topic The Ever Hated Grainy Photo in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:15:02 GMT

To begin I have a CANON REBEL T7 with a 24-70 mm CANON lens.
I have taken quite a bit of time scouring the internet for the do's and don't of photography. All my images are RAW files and I shoot in Manual mode and use the auto focus mode (which I feel like is what the issue is)
ISO is 100 f/28 1/320 I think I was set at AL SERVO
I point the red dot on the face and then I open the files and some/most of the pictures come out "annoyling" grainy. I don't know what to do!
Is the AF Point Selection just no good? I heard the center one is the best to use, but the face or subject I want in focus isn't always smack dab in the center.

Is it the distance I am shooting from? If so could someone explain to me in simple terms what and how the best shooting distance is determined?

Is my camera no bueno and its just not capable sometimes of getting crisp shots?

Do I need to use manual focus and if so HOW> it seems like it would make photo taking take forever trying to make sure you get the right focus?

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Tronhard — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:04:26 GMT

Modern cameras do not require you to use manual exposure settings - in fact they should do a lot to help you get the right exposure.

Noise is usually caused by under-exposure (something I think is true of this image), and by using very high ISO values.

If in doubt, set the ISO control in your camera to AUTO. It will use the lowest ISO value it can to give you the other settings you select.

For the majority of the images I have shot over 40+ years, I have used aperture priority. You choose what's in focus and the camera will set up the shutter speed and ISO to give you an acceptable exposure. Using single point autofocus and single point exposure is OK as long as your can lock the settings while you recompose the shot to place the subject in an advantageous location in the frame.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:08:27 GMT

Can a lower ISO number still produce grain? I expect it when I bump that up past 400, but not at 100.

When using the AF point selection dots, using the center one, but the composition of the shot requires the focus point to be somewhere else? I guess I dont understand how I am only limited to whatever I put that dot on.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Tronhard — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:12:41 GMT

At 100 ISO is at the very bottom, but that may also be your problem. So, did you manually define ALL of your settings? ISO, Av and Tv? If so, you can so constrain the camera that it cannot provide correct exposure.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:17:09 GMT

I put the settings at ISO 100 F2.8 1/320, I put the unedited photo in the message.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Tronhard — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:34:47 GMT

I take it from that you have manually set all three parameters. Doing so puts all of the responsibility on you to get the exposure completely right. Essentially, you are ham-stringing the features of the camera and using it like a camera from the early part of the last century. In doing so you are inevitably going to have more exposure errors creep in, especially when the exposure you see through a DSLR viewfinder is not an accurate representation of the actual exposure. The optical viewfinder shows you the image with the aperture fully open, and it sets the aperture you select as it takes the photo. To see the actual exposure during composition you need to press the image preview button to the bottom right of the lens (as you use the camera, viewed from the back).

Noise occurs when there is not enough light to overcome the background noise of the sensor. You can have a reasonably high ISO and no noise if you provide the correct exposure using the other controls. That is where the camera's automated features come in to give you the correct settings.

First, I suggest setting the ISO to automatic. Modern cameras can work perfectly well and produce good images up to ISO 3200 and in some cases considerably higher. Then set the camera to Av mode and try taking some photos and see how they come out. Let us know how it works out.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:50:35 GMT

Perfect! Will do I plan on getting some photos tomorrow and will certainly try your tips- I sincerely appreciate your time and advice!

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Tronhard — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:53:15 GMT

No problem. If you are shooting in Av or Tv mode, and find the exposure is not right, use the EV dial (top of body on the right) to add or reduce exposure. Note the changes of the values in the viewfinder when you do that.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Waddizzle — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:48:34 GMT

I think One Shot AF tends to be slightly more accurate than Ai Servo AF. However, the AF system has little to do with noise being captured in the image. Pixel peeping can reveal a LOT of noise, which goes unnoticed when images are viewed at their original full size. Underexposed shots can become noisy when the exposure is raised in post.

Using ISO Auto in M mode on a Rebel T5/6/7 can become tricky because you can only set exposure in full stop increments. You would need to use Exposure Compensation to control exposure settings in smaller increments. Except, EC is not available in M mode.

Use Av mode, and manually dial in an ISO value. Exposure Compensation is available in Av and Tv modes is you wish to use them. The camera can also set exposure in smaller increments than a full stop when it is in Av mode.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:58:08 GMT

A few suggestions.

1. AI Servo is not what I would recommend for that image. One Shot AF would be better. AI Servo is for moving subjects where the distance between subject and camera can be changing. Camera "does the math" to compute where subject will be when the shutter fires. Focus is not necessarily locked. I'm not sure if your camera has an AI Focus setting, but if it does never use it. AI focus tries to decide between One Shot AF and AI Servo based on motion - frequently the motion it detects is the photographer moving the camera.

2. I see you used Partial Metering. I am guessing you wanted to meter on the little boy (cute subject). Canon's Evaluative Metering is quite good. I wouldn't switch away from that unless Eval wasn't treating the subject properly.

3. Subject is underexposed. I used Canon DPP and checked the RGB values of the white bunny ears. Boosted the exposure while still keeping the whites in the 230 range.

I don't see noise. Here is the image enlarged 400%

As previously recommended, for a subject like this I would use Av mode w/Auto ISO. Camera will use the aperture you selected, choose a shutter speed about twice the selected focal length (to avoid blur from camera shake) and the select the required ISO for a correct exposure.

