topic Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6 in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 17:42:06 GMT

I can shoot a static subject in static light using the High Speed Continuous drive mode on the R6, and the first two frames will be correctly exposed, but all subsequent frames will be overexposed.

Trying to figure out if there is a setting to keep the exposure automatically locked. I have it set for Center-weighted Average metering, and I have "AE lock metering after focus" set to locked, but this doesn’t seem to actually keep it locked when using Servo focus. Also, it's odd that it always jumps up in exposure and will stay there as long as I hold down the shutter.

I'm using Aperture priority and Auto ISO. For a static shot using High Speed Continuous drive mode and mechanical shutter, I get the following frame stats:

Frame 1: 1/320 F2.5 ISO 2500

Frame 2: 1/320 F2.5 ISO 2500

Frame 3: 1/250 F2.5 ISO 4000

Frame 4: 1/320 F2.5 ISO 5000

Frame 5 (and all subsequent frames): 1/320 F2.5 ISO 5000

I get it that it's an Auto ISO issue, but this does not occur if I set the focus to One Shot. It will hold the exact same exposure for as long as I hold the shutter. Wondering if there's a way to lock the exposure for as long as I have the shutter button held.

I'm not interested in using the AE Lock button to hold exposure as I shoot, even though this DOES fix the problem. I'm wondering if there is a menu setting that will accomplish the same thing for as long as I hold the shutter.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 22:46:33 GMT

“…. I get it that it's an Auto ISO issue, but this does not occur if I set the focus to One Shot. …”

How did you come to that conclusion? You have not stated which AF points, what Exposure Mode, which Shooting Mode, or which lens that you are using. The devil is in the details.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 22:52:58 GMT

I said that it was in Aperture priority. I said that it only occurred when set to Servo focus. Failed to mention face detection—so ALL focus points. It does not occur when I have One Shot focus, on Spot, using the center AF point.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:02:51 GMT

I did not bother to read the entire post. Way too many unknowns are in play here. What lens are you using? [Full stop]. What metering mode are you using?

Are you panning, or is the shot static? Your number one problem is allowing the camera to control more than one leg of the Exposure Triangle at the same time.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:25:45 GMT

Maybe it would be helpful if you did read my full post. I previously mentioned that I was using Center-weighted Average metering while shooting a "static subject in static light."

It happens with my Canon 50/1.2, Canon 85/1.2, Sigma 35/1.4 Art, Sigma 24-70/2.8 Art—all of my lenses. All mounted with the Canon Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R.

Literally the only change that occurs in settings between it locking exposure correctly and bouncing up after two shots is the focus servo mode.

I use Aperture Priority and Auto ISO as I'm a high-paced wedding shooter who frequently works in drastically changing light conditions, utilizing the wheel to dial in +/- exposure on the go. Using these exact settings with 5DII, 5DIV, and 6D bodies all work as expected. It's only on the R6 with High Speed Continuous and Servo focus that I'm having the issue.

I get it—you're a Legend here—but I would expect you to at least read my post in its entirety before telling me there are too many unknowns in play. I'm a 30-year wedding pro who shoots 450k+ images a year. I'm no newbie. I've eliminated just about every variable I can think of.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:29:53 GMT

I think your issue is with Center Weighted Average metering mode, which will always use the area around center AF point to meter the scene. I recommend that you use Evaluative Metering, and make sure that you have an active, locked AF point when the shutter fires.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:36:29 GMT

I tried it using Evaluative Metering—still happens. I've already established that it goes away when I use a locked AF point. Specifically, I'm trying to figure out why it's happening in Servo mode—which, to be frank—is the raison d'être for the R6.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:38:04 GMT

One Shot AF locks exposure when focus is locked, which usually occurs before the shutter fires.. AI Servo also locks exposure when focus is locked, which usually occurs when the shutter fires.

Again, use Evaluative Metering. Most the rationale people offer up for using another metering mode are actually very good reasons to use Evaluative Metering mode.

Evaluative Metering locks exposure at the locked AF point. Every other mode will lock exposure relative to the center AF point. In other words, you are focusing here and metering over there.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:47:22 GMT

Just tried it—again—using Evaluative, since you were so insistent. Still happens.

Simple shot of my desk. No moving subject, no changing light.

Frame 1: 1/250 F2.5 ISO 1250

Frame 2: 1/250 F2.5 ISO 1250

Frame 3 (and all subsequent frames): 1/320 F2.5 ISO 4000

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:49:22 GMT

“What exposure mode are you using?” I wanted to know what rationale you had for using Center Weighted Average when you are not using the Center AF point(s).

What frame rates are you using? You say “high speed” continuous, but how fast are you using? None of your lenses can focus much faster than 10-12 fps, if that fast. EF lenses have limits.

Have you used DPP or a LR plug-in to see where your locked AF point actually is when the shutter fired? If you do not have a locked AF point in Evaluative Mode, then the metering will be similar to Center Weighted Average.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Tronhard — Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:51:25 GMT

I think there is an argument Evaluative Metering, but much depends on the specifics. I shoot with single point servo auto focus and single point metering with back buttons for both. It's how I learnt a long time ago but, more significantly, it works for shooting subjects like birds in thick bush where the lighting is all over the place.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 00:06:44 GMT

I'm using the actual setting "High Speed Continuous," as opposed to "Low Speed" or "High Speed+". I'm guessing it's about 5-6 fps. This is occurring in a static shot—no changes in focus at all, even though it's actually in "Face+Tracking". Have not looked at metadata for focus points, but it's generally in the very center portion as I'm sitting here testing it.

