topic Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:52:34 GMT

Hi all,

Ever since I got my Canon R6, Flickr won't display lensmaker information in case 3rd party lenses are attached. I see this:

while I see this on Flickr when the picture was taken with a Canon 6D:

Flickr only shows what is present in the file, so I checked Lightroom, and I see that in case of 3rd party lenses (in this case a 135 apo sonnar) that no lensmaker info is shown, only the focal length on the R6:

In case of a picture taken with the 6D, I do see the lensinformation with all my Zeiss lenses:

When I attach Canon lenses (16-35, 70-200, 100-400 etc) to the R6, it works fine:
Flickr:

Lightroom:

So I don't think creating a ticket at Flickr makes sense, since it is already missing in the Lightroom library.

After that, I thought it was Adobe reading the wrong metadata fields from the camera, but I have been using LR for ages, and it doesn't matter which version of LR I use (of course I always keep it up to date), because I don't have this problem when using the 6D.

So the camera seems the only common denominator. I use firmware 1.4.0 on the R6 due to the AF-issues in later versions (hesitant to try 1.6.0). My guess is that Canon does not fill the proper metadata fields in-camera in case of 3rd party lenses. It works perfectly fine when a Canon lens is attached, so the camera does fill metadata fields.

At least the following 2 threads confirm what I have:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/full-lens-information-does-not-appear-in-lightroom-metadata/m-p/12838979#M268763

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/how-to-fix-lens-metadata-with-lightroom/td-p/8781432

and both say it is a Canon bug....With the way Canon is keeping everything close to the chest nowadays, "forbidding" 3rd party lensmakers to use the RF-mount, I would not be surprised if Canon decided not to fill the lensmaker-details in the correct metadata fields in-camera in case the lens is non-Canon....But of course that is speculation...

Does anyone experience the same issue and maybe have a solution, or must the solution indeed come from Canon?

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Peter — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 15:34:50 GMT

What is Exiv2 or Exiftool reporting?

Should be LensType with the nr 33 for your lens.

Carl Zeiss Apo-Sonnar T* 135mm f/2 ZE

Lens recognition is hard because of different tags. Even Canon lenses are hard to recognize. For example Canon EF 75-300. There are many versions but in Exif the only difference you will know is if it is USM or not. Good luck creating lens correction profiles for those lenses.

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

shadowsports — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 19:27:31 GMT

Greetings,

Before we get into this conversation, can you tell us what EF to RF adapter you are using? If its not Canon, that alone might be the cause. (longshot) but you never know.

Interesting topic, but I'm not surprised. Canon doesn't really have any reason to ensure compliance with 3rd party equipment, and as you pointed out, its works perfectly with Canon glass. There were recently a few topics on this with some voicing their dissatisfaction with Canon and "threatening" to abandon ship. (Not saying you are)

That's a personal choice. If they want to walk away from Canon's superior color science (my opinion there), they may do so. Canon designs a camera system. Body and lenses that work in symmetry. Do they want to sell you lenses too, sure. I have come to appreciate this now. RF is still in its infancy. People have already speculated that Canon might open up 3rd party lens inclusion to the R platform at some point, some day.. I guess we'll see.

I have used many 3rd party lenses with my older Canon gear and had fantastic results. I use DxO for my post and it supports Canon + 3rd party lenses. I have a Canon Control Ring. I haven't pumped anything into DPP recently to see what lens data it shows. Usually, it just states no optics module for this lens. Previously, DxO says hey this looks like a new lens, you want to download an optics module for it? At this point, The only lens I own that isn't supported is my 12mm Rokinon Fisheye and I can do my own lens optimizations for it when needed. I have a few Sigma lenses also, but all of these are supported in DxO. I have some commitments today, but tomorrow I'll put one on my R5 C and see what metadata it outputs.

I understand your reasoning for wanting to use your Zeiss equipment. Its what got me using Sigma with my last body. I wanted IS and the Canon equivalent didn't have it. Thats not the case today. I'm only using Canon gear. If the 100~500 worked below 300mm with a 1.4x TC, I'd be done lens wise. I am holding out until next June for Canon to make another RF super zoom in this range without the limitation. I'm hopeful, but we'll see. The Sigma 600c with adapter and TC is pretty unwieldy.

