topic Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent?

jenwlee — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 19:59:09 GMT

I had a Rebel T7 and used it as my camera for live streaming using the EOS Web utility. The software is flaky. Sometimes it stops connecting and recently the camera keeps shutting itself off and turns it back on. Not a good livestream experience. I was interested in 5D Mark IV instead.

I'm a complete newbie and know that my rebel is a crop camera and the Mark is a full frame. That's my knowledge.

Is there real difference in using a crop versus full frame camera for livestream where I am either presenting slides, interviewing a person or showing my screen?

And what is the full frame equivalent lens to the lens I had for my Rebel T7 - EFS 18-55mm f 1:35-5.6?

Thank you,

Completely lost, just want a camera to use for live streaming

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:08:49 GMT

Before you purchase a camera like the 5DIV, I suggest you step back a bit and reconsider.

You have indicated that your purpose is to use the camera for web streaming, but no other indications of different uses. Can you please explain specifically, the benefits that this camera will offer you?

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

jenwlee — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:18:23 GMT

That's a question I am asking...

"Is there real difference in using a crop versus full frame camera for livestream where I am either presenting slides, interviewing a person or showing my screen?"

I don't know left and right from DSLR cameras. I just happen to pick the 5D Mark IV because I can use Elagato Cam Link with it and ecamm Live. Are you saying a crop camera will suffice?

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

deebatman316 — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:31:10 GMT

In your case an APS-C camera is the best option. You won't see a benefit with a Full Frame camera due to the cost of lenses and other accessories.

-Demetrius

40D, 5D IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM

430EX III-RT & 600EX II-RT

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:34:15 GMT

Can I suggest we wait until the OP has explained WHY they want a FF sensor - while my gut feeling is to agree, I think we need to know the full picture of what the OP actually wants it to do.

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

deebatman316 — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:37:41 GMT

I was mainly looking at OP's use for their current camera. But I might've jumped to conclusions too fast on why OP might want a FF camera over an APS-C camera.

-Demetrius

40D, 5D IV, EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III, EF 24-70mm F/2.8L II, EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 50 F/1.8 STM

430EX III-RT & 600EX II-RT

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

rs-eos — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:38:51 GMT

There are pros/cons to each. If your current lenses are all EF-S, they will not work with a 5D IV. However, if they are EF lenses, they would. And, on a full frame camera like the 5D IV, you'll get wider field of view when using that lens. i.e. more in the frame at the same distance. That could be an advantage.

But the wider field of view could also be a disadvantage if you want to fill the frame with your subject matter; the camera would now need to be brought closer.

Full frame cameras typically do better in regards to less noise in images at the same ISO setting as compared to crop-sensor cameras. So if you're in lower-light situations, this could improve your video quality.

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 21:41:36 GMT

You are going about this the wrong way. You are choosing gear based on a fairly random element.

Tell us PRECISELY what the camera is supposed to do and some indication of your budget please. We can suggest a camera that will fit your needs rather than some specs. Maybe you should read THIS .

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

jenwlee — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:04:01 GMT

As I noted,I just picked the camera because I can use it woth Elagato cam link and it can works with ecamm live. This is only used for livestream. Beyond that, I literally just picked that camera.

Thanks all others for the explanations. That helps. Asking me multiple times why is not helpful when I said all along I don't really know anything about DSLRs and was trying to understand why I would use it or not.

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

Tronhard — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 23:32:35 GMT

The object is not to make you feel bullied but to be absolutely sure of your needs. As I didn't see a response to my inquiry (including budget), so I asked again. Please be aware we are all trying to make sure you get the best return for your investment. It is not at all uncommon for those seeking advice to be vague about what they want and we're not mind readers and we don't want to offer you poor advice, so please stop being so defensive.

I would suggest looking at something like the Canon M50MkII - I am not a vlogger or videographer, so I am not going to try to say what will or will not work. However, it is a model that has proved highly respected and popular with those groups and the price will be significantly cheaper than getting a 5DIV. So, I hope this would provide you with good value if you wanted to make an investment offering the maximum value.

There are some specific benefits here. It is proven to connect to many computer and AV systems, and is small and light enough to be able to fit relatively confined spaces.

I am going to go back and answer your first question now - just so you know you weren't being ignored or disrespected. Any lens has a physical focal length that produces and Angle of View (AoV) that is a cone of light that projects the image it sees. That number is printed on every lens and is a constant as far as the lens is considered - in other words the focal lengths of a lens are a physical constant and are not impacted by the sensor. so it doesn't matter what camera it is used on.

However there is another factor, and that what the sensor captures. A smaller sensor captures less of what the lens projects than a larger one. The result is what is sometimes called a Field of View (FoV) or Field of Capture (FoC). That is what is recorded on your memory card. However, this is often not obvious when looking at what a lens will generate.

