topic Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 04:09:26 GMT

I would like to learn more about photography. I’ve used point and shoot (film and digital) cameras in the past but I’ve been exclusively using my iPhone for the past 7 years. I’ve mostly convinced myself to buy a Rebel t7i, as the $775 price for camera + kit lens that I see fits my budget well. My plan is to learn on the Rebel and kit lens for as many years as I can and buy EF or EF-S lenses if I need them. If I feel the need to upgrade the camera in the future, I’ll likely buy a Canon R series to continue using any EF lenses I’ve accumulated.

Have I missed something important? Should I be considering a mirrorless option more strongly? I’ll probably keep whatever I buy for 5+ years. If it matters, I’ll primarily take pictures of family, urban life (buildings, architectural features, people) and landscapes. I don’t anticipate shooting a lot of video.

Edit 11/1: I appreciate the replies I've received. I've been doing my best to understand the equipment and what it does and ignore marketing hype.

Edit 11/3: For anyone following this thread I decided the solution for me was to look for a mirrorless option. While I agree that someone can learn photography on any camera, I don't currently have any cameras or lenses so it makes sense to me to choose an R series camera as my first. Thank you to all who offered their helpful opinions.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

Waddizzle — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 21:14:12 GMT

I think that price is a BIT on the high side. The Canon Online Refurbished Store is selling the T8i for less than that.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-rebel-t8i-ef-s-18-55mm-f-4-5-6-is-stm-kit

It even comes with a one year warranty from Canon USA.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 21:25:57 GMT

Thanks for the link. I am not familiar with buying refurbished gear, though I do understand that there is an identical to retail warranty from Canon. Is the rest of my plan sound?

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

Tronhard — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 21:37:30 GMT

Hi and welcome to the forum:

It is still absolutely fine to learn on a DSLR, and the model you have should be a good platform - depending upon your budget. I cannot comment on price as I don't live in the US.

There are two major components to good photography:

First the control over the amount of light entering the camera to get the correct exposure.
This uses three components that used in combination have significant impacts on the way the subject is displayed:
Shutter: decides how long light is presented to the sensor, and is used to control movement of both the camera and the subject. Slow shutter speed allows blurring to occur to show movement, and can be used to creative effect by moving the camera. Fast shutter can freeze movement.
Aperture: is the size of a (usually) variable hole in the lens that dictates the volume of light entering the camera. A big aperture will flood light while a small one does the opposite - just like a tap. The effect it has is to decide what is in focus - a small aperture will show a lot of objects at varying distance from the camera to appear sharp, e.g. for landscape photography; while large hole will show a much smaller range (what is called Depth of Field) and allow us to isolate a subject: such as for a portrait.
ISO (it's a word not an acronym BTW). is a measure of the amplification of the sensitivity (aka Gain) of a sensor. The great the ISO the more the sensor is inclined to react to small amounts of light - just like we would turn up a quiet music track by winding up the volume. The lower the ISO, the less sensitive the sensor and the more light delivered (either by a larger aperture or slower shutter speed or both) to get the right amount of light for the correct exposure.

This takes some time to get your head around, but mastering the three is a key to controlling the camera and getting creative images.

The other aspect of photography to learn is composition.

That is, what you want to include in an image, and where and how it is placed to get the effect the photographer wants. This is definitely an art and takes time and practice, plus the study of great artists: particularly painters and photographers.

Learning photography has great benefits:
1. It teaches you to actively observe - you will be far more sensitive to your surrounding because you are always looking for an image.
2. It uses the left and right brain: there is a technical and artistic component to photography, and that is a great balance.
3. It keeps you active - you won't get images sitting on a couch, so you need to go look for them. Also, if you shoot with heavy lenses, such as for some kinds of wildlife, you will learn to maintain physical strength and endurance.

So, by all means look to the DSLR you mention, but go out and learn and practise. You can attend courses, join a society, go on You Tube and watch courses, and there are excellent books. A combination of this is a good idea, but depends on your own learning style. The other thing to do is take lots and lots of photos and be prepared to look at them critically.

I have taught photography for many years. If I can help remotely (I live in NZ), I am happy to engage for free - I have some courses on both the control and creative aspects designed for distance learning. If you want to connect, just PM me. As a retired photographer, it's how I like to give back.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

shadowsports — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 21:35:45 GMT

[EDIT]

Whoops.. late post.

-----------------------------------------------

Hi,

You can learn the fundamentals on a DSLR.

If your budget is under $1k, the T8i kit is a better option. Refurb directly from Canon is $719

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-rebel-t8i-ef-s-18-55mm-f-4-5-6-is-stm-kit

If it were me, first time camera buyer, I'd go mirrorless. Costs just a little bit more, but will provide a higher return on investment in the long run. Its up to you. DSLR equipment will continue to drop in price and become more scarce. MILC (mirrorless) is here to stay. Investing in older EF glass today is not as wise a value proposition as it was previously. Yes there is still a market for it, but 5 yrs from now, it will be a different story. Whereas mirrorless will be mature and continuing to be refined.