Maybe someone else can post their experience here also.

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 16:15:16 GMT

I don't need lens correction profiles: they are already in place in Lightroom. I was purely referring to the lensmake/lenstype not being present in Lightroom (and thus not in Flickr). I don't get the EXIFtoolGUI working, it shouts something about an error EXIFTOOL NOT FOUND, while I do have it installed...

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 16:21:32 GMT

It is the original Canon EF-RF adapter, so no worries there. Lightroom does show lensinfo in case of Canon EF-lenses like EF 70-200 and EF 16-35 (using the adapter of course).

Actually, in 2018 I wanted to "abandon ship", but the EOS-R was a reminder for me to wait on a more mature version, which I found in the R6. But the lenses I would like to use are not in RF-mount (yet), and I'm not so sure they will be...So I am close to abandoning ship yet again...

I find the RF-L lenses a) too expensive and b) they don't provide the rendering I so much desire (Voigtlander and Zeiss do).

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Peter — Wed, 23 Nov 2022 12:53:46 GMT

ExiftoolGUI is using Exiftool. Without Exiftool, ExiftoolGUI will not work. I use Exiftool only without ExiftoolGUI, but if you want to use ExiftoolGUI together with Exiftool, you find howto here

Perhaps the easiest thing you can do is to upload some raw samples to a filehost and put the link here.

One raw file with R6+Zeiss, one with R6+Canon lens and one raw file with 6D +Zeiss.

The print screen above is from R5 that I found at Flickr. Exif.Photo.LensModel only gives 135 mm, but there are other tags to use. Too bad the uploader or Flickr removed the other tags. You see all the lens tags below when the user or Flickr don't cripple Exif.

Sample of lens tags from R5

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Waddizzle — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 19:21:42 GMT

Two questions.

How is the Canon DPP4 app reporting your Zeiss lenses?

How are other third party brands being reported by DPP4 and your third party apps?

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

shadowsports — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 19:35:43 GMT

@Waddizzlewrote:
Two questions.
How is the Canon DPP4 app reporting your Zeiss lenses?
How are other third party brands being reported by DPP4 and your third party apps?

A most excellent question Waddizzle. 👍

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:23:08 GMT

hi Waddizzle,

I have no other 3rd pary lenses, but a friend of mine uses adapted Sigma EF-mount lenses and has the same issues.

About DPP4, I never use it, but I have installed it, but I don't think it will help me as only Canon lenses show lens info. With Zeiss lenses, it only shows focal length. In DPP4 it even does not show Zeiss lensinfo with the 6D, while in Lightroom/Flickr it does show Zeiss lensinfo...

Left: 6D + Zeiss 135 apo sonnar (on Flickr and Lightroom show the correct lensinfo)
Middle: R6 + 135 apo sonnar
Right: R6 + EF-100-400 II

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:28:28 GMT

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your input. I've been busy with work, but I will come back to your message!

But it seems I was looking in the right direction: different metadata fields/tags are used in case of zeiss lenses because Canon does not put it in the Exif.CanonC tags but in the Exif.Photo tags....

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

johnrmoyer — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:36:38 GMT

I use exiftool from a command line on both Debian Linux and macOS. I do not have the latest version, but this is what it reports on my iMac. As others have mentioned, the lens identifier appears to be in multiple locations and appears to be difficult to interpret. One new one is "[MakerNotes:Image] RF Lens Type : n/a", but I do not have any RF lenses. Sometimes in some fields my Canon lens is identified as a Tamron. I think this is a difficult problem to identify a lens from what the camera reports since the lens might tell a lie to the camera.

