topic Re: EOS 2000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS 2000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Sat, 21 May 2022 17:46:20 GMT

I just got the entry level 2000D in preparation for taking a photography class. I gave it a test drive. I see that the pictures are blurry and fuzzy compared to old phone, which has half the pixels. Is this normal? or do I have a defective camera?

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Waddizzle — Fri, 20 May 2022 20:49:27 GMT

Compare the Shutter Speed and Aperture Value settings. The DSLR is using a very slow shutter speed. The DSLR is also using narrow aperture setting, which is causing it to use a slow shutter speed to get a proper exposure.

The camera does not always use the smartest settings when it is set to one of the automatic shooting modes. Switch it to P mode. Av mode might be even better to use.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Tronhard — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:22:08 GMT

You said you were getting this camera in anticipation of doing a course on photography. Personally, I would hold your reservations until you have taken that photographic class. You have a capable camera, but you have yet to learn the appropriate technique for using this technology.
If you want to prepare for your photography course, then I recommend spending a couple of hours watching a video by National Geographic photographer Chris Bray on You Tube: HERE

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Fri, 20 May 2022 23:49:14 GMT

Waddizzle: Thanks, getting in AV mode, decreasing the aperture and increasing the ISO, I was able to take clearer pictures.

Tronhard: Thanks for the advice. So you are saying that it is normal for this camera to take bad pictures in fully automatic landscape mode, and that I need to complete the photography course and manually set the controls for each picture? I was hoping that the software in the camera would be better than that.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Fri, 20 May 2022 23:57:37 GMT

I also noted that it is not just Aperture and Shutter speed. I was able to make one of the pictures better in post processing.

Here is the picture taken with the camera:

With phone:

After post processing the camera picture, making the photo darker, adding contrast and detail enhancement:

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:11:15 GMT

I assume it is a typo, but the EXIF data says 2000D; you posted 4000D.

In P mode the camera should take very good images. But, modern smartphones are dealing in computerized photography, so they are doing a lot of processing to the image. Often that produces images that initially look great and are fine for Instagram and Facebook, but really aren't quality images that you would enlarge and place on your wall.

It's like the television wall in Best Buy or Wal-Mart. In the aisle the bright crisp model catches your eye, but look closely and its over-saturated and over sharpened. Tiring to the eyes in the long run.

The Landscape Picture Style favors smaller aperture for depth of field at the expense of a lower shutter speed since it assumes that the landscape is stationary. It also accentuates blues and greens since they are predominant colors in most landscapes.

Set the camera to Program mode and Standard Picture Style, Auto ISO, Evaluative Metering and One-Shot AF with a singe center focus point. Then go out and shoot.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Tronhard — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:29:33 GMT

No, I am not saying that the camera is programmed to take bad pictures, but depending on the metering characteristics of each image, and they vary a lot, then the sensor can be fooled. Hopefully, the point of the course is to take you away from P and Auto modes, and teach you to use the strengths of this type of camera, which are centred around your ability to control the camera not the camera to control you.
If you are going to live in P or Auto mode, then use a cell phone, they are usually better at that. The other modes on the dial: Av, Tv and M are where this type of camera shine, because they let you control the camera and the creative processes. However, to do so you need to learn the principles of exposure and composition, which is what a good photography course should do.

Modes like sport, landscape etc. make assumptions on your behalf to take what it thinks you want to achieve. When you get into your course you will learn about a thing called the exposure triangle: which is an interplay between what is in focus, how fast the shutter works and the sensitivity to light of the sensor. When you chose landscape mode the camera assumed you wanted everything to be in focus, that meant that the camera made settings that biased towards things near and far being in focus, but at the expense of shutter speed. If you were hand-holding the camera, the resultant very slow shutter speed would result in camera movement, which will give fuzzy results.

If you really want to prepare for your photography course, then I recommend spending a couple of hours watching a video by National Geographic photographer Chris Bray on You Tube: HERE

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Waddizzle — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:18:08 GMT

Whoa, slow down for a minute. Do not jump to conclusions, yet. Listen to Trevor. There is a lot more going on here than you might realize. Compared to using a Smartphone, using a DSLR is like driving an 16 gear tractor trailer compared to a mini-van.

One reason why the “Landscape” mode seemed to take blurry photos is because of the slower shutter speeds the camera chose. Most of the blurriness is coming from camera shake from the way you’re holding the camera.

That does not mean you’re holding the camera wrong. At those shutter speeds, the slightest wobble or wiggle will blur the photo. The camera probably assumes that you are using a tripod when you select Landscape mode, so camera shake does not factor into the equation.

Your photography class should teach you how to best hold the camera to minimize camera shake, and why shutter speeds come into play when you are hand holding the camera.

TRY THIS! Switch the camera back to Landscape mode. Put the camera on a tripod, or on a stable surface. Very carefully,, press the shutter without shaking the camera. There is a built-in shutter delay timer in the camera, 2 or 10 seconds. USE THAT to do this test.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:18:50 GMT

Thanks jrhoffman75. Yes, it was a typo. I have a 2000D camera. I will try the P mode tomorrow, with your recommended settings.