Buying a DSLR today is something you need to be prepared to walk away from. That ship has sailed (as others have said). Mirrorless is still in its infancy comparatively. It has a long road ahead.

Don't let me dissuade you from buying a DSLR. You'll love it and will have years of learning and happy memories. Just understand that manufacturers have already started to shift and move away from this technology.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 22:27:30 GMT

I realize that DSLRs aren't being made anymore and will go away eventually, but I'm not following your logic for how buying a mirrorless camera today gives a higher ROI. If I buy 1 or 2 EF lenses over the next few years, I can use those lenses in the future on a Canon R series camera. I'm hesitant about buying an R series mirrorless today because I don't know what features are important to me in a camera, and I also don't know if I'd want a full frame or crop sensor. Also, I haven't seen great reviews about the Canon M series, and the EF-M lenses aren't compatible with anything. Have I misunderstood something?

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 03:51:13 GMT

@FilmCanister wrote:

* "I realize that DSLRs aren't being made anymore and will go away eventually, but I'm not following your logic for how buying a mirrorless camera today gives a higher ROI".
** "If I buy 1 or 2 EF lenses over the next few years, I can use those lenses in the future on a Canon R series camera."
*** "I'm hesitant about buying an R series mirrorless today because I don't know what features are important to me in a camera, and I also don't know if I'd want a full frame or crop sensor."
**** "Also, I haven't seen great reviews about the Canon M series, and the EF-M lenses aren't compatible with anything. Have I misunderstood something?"

* My way of looking at it is you are saving money by not buying gear you will soon sale or not use for long (See next response). Image quality will also be a ROI, IMO.

** Yes, you can. But trust me, they don't compare to native RF, IMHO. I have a large stable of EF glass, both L and non L and it didn't take long for me to swap out EF for RF, L and non L, for my MILCs. I have quite a few Rebels, XDxx DSLRs and the R5 and R6.

*** My first creative endeavor as a young boy was the guitar. My grandpa bought me a cheap Kay electric. Even with it's crappy fretboard and fat somewhat warped neck, I learned to play and got pretty good at it. Then I was able to get a Gibson Firebird with a Marshal amp. That system opened up a new world for me as a musician and I soon found myself on stage. Although I had a very good, but short 10 year career in music, I can only imagine the "jump start" I would have got if I would have had better equipment. I have found cameras and photography to be comparable. Good equipment will open up your creativity. Going from Rebels to XDxx DSLRs with EF glass expanded my creativity and even farther going to the R5 and RF glass. As you move up im camera and lens, image quality improves and you find you can get those shots that you dream about 🙂

**** Nope 😎

Newton

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

shadowsports — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 20:39:52 GMT

@Film Canister,

As I said earlier, please do not let me dissuade you from purchasing a DSLR. Yes, you can adapt EF glass to R (mirrorless) body's.

If you do decide to go mirrorless however, do not buy an EF-M Camera. Its lenses cannot be adapted to DSLR, APS-C or other mirrorless formats.

There are 4 mirrorless formats to consider.

RF (Full Frame mirrorless)

RF-S (APS-C mirrorless)

EF (Full Frame DSLR)

EF-S (APS-C DSLR)

~~EF-M (Don't do it)~~

EF and EF-S glass can be adapted to R bodies. RF (mirrorless glass) will not work on a EF Mount DSLR or APS-C DSLR. There are pros and cons to each. You have some reading to do. 🙂

Here are 3 article to start with:

Lens Differences

Lenses2

DSLR vs mirrorless - Canon Europe (canon-europe.com)

Spend some time here learning. Ask questions. All here can help.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

normadel — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 17:11:47 GMT

To answer your original question simply, OF COURSE you can learn on a DSLR. All of the principles of photography and digital photography are the same, and you can absolutely transfer all the knowledge and skills you add.

I am a firm believer in avoiding latest technology when older stuff will do all you want to do for the foreseeable future. And if cost is an issue (as it is for lots of us, despite what some think it should be), you can use EF and EFS lenses on the R-series mirrorless cameras, if and when you think you have outgrown the "old" way. They are also widely available on the used market. The DSLR IS NOT OBSOLETE!!!

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 19:10:09 GMT

Thanks for the lens information. My budget allows me to buy the Rebel mentioned in my post or an SL3. If a mirrorless is really that different of an experience, my budget only allows for an M50 Mark II. However, I have read that the M series cameras that use the EF-M lenses are likely to be discontinued. In any case, the EF-M lenses aren't compatible with anything.

While I think that something like the R10 might be the long term "better" option for me, I haven't been able to justify spending the additional money right now. I'm trying to figure out if the mirrorless advantages are anything that would be noticed by someone less experienced with photography and it sounds like the answer is either "no" or "yes, but you'll still be able to get great pictures with a DSLR."

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 19:13:29 GMT

Thanks, I'm sure I'll be able to learn plenty with a DSLR, but I was worried that I was missing out on something by avoiding the mirrorless option. There is a lot of marketing hype out there that I've been trying to wade through. Half of the mirrorless camera reviews I read seem to be aimed at people who want to make YouTube videos anyway.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

normadel — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 19:19:59 GMT

Camera makers thrive on people who fear they're missing out on something if they don't have the latest and "best". So do smartphone makers, car makers, appliance makers and every other kind of maker.

