topic Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

The last of the DSLR EOS line

ChrisPBacon — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:35:06 GMT

It’s been a year since Canon announced the production and availability of their last EOS camera, the EOS-1D X Mark 3.

A number of professionals in the industry feel that this planned obsolescence of the EOS camera will be Canon’s swan song. I, for one, resent the arrogance of Canon’s Chairman and CEO Fujio Mitarai, believing that professionals and consumers will be willing to shell out tens of thousands for mirrorless camera bodies and new lenses. Frankly, if I’m going to have to go to a new camera and lenses, it will be a company that isn’t run by malignant narcissists.

In my opinion, there’s a good reason why Canon is struggling economically — aside from the virus scares — and the company has lost many loyal customers. Permanently.

Re: The last of the EOS line

Waddizzle — Sat, 29 Jan 2022 21:33:21 GMT

I am sorr you feel that way.

I believe EOS is an acronym for Electronic Optical System, which actually refers to the electronic AF system. Canon may be withdrawing from the DSLR market, but the EOS system continues with MILC bodies. I think Canon will be fine. Sony seems to do well without DSLRs.

Re: The last of the EOS line

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 29 Jan 2022 22:25:49 GMT

Since Canon just released the EOS R3 your basic premise is faulty.

It is true that the last EF mount camera announced was the EOS 1D X Mark III, and I am suspecting that it will likely be the last.

The move is to mirrorless and the EOS RF mount design.

I have a 1D X Mark III, and much to my surprise, it still works as well as it does now, after the R3 was released, as it did before, so I must have missed the command to buy a new camera.

Re: The last of the EOS line

Tronhard — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:44:21 GMT

Chris, it is distressing to read of your frustration and angst; however, with all due respect, I must take issue with most of the statements you have brought forward.

I can remember the same comments when Canon changed their lens mount to the EF and brought out the EOS line in the last century. Then the knives came out when Canon (and others) moved to the digital platform. Change is always disruptive and more so for those whose comfort zones have anchored in the last iteration of technology.

Furthermore, it is not yet determined (to my knowledge) that they will discontinue the design and delivery of lower-end DSLR bodies which has always been a profitable line for them. The current range of MILCs is obviously centred on the high-end amateur, prosumer and professional where the benefits of the new mount, lenses, sensors and tracking have obviously reaped benefits. I know several highly competent and successful professional photographers who are quite happy with DSLRs that are not even in the last series of professional bodies - for them, if they can still take photos that sell they they see no reason to change: the camera is a tool and nothing more. When the time comes that they cannot compete, they will move to the R-series bodies: and some are doing so: many will using their EF lenses via the adapters with no issue, others are clearly keen to get the benefits of the excellent technology inherent in the new lenses offered by Canon's line. So, our experiences differ.

While you suggest that 'a number of professionals in the industry feel that this planned obsolescence of the EOS camera will be Canon’s swan song', Canon's market performance in what is essentially the higher end of the market suggests otherwise. Their profits have gone up and they are still firmly the leading brand.

Canon are moving with a market within which they compete with other great manufacturers - the major ones of which are Nikon and Sony. Sony has had a MILC platform for many years, while Nikon last released a DSLR two years ago - not one, as you state - at exactly the same date as Canon released their 1DXMkIII on Jan 7, 2020. It is obvious that both of Canon and Nikon are heavily committed to the MILC market as well, and Canon have to move with the times to compete in a globally shrinking market.

For the consumer, changing systems can get expensive, so doing so should not be done without due considerations as the the implications for loss of investment, and availability of what you seek in the future. It begs the question as to what competitor you would move to in order to gain access to a reliable and on-going DSLR delivery stream, especially if you want a full-frame body. If you can't confidently do so, then you are potentially making an expensive and (to any maker) insignificant gesture that could cost you dearly.

Not only is the market shrinking and competition on the move, but the supply of parts is critical - almost all makers are holding back the delivery of new models because they simply cannot get the chips or sensors due to the supply challenges brought on by the pandemic - one which is showing no signs of going away, I might add. Consequently, they have to focus on a smaller number of models, and it doesn't make sense to look backward when sales clearly indicate which way the market is heading.