"When using the AF point selection dots, using the center one, but the composition of the shot requires the focus point to be somewhere else? I guess I dont understand how I am only limited to whatever I put that dot on. "

You can select which focus point you want. If none of the camera's points fall on the subject you can use "focus and recompose". Put the closest point on your subject, half press shutter to lock focus, and the reframe your shot. As long as you move camera laterally you won't lose your focus.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Tronhard — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:21:50 GMT

Personally, I thought that just getting Samantha to come out of everything manual was a good first step. Things like Servo or not, # of focus or metering points might be a good step in the future, but I'm going small steps here and trying not to overcomplicate the issue.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

Waddizzle — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:05:09 GMT

@Tronhard wrote:
Personally, I thought that just getting the OP to come out of everything manual was a good first step. Things like Servo or not, # of focus or metering points might be a good step in the future, but I'm going small steps here and trying not to overcomplicate the issue.

I totally agree you. Keep it simple. Switching from AI Servo to One Shot reduces the number of AF points to worry about. On this type of Rebel, I would recommend only using the Center AF point for One Shot AF.

The Rebel T5/6/7 models are the real entry level Rebels. Outside of the US they have 4 digit, ####D, model numbers compared to what I call “Intelligent Rebels”, which are slightly more advanced. The Intelligent Rebels have the lower case letter “i” at the end of the model numbers, and use 3 digit, ###D, model numbers outside of the US.

Using M mode on a ####D Rebel body is far more challenging that using M mode on a midrange or professional body because you are locked into setting exposure in full stop increments. You have to really understand the photography and the camera in order to work around that limitation, in order to be able to set exposure in 1/3 stop increments.

I would always encourage people to venture into using M mode. But, I will not on the ####D models with beginners. Using Av or Tv mode, and One Shot AF, is what works best on these models.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

ebiggs1 — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:54:32 GMT

Not that any of the advice above is wrong but I am going to suggest a different method. Your shot is a simple snap shot. Let the camera do its thing and leave it in P mode. Sometimes the camera is smarter than we think. Let the simple stuff be, well, simple! Try P mode. One shot, and ISO 200. ISO 200 tends to be less grainy than all the other numbers.

As to focus you can put just the center focus point on the babies eye and while half-holding down the shutter button recompost the shot to your liking. It will hold focus on the eye for you.

You are shooting Raw. Good. This means you can do a lot of enhancements in post edit. If you do not have DPP4 you can d/l it for free from Canon. Almost anything can be made better in post except focus. That you must nail. However even focus can be enhanced to make a so-so shot more enjoyable.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:11:03 GMT

The top photo is what I would like my photos to look like as far as the crispness. The bottom photo is the orginial photo on my post. The "graininess" bugs me. I have not yet taken my camera out to try some of the advice given - once I do that in a bit I will post again.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:11:29 GMT

see above added screenshots. Maybe I am being to picky. But there is definitely a difference.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:49:40 GMT

I don't see graininess, but the bottom image (-0722) is out of focus. Look at the eyebrows and eyelashes in the two photos. The top image looks to have good focus.

As a start, comp[are the camera settings for the two images.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

ebiggs1 — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:18:54 GMT

The worst, hardest, critic is yourself. In your example, 0722 is OOF plain and simple. It is also underexposed. Underexposed shots make everything else look even worse. Add OFF to underexpose and, yeah, it probably has all the bad going for it. Like several of us have said keep it simple. Let a simple thing be simple. It is easy to over think something when it isn't necessary. You should be using One shot 90% of the time. It is that much more accurate for most shots. Also, ISO 200 whenever possible and for this type of photos, P mode is good.

I took a pretty compressed jpg that you u/l of the baby and look how much better it is. That is a simple levels adjustment to correct underexposure. I added a bit of saturation to the reds too. If I had the Raw it would look even better.

Way back a few posts ago i think I saw you had aT7 and a 24-70mm Canon lens? Understand the lens makes the shot. Not the camera as it is basically a storage device. Let that very good lens do its thing in AF with the cameras in One shot. Also one stop down from wide open is sharper so use it when you can. If you were at f2.8 and 1/320, a better choice would be f4 and 1/160.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

samkusterbeck — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:29:16 GMT

I just took some photos and again I am having the issue getting most of the images to be in focus...these two have the same settings, and as far as I know I am doing the same thing when taking them but one is obviously more in focus than the other

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

ebiggs1 — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:14:06 GMT

Again you have underexposed the bottom photo. Do you see your histogram? The right side of the histogram in the top photo is good but the bottom photo it is weak on the right side. That means it is underexposed. That makes a valid comparison difficult.

Re: The Ever Hated Grainy Photo

ebiggs1 — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 17:37:02 GMT

Perhaps you missed my last comment so I am reposting it here.

"The worst, hardest, critic is yourself. In your example, 0722 is OOF plain and simple. It is also underexposed. Underexposed shots make everything else look even worse. Add OFF to underexpose and, yeah, it probably has all the bad going for it. Like several of us have said keep it simple. Let a simple thing be simple. It is easy to over think something when it isn't necessary. You should be using One shot 90% of the time. It is that much more accurate for most shots. Also, ISO 200 whenever possible and for this type of photos, P mode is good.