No matter what camera you get and use, you will think you are missing out on something, so please don't succumb to it. Enjoy what you have, learn it, and only upgrade when there's REALLY something you need.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

Waddizzle — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 21:40:22 GMT

If you find the deal for the Refurbished T8i, then I suggest you do not wait too long to pull the trigger. Many listed are items are not always in stock, this hot potato is one of them.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

shadowsports — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 21:45:09 GMT

@FilmCanister,

You are correct about EF-M format cameras. They are already on their way out. So are DSLRs to some extent, but they have a much larger following and it will be some time before they are gone. Like what normadel referred to above.

We want to remain sensitive to your budget, so the T8i kit we referenced above will be a great starter camera for you. Do be aware that APS-C body's have smaller image sensors. So when paired with a full frame EF lens, the field of view (FOV) is more narrow, but the focal length remains the same. APS-C lenses on the other hand have a smaller image circle designed specifically for the smaller sensor. The goal here is to empower you with as much information as possible so you can make an informed decision.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

krahe — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 15:35:42 GMT

About six months ago I was right where you're at. I came very close to pulling the trigger on getting a T8i. But then I decided to look a little closer at the differences between a DSLR and a mirrorless, and found that auto-focus works differently on a DSLR when you're using the viewfinder vs. a live view screen. That pushed me into a mirrorless - specifically the M50 Mark II - as I wanted to use the best auto-focus mechanism available regardless of what screen I was using to take the shot. Since then it's become even more apparent that the center of gravity in the market is quickly shifting from DSLR to mirrorless, so I believe I've made the right choice. I have four EF-M lenses plus an EF lens that I use with an adapter.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

amfoto1 — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 16:28:11 GMT

@FilmCanister wrote:.If it matters, I’ll primarily take pictures of family, urban life (buildings, architectural features, people) and landscapes. I don’t anticipate shooting a lot of video.

It matters a lot, what you plan to shoot. And for those types of subjects you would be just fine with a DSLR.

That said, the previous recommendation to consider refurbished is good. In the US Canon refurbished are only available via the Canon USA website. Those can be a really good deal. I've bought a couple items from them and the only difference from new that I could see was that they box was plain cardboard, rather than the fancier graphics. Aside from that and the money I saved, everything else about the items I bought was EXACTLY like buying brand new! It did take about a week or 10 days to receive the items, if I recall correctly.

Something to consider... for the type of photography you plan to do a 24MP T8i would be fine and the EF-S 18-55mm lens can serve most purposes. You eventually may want an EF 50mm f/1.8 STM for family portraits and/or an EF-S 10-18mm IS STM for landscape photography, but the kit lens will get you started.

Whatever lens you get, also buy the lens hood for it. That's the best physical protection for it while out shooting and a lens hood can only improve your images as well. Just be careful to get the correct, matched hood for any lens that you get (for example, there have been something like six different Canon EF-S 18-55mm lenses, and I don't think they all use the same lens hood).]

One of the advantages of a Canon DSLR is that they have been selling lenses to fit them for 30+ years, so there are literally millions of them around on the used market. While there can be some risk buying used, with reasonable care such as only buying from reputable dealers who back up what they sell, you can extend your kit without breaking the bank. As you know, with an adapter those EF and EF-S lenses can be use on an R-series mirrorless camera if you decide to upgrade to that type of camera sometime in the future. While they are excellent and innovative, there simply isn't the selection of RF lenses for mirrorless yet and the system is so new that there are almost none on the used market so far.

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2), EOS M5, some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

pxbradley1 — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 19:45:48 GMT

A lot of good information here. You can learn photography on any camera. It all depends on your budget. I race sailboats (well used too) and one of my partners said It's not always the boat.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

Tronhard — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 20:29:13 GMT

Exactly. The question I answered was

' Is it still allright to learn on a DSLR?

The answer is still yes. The rest boils down to budget, subject, output and commitment.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 01:15:00 GMT

Thank you, this was helpful information, especially the part about the kit lens. I'm glad to know that the T8i and kit lens will be adequate for what I hope to photograph. I am somewhat interested in the nifty fifty, but I'm not a fan of bokeh, and I understand that a 50 mm will make that more common. I plan to spend plenty of time with the kit lens first to figure out what I'm doing.

I also hadn't seen the recommendation about the lens hood, so thanks for that. I probably will buy refurbished from Canon since people seem to have good experiences with that and I'll be able to take my budget farther.

Re: Is it still ok to learn on a DSLR?

FilmCanister — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 01:20:38 GMT

I relate strongly to this comment. In the 90s, I bought a 70s era Buick with a Chevy engine that was my primary vehicle for 15+ years. My wife used to say that another person wouldn't have gotten the same experience out of the car.

I also saw one of your posts about being an engineer. I also have an engineering background and it seems that I'm questioning some of the hype around mirrorless more than the average person.