If you have the latest DSLRs from Canon then you know they still work as well as they ever did: so if you feel you are a competent photographer with what you have now, then you are not losing out because your skill lives on and the cameras perform as they always did.

Since 1980, I have seen the evolution of systems from F-series bodies and lenses to EOS, to Digital and now mirrorless. I have never depended upon newer technology per se: I have sought improvement through mastering what I have, but I am happy to embrace the benefits that technology offers, and I will continue to take the photos I have always taken, still using very old cameras quite happily. Technique will always outlive technology. However the market is changing, as it always has and always will...

Re: The last of the EOS line

kvbarkley — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 03:34:56 GMT

Check to see the last few LensRentals blog entries about what get rented this year. Canon is number one.

Re: The last of the EOS line

shadowsports — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 04:13:58 GMT

Spoiler alert: Canon faithful here.

Canon will continue kicking @$$. The only swans are going to be hanging out with the swallows in Capistrano.

I may not be a huge fan of Canon's 1st through 3rd gen mirrorless, but they are truly marvelous from a technology perspective. Now mirrorless is well out of its infancy. No doubt I'll buy a new body and control ring, then enjoy the (you know what) out of pairing great EF glass on a new mirrorless body.

You're getting video with your still whether you want it or not now. Not much of a compromise. The R5c is going to be like a rail gun in predator. If this is obsolescence, I'll see you on the other side. So it doesn't have ibis... put a good IS lens on it to keep the "jello" to a minimum. If you need a full size HDMI port for your NinjaV... buy a cinema EOS.

Then right before sony, fuji and nikon recover, they'll give everyone a sub $1k FF replacement for the RP and a couple of APS-C bodys to deliver another knock out punch... And then... the R1.

If someone can't get excited about even one of these, or feel like they won't deliver in value, then switch. I'm a hard sell, I've been disappointed with every Canon mirrorless camera until (possibly) now. I think the R5 would have been perfect for me, but the simple overheating thing made it impossible to commit to. Its still a great camera ( I admit). Enter the "c'.. would I choose a deeper body and fan (active cooling) given a choice not sure, but at least when I did shoot video (3 times a year) my only limitations will be power and memory.

I love my 6D2, DSLRs and past SLRs. They will always have a place in my heart, but I have zero problems embracing new tech. Trevor and the guys have said it all. Canon isn't turning their back on anyone. Its called progression. We are going to get some killer "stuff". No, its never perfect. they always leave something cool out, but we are going in the right direction. If someone wants to stick with DSLR (EOS) go for it.

Re: The last of the EOS line

wq9nsc — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 15:08:50 GMT

I have used Canon gear since the 1980s but I am not impressed with the glitches in their first few generations of mirrorless. At some point I will look seriously into mirrorless but since that will involve also changing to new glass to take full advantage, it would be foolish not to see how the competition sticks up so some of us who have been brand loyal largely through convenience and legacy will be taking a harder look at how the field stacks up. I may very well stay with Canon but it depends upon how they compare overall with what I do with cameras.

Nikon's new 400 f2.8 with built in "hot switchable" 1.4X looks very tempting, something I hoped that Canon would have carried over from their 200-400 plus 1.4X into their 400 f2.8 which would have made a great and versatile lens for field sports. I have been spending some time learning a new astronomy camera that uses Sony's 62MP back illuminated full frame sensor and I am impressed with what Sony is doing with sensor technology and providing to their other sensor customers. So for me what was an easy choice 10 years ago won't be as easy of a choice in the next few years.

Rodger

Re: The last of the EOS line

ebiggs1 — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:27:36 GMT

"...and the company has lost many loyal customers."

If Canon has lost any "loyal" customers it is because other companies have out competed them not because they switched to mirrorless. I went through the FD to EF change over years ago and some folks said the very same thing. They were wrong and so are you.

In the professional sport field the 1 Series is king and will be for some time to come.

Re: The last of the EOS line

Tronhard — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:18:14 GMT

I agree with Ernie.

