topic Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

forloines — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 15:18:53 GMT

Brand NEW to any sort of Photography, let alone the Canon EOS 7D-Indoor Sports without flash issue.

Hello!

I'm new to photography. Normally, I use 'Auto' everything when I take pictures of indoor sports for a HS cheerleading team, but someone got upset with the use of the flash.

I have a Canon EOS 7D. The only lens I have is: EFS 18-200mm 0.45m/1.5ft.

I am vaguely aware that the f/ should be lower to allow more light in, I think the lowest it goes is 4.5. Zooming in makes this worse.

What settings could I use to make this work without the flash. With the flash, everything's great.

Any constructive help for a "photography dummy" would be great. If I need a different lens, that would be 'ok', too.

Thank you!!

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

Waddizzle — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 15:43:54 GMT

Try setting the top dial to P mode. If you have not downloaded a copy of the Instruction Manual you can download it the link below.

https://www.usa.canon.com/support/p/eos-7d

When you purchase a used camera, it it highly advisable to reset the camera back to the factory defaults. This is an option in the menus when the top dial is set to P. Some menu items have their own reset function, like Custom Controls. So, I recommend that you go through all the menus and reset every menu item that has a reset. There are at least 4 or 5 of them.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

deebatman316 — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 17:10:08 GMT

Hello forloines welcome to the forums. The 7D is a great camera geared toward sports and wildlife photography. Now as far as your lens. You have what is known as a variable aperture lens. As you zoom in the widest open aperture will decrease. At 18mm your usable aperture range will be between F/3.5-22. Then at 200mm your usable aperture range will be between F/5.6-36. It is also recommended that you shoot with Image Stabilization (IS) on to avoid camera shake. Since you're new to photography I recommend that you watch a few videos on the exposure triangle and follow along with the videos. To better learn the relationship of each setting to find the best setting for your situation. Also Tv Mode is also best for freezing or showing action which works great for sports. Do you have a budget to spend on a new lens, if so how much. Most Telephoto lenses are designed for FULL FRAME cameras and cost a lot of money. Especially for lenses with fast apertures ie F/2.8 and for Image Stabilization (IS).

-Demetrius

EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM (Retired), EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM & EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM

EOS 40D (Retired) & 5D Mark IV

430EX III-RT, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

ebiggs1 — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 17:09:07 GMT

The camera is great. The lens, The only lens I have is: EFS 18-200mm 0.45m/1.5ft." is not. It is going to be very difficult to get good indoor sports shots with it.

Rule of thumb, never buy a zoom lens that is over the 1:3 zoom ratio. The "EFS 18-200mm 0.45m/1.5ft" is not only over that ratio but it shatters it!

That said and understood here is what you can do to get the best it can deliver. The three most important things in sports photography are location, location and number three is location. Where you shoot from is paramount. This brings us to number four and that is, know your sport. If you don't what is going on and/or what is about to happen forget it. You will never get good shots and that brings us back to location. Knowing puts you in the right spot at the right moment.

Number 5. Always shoot Raw format never, ever, jpg. And, use a good post editor. A favorite setting used by the best pro sports photographers is Av mode where you set an aperture, in your case select wide open. Use One shot not Ai-servo at first and rarely after that. Use Auto ISO, set an upper and lower limit that you can live with (more grian as it goes higher but less light is needed). Now with Av mode set up the 7D will determine the correct SS for the proper exposure. Using Raw and a post editor will allow for enhanced ability to adjust exposure, sometimes up to 4 or more stops. That is extremely important and valuable. So far all of this is free to do. It costs you nothing as Canon offers you for free the very good DPP4 as a post editor and Raw converter. Raw files basically do not save any other information besides exposure and focus. All that can be set in DPP4 or other good editor like Photoshop. However, all editors use the jpg settings to make the initial viewable image so keep that in mind. Raw images are not viewable themselves.