I did zoom on the pictures I have taken, and the ones from the phone seemed to be clearer, and the ones from the camera too fuzzy. Hopefully, playing around with the P and AV modes, as you guys suggested, I will get better pictures.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Waddizzle — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:22:40 GMT

NICE!

Do you know how to read the display inside of the camera viewfinder? Do you know where to see Shutter Speed, Aperture Value, ISO Value, and most importantly Exposure Value?

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:55:54 GMT

Tronhard> When you chose landscape mode the camera assumed you wanted everything to be in focus, that meant that the camera made settings that biased towards things near and far being in focus, but at the expense of shutter speed.

This was just an example. I also got blurry pictures on all the other modes, on different subjects.

Yes, I wanted everything to be in focus as you can see how my phone did:

And compare with my camera:

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Tronhard — Sat, 21 May 2022 01:17:58 GMT

Yes, and you will continue to have those issues as long as you keep blaming the camera and realize that you have to get a basic level of knowledge, including theory, under your belt.

This is a lot different from a cell phone. A cell phone has a very small lens, with a very narrow aperture for the light to reach the sensor. Those two combined mean that you will likely get most things in focus and it will tolerate a bit of camera shake.

Waddizzle's comment about it being a much more complicated thing to control is what I am trying to tell you as well. A modern conventional camera is much more complex in order to give you much more control - in a way it's like learning to drive a car with a manual gear box instead of a fully automatic one. Without being instructed, if you just get in and drive, you will not use the car as it is intended or achieve the result you want, and you're going to grind the gears. That's going to be frustrating. At this point, the logical thing to do is to get someone to teach you how to drive a manual car.

This is the same principle, but more complicated, as there are multiple variables at work here. Including (but not limited to) how you hold the camera, what lens you are using, what is your shutter speed, what is the aperture of the lens, what is the sensitivity of the sensor (measured by the ISO value). Is either the subject or you moving - as you have already discovered slow shutter speed can result in camera shake, for example?

We cannot teach you the basics of photography here, we can resolve specific issues with the technology or technique. However, IMHO, that is not your issue - it is that you need the basic groundings in the principles of photography. That is why I am trying to help you when I have given you a path via the link I recommended to start to learn some of the things you need to know.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 21 May 2022 01:25:47 GMT

Can you post one or two of the images you are unhappy with to a Dropbox or One Drive folder so I can download them and examine them.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Sat, 21 May 2022 01:39:26 GMT

Thank you. Yes, I get it, but if the camera is unable to take decent pictures in the auto modes, as compared to an old cell phone, it should just get rid of them, and market the camera only to people who have completed a photography course. 18 wheelers do not have automodes for empty, fully loaded, freeway, up hill, down hill, etc., nor I expected them to have them. However, my Jeep Wrangler has an automatic transmission with a manual mode, that works pretty well, when I switch into it to first gear and climb a rock. This is supposed to be an entry-level camera....

I will keep the camera a little longer. I will play with the AV mode. I have been reading a photography book so I am familiar with the basics.....

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

Tronhard — Sat, 21 May 2022 09:37:38 GMT

To be honest, you seem to be putting all of the responsibility onto the device when you have not learnt how to use it, which requires a combination of the general understanding of photography with also understanding the specific controls of your camera.

Cellphones get some astounding results in auto modes because they use a lot of computational photographic algorithms to modify the image and give you results that may be pleasing. That is not usually a characteristic of conventional dedicated cameras, because the idea is that the user provides the 'intelligence' rather than an algorithm - but it does mean that one will get poorer results initially, as one learns.

The camera can take decent images in auto modes but it's not a panacea for good imagery under all conditions - in Auto, P, scene modes - in fact in ALL modes, it basically offers a suggestion for exposure scenario, based on that the camera sensor read. It is up to the user to decide if this is appropriate or not: that's where the control comes in even at this level and that is different from a cell phone in many cases. Sensors can be fooled by certain types of exposure, depending on the sensor configuration and the degree of contrast in an image. That is why there are controls (exposure compensation, for example) to allow the user to override the automatic efforts of the sensor.

One of the important things in photography (or any activity) is to be able to analyze your results to improve, but this requires a grounding in the understanding of the functions and interrelationships of ISO, aperture and shutter, and technique.

If, for example, you were to go to P mode, and rotate the front control dial you will see that the exposure settings for Shutter speed, aperture and (maybe) ISO change, because the camera is adapting to what you feel is more important depending on what you dial into the system - for example, you may reject a suggested shutter speed, based on the fact that you are hand-holding the camera in lower light and the shutter speed is too slow to avoid camera shake, and so you dial in a faster one. The impact of this could be that the aperture, which governs Depth of Field (DoF) may be reduced; or the ISO may be increased, possibly introducing noise into the image.