exiftool -"*lens*" -G0:2 /Users/jrm/photos/2022Nov10/*.CR3

======== /Users/jrm/photos/2022Nov10/IMG_1331.CR3
[EXIF:Image] Lens Info : 200-800mm f/0
[EXIF:Image] Lens Serial Number : 6220003595
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Type : Tamron 100-400mm f/4.5-6.3 Di VC USD A035E + 2x
[MakerNotes:Image] RF Lens Type : n/a
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Model : EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM +2x III
[MakerNotes:Camera] Shutter Release Without Lens: Enable
[MakerNotes:Camera] Retract Lens On Power Off : Enable
[MakerNotes:Camera] USM Lens Electronic MF : Disable After AF
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Drive When AF Impossible: Continue Focus Search
[Composite:Camera] Lens : 200.0 - 800.0 mm
[Composite:Camera] Lens ID : Tamron 100-400mm f/4.5-6.3 Di VC USD A035E + 2x
[Composite:Camera] Lens : 200.0 - 800.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 199.7 - 798.8 mm)
======== /Users/jrm/photos/2022Nov10/IMG_1474.CR3
[EXIF:Image] Lens Info : 140-560mm f/0
[EXIF:Image] Lens Serial Number : 6220003595
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Type : Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM + 1.4x or Tamron Lens
[MakerNotes:Image] RF Lens Type : n/a
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Model : EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM +1.4x III
[MakerNotes:Camera] Shutter Release Without Lens: Enable
[MakerNotes:Camera] Retract Lens On Power Off : Enable
[MakerNotes:Camera] USM Lens Electronic MF : Disable After AF
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Drive When AF Impossible: Continue Focus Search
[Composite:Camera] Lens : 140.0 - 560.0 mm
[Composite:Camera] Lens ID : Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM + 1.4x
[Composite:Camera] Lens : 140.0 - 560.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 139.8 - 559.2 mm)

https://exiftool.org/ has the download

https://exiftool.org/history.html has the change history.

Contributing raw files might result in the lens identifications being improved if the Camera does in fact know what lens is attached.

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Waddizzle — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 20:22:45 GMT

What lens does the camera report during Image Playback?

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Peter — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:02:46 GMT

@johnrmoyerwrote:
Sometimes in some fields my Canon lens is identified as a Tamron. does in fact know what lens is attached.

Because LensType tag is a number and not written in plain language. Tamron/Sigma use the same numbers. Your LensType nr should be 749 but I am not sure because below it says 2x (and 2x II because they share the same optics). Not 2x III.

LensType nr 749

Without extender your LensType nr is 747

Because I know darktable and because it is possible to read the source code I can tell you that darktable starts with:

Exif.CanonCs.LensType
Exif.Canon.LensModel
Exif.Photo.LensModel

Some problems with this will be:

when Canon uses the same LensType for different lenses (75-300, 75-300 II and 75-300 III) or for different combinations (300/2.8L IS USM, 300/2.8L IS USM+1.4x or 300/2.8L IS USM+2x III).
when third-party makers use the same LensType as Canon.

LensType nr for Canon EF 300/2.8L IS USM is 142. Also 300/2.8L IS USM+1.4x and 300/2.8L IS USM+2x III share the same LensType nr 142.

The solution is to jump to the next tag, Exif.Canon.LensModel, because for my 6D, it has the right lens name and extenders there. But my D30 only has LensType tag and not Exif.Canon.LensModel or Exif.Photo.LensModel and will not give me the right combinations of extenders for this lens...

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

johnrmoyer — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:58:39 GMT

For Canon lenses on recent Canon cameras, the best place to look for the lens name is what exiftool calls "LensModel" instead of "LensType". For my very old Powershot A710 is, there is no lens model information in the jpg and "LensType" is 65535 which looks like a placeholder value or maybe is interpreted as negative one to indicate the built in lens, but for my Rebel T1i the LensModel identifies the lens. LensModel is a string and not a number like LensType. It may be necessary to use the Canon EOS Utility to load the lens information into the camera for the camera to be able to write the LensModel maker tag.

"exiftool -lensmodel -G0:2 /Users/jrm/photos/2022Nov10/IMG_1331.CR3
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Model : EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM +2x III"

"exiftool -lensmodel -G0:2 /Users/jrm/photos/2022Nov10/IMG_1474.CR3
[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Model : EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM +1.4x III"

"[MakerNotes:Camera] Lens Model : EF-S55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS
======== ../2012Oct21/IMG_3678.CR2
"

I speculate that Canon DPP software uses the LensModel string when choosing the parameters for "digital lens optimizer", but I do not know this. I arrived at this speculation because Canon DPP seems to be better at mitigating small aperture diffraction blur than doe the GMIC Richardson/Lucy deconvolution. It seems plausible to me that knowledge of aperture shape would permit a better deconvolution than an assumption that it is circular.