Last piece of advice that does cost you money is buy a better lens. This is your weakest link. Good news is almost any lens will be better. Of course the very best for indoor sports is probably one of the 70-200mm f2.8 constant aperture lenses but they can be very expensive. My own personal lens combo for indoor sports is my ef 24-70mm f2.8L and Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 Sports lens on my 1DX. I have done the Corporate KC Challenge volleyball games and was allowed courtside. I used my ef 50mm f1.2L and ef 85mm f1.2L. Notice all are fast aperture lenses.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

normadel — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 20:29:50 GMT

"Number 5. Always shoot Raw format never, ever, jpg."

You are giving this advice to someone who hasn't a clue about photography? Wow.

Give forloines a break and let him learn how to take a picture, view it, and MAYBE print it.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

forloines — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 20:58:00 GMT

So, this?

[Commercial link removed per forum guidelines and replaced with screenshot to facilitate discussion.]

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

forloines — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 20:59:09 GMT

Or this one?

[Commercial link removed per forum guidelines and replaced with screenshot to facilitate discussion.]

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

deebatman316 — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 21:30:56 GMT

The lenses you posted are VERY good lenses I own both. When purchasing lenses you should look for a lens ONLY not a kit with filters and other accessories. Also ONLY purchase gear from a REPUTABLE website or store such as B&H Photo, Adorama, Canon Online Store. Amazon and Ebay ARE NOT REPUTABLE places to buy camera gear. If you shop from Amazon or Ebay you can't tell if the seller is selling you U.S. gear. If you get international gear also known as GRAY MARKET and if it breaks Canon WILL NOT WARRANTY IT OR REPAIR IT. So ALWAYS shop from Canon Authorized Dealers. The 24-70mm will have an angle of view 38-112mm and the 70-200mm will have an angle of view 112-320mm. The reason why the lenses act longer is due to your camera having an image sensor smaller than Full Frame/ 35mm Film. The 7D is an APS-C camera (22.5 x 15) with a 1.6x crop compared to Full Frame/ 35mm Frame (36 x 24).

-Demetrius

EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM (Retired), EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM & EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM

EOS 40D (Retired) & 5D Mark IV

430EX III-RT, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

rs-eos — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 14:06:34 GMT

When you cannot provide your own lighting, with the current minimum aperture on your lens, you'd need to use slower shutter speeds and/or higher ISO values. But for sports, you're trying to capture action, so shutter speeds will need to be faster. So the only thing you or the camera can do is to set ISO to very high values which lead to noisy images.

As others mentioned, your lens here is the limitation.

For indoor sports, I use an EF 135mm f/2. That would let in anywhere from 3 to 8 times the light of your current lens. Letting you keep shutter speeds higher and reducing ISO for cleaner images.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

johnrmoyer — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 15:48:57 GMT

I have found this very helpful: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm I hope you might find some of this helpful.

Also, as others have written, set the camera to record raw CR2 files and I prefer to have the camera record both raw and jpeg. The jpeg allows me to quickly see the choices that the camera made. Also, as others have suggested, Av mode might be better than fully automatic.

As others have said, the free download of the Canon Digital Photo Professional (DPP) program is a good idea. DPP enables changing white balance, brightness, noise reduction, sharpness, and digital lens optimizer after the photo is made. I guess that the digital lens optimizer together with noise reduction will improve the photos.

https://cam.start.canon/en/S002/manual/html/UG-04_EditImage_0040.html

https://cam.start.canon/en/S002/manual/html/index.html

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

ebiggs1 — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 15:49:26 GMT

Number 5 is the correct answer to the OP's question to, "What settings could I use to make this work without the flash." Whether you like it or not is not germane to the advice. Perhaps a focus on the topic and not me would be helpful.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

ebiggs1 — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 15:52:06 GMT

"With the flash, everything's great."

At any and all of the indoor sporting events I have shot in the past 40+ years, using a flash is going to get you an invite to leave and not come back.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

ebiggs1 — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 16:16:35 GMT

"If you shop from Amazon or Ebay you can't tell if the seller is selling you U.S. gear."

This is very true and very unknown by most people because most Amazon stuff isn't like photography gear purchases. Amazon is a fully authorized Canon USA retailer. Any Canon gear purchased directly from Amazon will be fine. The trick is you must read all the "fine print" on any web page you are considering because some or most of the Amazon Marketplace stores are not Canon USA dealers. Also good advice never, never buy a lens or camera that comes in a huge package or kit of junk.