How one holds the camera can have a huge impact on the stability of the system and how sharp photos are. DSLRs are not like cell phones, the best way to hold one is with the left hand under the lens, cradling the body on the heel of the hand, then with the viewfinder to one's eye, and the arms tucked with elbows against the chest to create three points of support. Holding a camera like a cell phone with arms extended is a going to produce a much less stable platform.

As far a dispensing with auto and scene modes, if you were to look at the more expensive cameras designed for experienced photographers, they have dispensed with these modes because it is assumed by the makers that the users don't need suggestions any more.

If you are frustrated with the results you are getting then learn to overcome them - I have no idea how many images you have taken, but likely not a lot. As one of the most celebrated photographers of the 20th Century, Henri Cartier-Bresson, said: "Your first 10,000 images are the worst." Photographic skill is a journey, rather than a destination. You learn by failure more than success, as long as you see each as a stepping stone to learning and improvement, rather than an as a barrier.

I see you have been reading a book on the subject and that's good, but that alone is not necessarily enough. You need to be able to grasp the concepts and different presenters or writers give you other ways to understand the principles through explanations and examples. Certainly videos are very appropriate as they deal in the visual medium itself.
Perhaps try this explanation of the elements that influence exposure:
What Is Exposure? (A Beginner’s Guide) (photographylife.com)

If you are suggesting disposing of your camera before you take the course you mentioned, that would be a great pity. Above all, you need to take photos, accepting many of your first efforts will be less than successful - that's part of the learning process. Take heart: at least you have the benefits with digital of immediate results, and not having to pay for each shot as one does with film, so you can and should take a lot of images, and where they are not successful, look at the settings to analyze the results, using your knowledge of the principles involved.

We can look at your photos and do some analysis, but we can't be there in real time to help you with hands-on assistance, which is where the course you mention comes in.

So, please, take a breath, then go to the course with an open mind, and you should find it all works out ok. 🙂

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 21 May 2022 12:39:42 GMT

“will keep the camera a little longer. I will play with the AV mode. I have been reading a photography book so I am familiar with the basics....”

My suggestion is minimize variables while you get comfortable with the camera. Put it in “cellphone” mode by setting it at green square auto. Your lens likely has image stabilization, switch it on.

I see three issues: expectations, technique and equipment.

Expectations - As I posted previously, cellphone images are heavily processed in the device. They are going to produce images that will look different than a “conventional” camera under the same conditions.

Why your iPhone or Android phone takes better images than a DSLR (photographyacademy.com)

A typical photo forum post:

Technique - The manual for your camera will have a few pages in the beginning pages that give basic hints for picture taking. Holding the camera steady is critical.

Equipment- As I previously posted please post a few images to Dropbox or One Drive. Preferably RAW files, but at least Large-Fine JPEGs. Let’s be sure there isn’t a hardware problem.

Your camera has a lot of capability, and taking some photo courses will help you tap into those features, but there are millions of Rebel/XXXXD cameras in use. That wouldn’t be true if folks couldn’t use them without going to school.

Re: EOS 2000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Sat, 21 May 2022 16:21:21 GMT

I played with the AV mode. The only way I could get a decent picture is not only setting the aperture to the lowest value possible with my camera (4.5), but also increasing the ISO to 400. Increasing it to 800 made the picture too grainy.

ISO 200, AV 4.5, TV 1/30:

ISO 200, AV 5.6, TV 1/15:

ISO 200, AV 8.0, TV 1/8:

ISO 400, AV 4.5, TV 1/80:

ISO 800, AV 4.5, TV 1/80:

My lens does not have a image stabilization switch.

You can find the JPG files here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1q7Gmb24qoacX-BdCjrM-IGNLYIKUilIb?usp=sharing

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 21 May 2022 14:01:57 GMT

The address to the file link is being report as not valid.

Unless you are on a tripod 1/8 or 1/15 second without IS are going to be extremely difficult to avoid camera shake/motion blur.

Re: EOS 4000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

rs-eos — Sat, 21 May 2022 14:18:39 GMT

As already mentioned earlier, your DSLR has a much larger sensor than your phone. This will let you achieve shallower depths of field at the same aperture. And, one of the primary reasons I moved to a DSLR. While not for everyone, I absolutely love the look that a 50mm f/1.2 can achieve on a full-frame camera.

If you want everything in focus, you'll need to be at smaller apertures and use wider angle lenses and learn about things like hyper-focal distance.

Give it time; learn as you go. A DSLR is very complex. But you'll find that it can really help you achieve your vision as an artist. One of the biggest benefits being that you can change out the lens leading to endless possibilities.

Re: EOS 2000D Blurry pictures as compared to my old Samsung Galaxy S9 phone

v3anders — Sat, 21 May 2022 16:55:05 GMT

Sorry, about the link. I fixed it.

Yes, I understand camera shake. The point is that the only way I was able to get a shutter speed of 1/80 in Av mode, was to reduce the AV to 4.5 and increase ISO to 400. The statue pictures were from this morning, when it was cloudy. Now that is sunny, I can increase the AV to 14 and get still get a fast Tv (125). The picture came clear with the statue in the sun.... but I do not want to be limited to take pictures only on sunny days.