All lens focal lengths are marked relative to what would be seen on a Full Frame 35mm camera - it's a sort of de facto standard. If you want to know what any lens would behave like compared to a FF camera, then one uses a crop factor to create that relationship. In the case of a Canon APS-C sensor, that crop factor is 1.6.

What does this mean? Well, compared to a FF camera like the 5DIV, your 18-55mm lens will have a FoV multiplied by 1.6. So the effective FoV is 29mm-88mm. So that is the range you would need to get for a FF lens if you want the same result.

If you want to pursue a FF camera like the 5DIV, you now know the approximate focal range you need. If you don't need the whole range, for example if you shoot generally at the wider end of it, you can choose a lens with a bias in that direction.

Note that lenses for FF cameras are generally much more expensive that those for APS-C bodies. This is not necessarily because of quality, but the optical design of crop sensor bodies give them an advantage, and those lenses are generally not built like tanks as are, for example, the L-series lenses designed for professional use.

If you want further information on this I am offering an article I wrote on the subject at THIS LINK

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

jaewoosong — Thu, 20 Oct 2022 04:33:04 GMT

FF camera like 5d mark IV won't give you significant improvement if you're mostly doing live streaming where you have control over lighting. Moving to a HDMI capture card is the main thing you'll need and the most important bit is "clean HDMI". Whichever camera you decide to get, just search model and "clean hdmi" to see if clean signal is possible. For example, your T7 does not have clean HDMI but a T7i does (with manual focus limitation). This list below shows clean HDMI cameras. For the lens you have, you can just use the Rebel SL3 or 90D.

Re: Crop or full frame for livestreaming and how to convert a crop lens to get full frame equivalent

Tronhard — Thu, 20 Oct 2022 19:44:42 GMT

I'm sorry you were upset and felt pressured. The questions I asked were not meant to be technical in nature, but in fact more of a business outcome - which I would expect you would be able to know. In terms of business benefits things like: I want to be able to live stream in real time, I want to record videos and upload them later etc. I want to make videos that will be longer than 30 minutes (most cameras have a video limit of 29'59"). These questions are not technical in nature, but they tell us of the outcomes you want to achieve. It is then that we can look at the features that best support your outcomes and provide good advice to you, for you to make your own decision.

Jaewoosong has provided you with some good advice. Given we don't know your budget we cannot look at value in that context, but it would certainly seem best not to spend more than you have to.

As regards the list of camera that will provide you with the features you seek, I would recommend you look at the following EOS Webcam Utility page, that also includes a (much expanded) list of cameras suitable for your purposes.

This is where recent developments in Canon technology kick in. It is clear that DSLRs are no longer being developed and production will eventually be phased out. It is likely that one day the EOS M compact interchangeable lens cameras will also follow the same path, although sales for vloggers are holding up because of their compact form factor and suitability, and they are relatively cheap.

The new kid on the block is the R-series of Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Cameras (MILCs). This is where the investment is focused and new bodies are coming out all the time, along with new lenses. Of particular interest to your purposes (I think) will be the EOS R7, which is a relatively cheap, small form factor and light body that has recently come on the market. It boasts a 32MP APS-C sensor, and features such as eye tracking - so the camera will follow your eye as you move around in front of it, In Body Image Stabilization (IBIS) which will work with the Optical Image Stabilization (OIS) of Canon RF and RF-S lenses. It also has no recording limit, dual cards so you should not suffer loss of data if a card fails, fully-articulated screen - so you can see yourself while you are in front of the camera.

RF and RF-S lenses use a new mount that offers much more control and interaction between the camera body and the lens, thus providing features like combining the stabilization of both the body and the lens, which is brilliant for hand-held videography and generally likely to negate the need for a gimble. designed for full frame bodies. RF lenses are for full-frame, while RF-S lenses are for crop bodies like the R7.

You might want to consider the following combination: A R-7, along with the kit lens RF-S 15-45mm that is designed to work with it. This is a more modern version of the same kind of offering from the M50mkII, with its own EF-M 15-45mm, which is a pretty standard vlogging kit. It is clear that Canon are trying to woo people onto the new R platform by replicating the same solution. You might find the following video of interest: At this link and a full review of the R7 by the respected reviewer Gordon Liang at this link .

Essentially, you will get access to the latest technology at a reasonable price, features you will appreciate for video such as: headphone and mic jacks, no recording limit, IBIS+OIS (with RF and RF-S lenses), great tracking and autofocus. It has a very fast processor and a wide range of video formats. It has clean HDMI output (but you must buy the correct cable separately). You have a choice of two kit lenses: the RF-S 15-45mm and 18-150mm stabilized lenses. It appears that the former offers a slightly wider angle if you need that. There will be more lenses coming out for this mount in the future.

I hope this will be of assistance.