Rationale for Center-Weighted Average is the fact that I shoot a lot of brides against bright windows. Using Center-Weighted usually gives a better starting point for exposure adjustments on the fly using the wheel. Evaluative usually gives me a stopped-down image to account for the backlighting. I'm happy to use whatever metering mode will work, but my problem appears to occur regardless of the mode I've chosen.

The whole thing is baffling. It seems as if it's continuing to meter after capturing 2 frames, and then locking for the remainder. Or it's just bouncing up a stop after 2 frames.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Tronhard — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 00:46:24 GMT

Hi Kevin, and welcome to the forum:

With respect, I am curious why you are reluctant to not use your back buttons for focus/metering.

It seems to me that your situation having a back-lit subject is a classic case for using spot metering so you can make sure that you are metering the bride's face (not under-exposing because of the backlight on a likely white dress). Since you say 'I'm happy to use whatever metering mode will work' it might be worth giving it a try.

BB focus lock with servo mode, works very well, considering your brides are not likely to be moving a lot. If I focus on the eye, press the back button and release, it then locks focus on that spot. If you think the subject will move, just hold your thumb on the BBF button track them. The following is a video by Canon Australia on setting up BBF as I use it:

If that does not suit you, then look at this video by Vanessa Joy, who is a Canon ambassador and highly-respected wedding photographer, I will point you to this one video, but it would be worth exploring her videos considering she is something of an expert in using the R-series gear for your genre.

and

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:07:49 GMT

I hear you, and I could give it a shot, but first can we all acknowledge that this is really a bandaid solution to an actual flaw in the camera system? None of my other Canon bodies have this issue. Granted they don't have facial tracking enabled, but still...

There's an actual setting in the R6: "AE lock metering after focus" that seems to be working improperly with Servo focus. I have it set to "locked" for all metering options. Again, if exposure bounced all over the place, I would maybe think it was working as desired to evaluate between exposures. But it's changing by one full stop (in unchanging light), only after two correct exposures, and consistently 1-stop over for all subsequent frames. To me that sounds like a flaw. It does this—mind you—EVERY time I shoot, under all lighting conditions and with all lenses, when Servo, Face-tracking, and High Speed Continuous are chosen.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Tronhard — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:11:43 GMT

From the video by Vanessa Joy, she comments that the settings for the R-series bodies are a different mindset from those of DSLR cameras. As regards your comment - R6: "AE lock metering after focus" that seems to be working improperly with Servo focus. I have it set to "locked" for all metering options. Also, one of the features of the R-series is that in servo mode they are designed to refocus and re-meter between shots, hence the option to disable that feature. I think you are a victim of a change in the systems principle design rather than a technical flaw.

Now, I am not a wedding photographer, I am a wildlife shooter but there are some overlapping principles. I am just offering these videos to see if they will get you back to work successfully. If I was you, I would actually contact Vanessa Joy directly, considering her expertise with both the gear and the genre. She is apparently extremely approachable.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:20:35 GMT

@kevinbarre wrote:
Just tried it—again—using Evaluative, since you were so insistent. Still happens.
Simple shot of my desk. No moving subject, no changing light.
Frame 1: 1/250 F2.5 ISO 1250
Frame 2: 1/250 F2.5 ISO 1250
Frame 3 (and all subsequent frames): 1/320 F2.5 ISO 4000

Stop allowing the camera to control more than one leg of the Exposure Triangle at the same time. Try your test again. Same conditions. Manual shooting mode with ISO Auto. Or, use Av mode, but dial in an ISO value.

DO NOT let the camer control more than one leg at a time.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:25:32 GMT

Just tried it. AV with ISO set to 1600. Problem still occurs.

Frame 1: 1/80 F2.5 ISO 1600

Frame 2: 1/80 F2.5 ISO 1600

Frame 3 (and all subsequent frames): 1/40 F2.5 ISO 1600

It appears it's NOT an Auto ISO issue, but a deeper exposure issue. I've got no clue now.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Waddizzle — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:29:23 GMT

@Tronhard wrote:
I think there is an argument Evaluative Metering, but much depends on the specifics. I shoot with single point servo auto focus and single point metering with back buttons for both. It's how I learnt a long time ago but, more significantly, it works for shooting subjects like birds in thick bush where the lighting is all over the place.

I sue the same approach for that shooting scenario. But, I still use Evaluative Metering whenever I am shooting handheld.

The OP is using EF lenses in a “high speed” continuous shooting mode. I would be curious to know if he is achieving a focus lock on the good and bad exposures. That would have been the first thing that I would have checked. Where and when am I locking exposure?

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

Tronhard — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:32:47 GMT

Kevin, you say: "I can shoot a static subject in static light ". Am I to understand that this is the situation under which you normally work? What experience I have had with weddings (I have shot a few, but don't consider it my strength), that is a fairly common scenario. My point is that if that IS the usual situation, why do you need to use servo mode to begin with?

I would have thought that using Eye tracking with non-servo mode and medium/high speed shooting would achieve what you want.

Re: Exposure changing while shooting High Speed Continuous and Servo Focus with the R6

kevinbarre — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 01:37:22 GMT

Would that not make more sense if the exposure was all over the place, as opposed to jumping up exactly one stop after two frames and then staying there?