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:03:48 GMT

@Peter, @ Waddizzle

I just took 4 shots:

1: _IMG.3306.CR3 = R6 + Zeiss 135 apo sonnar
2: _IMG.3307.CR3 = R6 + Canon 70-200
3: _IMG.3309.CR2 = 6D + Zeiss 135 apo sonnar
4: _IMG.3308.CR2 = 6D + Canon 70-200

See below:
DPP 4 vs Lightroom EXIF
I can conclude the following:

- In Lightroom, the lensinfo shows correctly for the following combo's: 6D+canon, 6D+Zeiss, R6+canon
- In DPP 4.16, the lensinfo shows correctly for the following combo's: 6D+canon, R6+canon
- On Flickr, the lensinfo shows correctly for the following combo's: 6D+canon, 6D+Zeiss, R6+canon

At least Lightroom is aligned with Flickr.

My assumption is that DPP 4.16 will be aligned with exif tool. But I have to get ExifTool+ExifGUI working first.

I also checked what I see in-camera (in case of the R6, because the 6D does not show lensinfo when playbacking images).
R6 + Zeiss 135 apo sonnar:

R6 + Canon 70-200:

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Peter — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:52:45 GMT

Any of those raw files to share?

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Peter — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:57:44 GMT

My findings last year about the lens tags, lenses and cameras https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1eXnvWOc6b83kgKKueS118Rxj_tTzA_9slVdW9mU2yRI/htmlview

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 14:13:41 GMT

Sure:

https://easyupload.io/m/m9jtye

Pass = lensexif

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Peter — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 15:40:48 GMT

Seems the only thing that tells us that this is Carl Zeiss Apo-Sonnar T* 135mm f/2 ZE is the LensType nr. Exiv2 has a few lenses in the database at LensType nr 33. It seems like Canon didn't use nr 33 at all.

Only one is 135mm, so it is easy for exiv2 to pick the right lens. I didn't need to use its configuration file.

As an explanation to the printscreen below, when using -pv instead of -pt exiv2 will show the LensType nr instead of the name in its database. "Ej tillgängligt" is in English "not available", so it has no meaning in this case.

darktable uses exiv2 for lens identification.

As for your original question, this is possible for Adobe to solve, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't know why Adobe is able to pick the right lens for 6D.

Re: Zeiss lensinfo on Flickr and Lightroom not present with Canon R6, but present with Canon 6D

Deathchant — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 15:44:59 GMT

I followed your youtube video and I got EXIFtool working. I don't know if Lightroom uses the same exiv2 as Darktable in order to manipulate it as you did in your video...

Looking at the R6+135 apo image (_IMG.3306.CR3):

EXIF-tab:

Maker-tab, LensType:

Maker-tab, LensModel:

When I check the option SHOW TAG VALUES AS NUMBERS, I see indeed LensType = 33.

But more lenstypes are under 33:

{33, "Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f/2 SLII Aspherical"},
{33, "Voigtlander Color Skopar 20mm f/3.5 SLII Aspherical"}, // 1
{33, "Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SLII Close Focus"}, // 2
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 15mm f/2.8 ZE"}, // 3
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 18mm f/3.5 ZE"}, // 4
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 21mm f/2.8 ZE"}, // 5
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 25mm f/2 ZE"}, // 6
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 28mm f/2 ZE"}, // 7
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm f/2 ZE"}, // 8
{33, "Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm f/1.4 ZE"}, // 9
{33, "Carl Zeiss Planar T* 50mm f/1.4 ZE"}, // 10
{33, "Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50mm f/2 ZE"}, // 11
{33, "Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100mm f/2 ZE"}, // 12
{33, "Carl Zeiss Apo-Sonnar T* 135mm f/2 ZE"}, // 13

Seems like LensTagger LR-plugin is a cumbersome but workable solution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCGTyK3GwJU