As to ebay the same thing rings true but it is ever more difficult to tell if it is Canon USA or not. I know some top retail stores do sell on ebay and that would be fine. If you are not certain don't do it. Go to one of the recommended places which is not limited to list above as there are lots of good Canon USA resources. You may have a local camera shop or Best Buy or Costco, etc. Hands on is worth something! The key is making sure it is Canon USA authorized gear.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

Stephen — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 16:31:01 GMT

We tell people when buying from Amazon to make sure it's very specifically marked as "sold and shipped by Amazon," otherwise, you're likely buying from a third party, which is not an Authorized Canon Dealer.

You can find all of the Authorized Dealers on our site: https://www.usa.canon.com/contact-us/where-to-buy

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

deebatman316 — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 16:31:54 GMT

Thanks for the correction about Amazon @ebiggs1. It was always mentioned in the forum to avoid using Amazon. As for the Canon Authorized Dealers. I was just listing a few references for the OP.

-Demetrius

EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM (Retired), EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM & EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM

EOS 40D (Retired) & 5D Mark IV

430EX III-RT, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

ebiggs1 — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 16:59:35 GMT

Demetrius, no thank you because you were the one that spotted it. I didn't. Amazon is such a loved and shopped store so most folks don't even consider where the stuff comes from. And in most cases it probably doesn't matter. In this case it does.

And further it isn't that Canon USA won't fix the gear even if the customer pays for the repair, they may not be able to fix it at all. They may not have the correct part or FW, etc. And if Canon USA can't give the repair a complete 100% guarantee they will decline to do it at all.

I have seen Canon USA bend over backwards to help even when they were not required to. But I would not count on their good nature to please customers, who are not theirs, just because it says Canon on the label.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:42:13 GMT

@forloines wrote:
Brand NEW to any sort of Photography, let alone the Canon EOS 7D-Indoor Sports without flash issue.
Hello!
I'm new to photography. Normally, I use 'Auto' everything when I take pictures of indoor sports for a HS cheerleading team, but someone got upset with the use of the flash.
I have a Canon EOS 7D. The only lens I have is: EFS 18-200mm 0.45m/1.5ft.
I am vaguely aware that the f/ should be lower to allow more light in, I think the lowest it goes is 4.5. Zooming in makes this worse.
What settings could I use to make this work without the flash. With the flash, everything's great.
Any constructive help for a "photography dummy" would be great. If I need a different lens, that would be 'ok', too.
Thank you!!

Where do you expect to be when you are doing a shoot? Your location should dictate what range of focal lengths would be most useful for any type of action photography.

Flashes and strobes are especially bad because they can temporarily blind the athlete, leading to an accidental injury.

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

forloines — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 18:04:07 GMT

I take the picture for the Varsity and JV Cheerleaders (my daughter is one of them) at the Basketball Games. They have an upper deck in the gym, which is where I am most of the time. The pictures don't have to be "Pro", but I'd like them to be nice. In the past, I simply used my Camera Phone, but the further away cheerleaders were "grainy", at best.

They won't ask me to leave, but I also (now) know they don't want me to use a flash, either - so I don't (anymore).

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

deebatman316 — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 18:18:19 GMT

What focal lengths do you use the most with your current 18-200mm lens. Before we recommend the 24-70mm F/2.8, 70-200mm F/2.8 or any other lenses. As @Waddizzle pointed out flash photography is usually prohibited at sporting events. That's why it was recommended that you look into a fast CONSTANT aperture lens with IMAGE STABILIZATION (IS).

-Demetrius

EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II USM, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM (Retired), EF 50 F/1.8 STM, EF 85mm F/1.8 USM & EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS III USM

EOS 40D (Retired) & 5D Mark IV

430EX III-RT, 470EX-AI & 600EX II-RT

Re: EOS 7D Indoor Sports Photography with No Flash

forloines — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 18:21:27 GMT

I am currently looking at obtaining the Canon DF 70-200mm f/2.8L is II USM Lens.

I don't always have to zoom all the way out to get the furthest cheerleaders, but with my current lens, and not zooming in at all - I get very dark pictures.