The statement that Canon has lost customers, or more specifically, market share is patently inaccurate. Right now, all of the major camera makers are moving to mirrorless: Sony has been producing MILCs for some time, Canon and Nikon each last released a DSLR two years ago, and each has released 5 mirrorless models since then. That leaves one with Fuji and Panasonic - also mirrorless. OM (Olympus) makes Micro 4/3 cameras and is now a small player. Pentax made a FF DSLR... in 2018. So threatening to go to another manufacturer is rather a pointless and empty bluster, and has serious credibility issues too.

In the series of cameras high-end sport-oriented cameras that you and, in his repost, Ernie referred to I agree that the majority of models used out there are likely to be the EOS 1DxMkIII to which he referred and the OP apparently owns. I expect that to change eventually to the R3 or a later model, but that is likely to take some time because:
1. A lot of photographers are likely to want to use their current gear for as long as it is able to deliver the performance and output that is required by the market and will then consider a move to the newer tech.
2. Due to production issues, there is a long backlog of orders for the R3 - in NZ there is not one seller who can offer one for sale right now - they are all on back-order. Folks in North America and professionals may well gain priority access to those that are available.

Re: The last of the EOS line

ChrisPBacon — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:25:23 GMT

One aspect of hardware ownership you don’t mention is the issue of maintenance. In the end, entropy always wins — lenses leak and parts on cameras break. As manufacturers decide, like Canon, to no longer support their hardware, the consumer is forced to shelve or discard it: that’s usually a replacement parts issue. But what about maintaining gear that is still functional?

Imagine for a moment that a Ford dealer tells the owner of a 1966 Mustang that they won’t tune up the vehicle because they no longer carry the spares — though it’s more an issue usually of the vehicle not having a computer that technicians can connect to that tells them what to do to fix a problem: many dealerships don’t have people who know how to tune up a less-sophisticated vehicle.

That’s exactly what Canon is doing: they refuse to clean an AE-1, for example, even though it still functions. Why? CPS technicians are capable of cleaning a camera of lower technology and no doubt their labor is just as profitable cleaning an AE-1 as it is to work on a mirrorless model, particular the first models that were rushed into production and have a number of significant problems.

The issue, one we’ll never agree upon, is a matter of integrity and ethics: Canon no doubt makes their decisions purely on the basis of profitability. This means that there will be no new EF lenses, and, in time, our DSLRs one-by-one will no longer be maintained, and companies such as Sigma and Zeiss will no longer make Canon EF-compatible lenses.

I understand your points all too well. Allow me to point out one fly-in-the-ointment. These new mirrorless cameras have a significant Achilles heel. Do you know what it is?

Re: The last of the EOS line

Tronhard — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:52:14 GMT

Like any manufacturer, Canon has limits on what it services and for which it keeps parts. The electronic componentry is a critical issue: one can still get very old, purely mechanical cameras to work and be serviced today, because one can fabricate or mend the materials - just like vintage cars. Circuit boards in electronic cameras, especially solid state ones, are another matter. Their boards are replaceable items. The Canon AE-1 is a pretty good example, (it was released in 1976, so that 46 years ago!) and since you brought it up, the electronics in it are ancient and it is unreasonable to ask any manufacturers to maintain and support an electronic technology that is so old. There are 3rd party service centres that specialize in those older brands, many using cannibalized parts from other cameras.

As far as service life of modern cameras goes: Canon have extended their warranty to now offer a five-year warranty on their cameras and lenses - which is pretty reasonable and shows their confidence in the quality of their product, and they apparently will service them for some years after that. Given that the electronics tech changes so quickly, cameras will continue to improve (just as computers do, because essentially that is what they are now) and most people will want to upgrade within that service lifespan. The same thing can be seen in cars. One can see purely mechanical cars that are almost a century old being maintained today, because one can approach them with a wrench and a screwdriver, and create new parts. Not that many of the cars with electronic systems in them are living on when the electronics are no longer available.

So, I have a question for you! Where will you take your business if you are so frustrated, or is this just a venting exercise of angst? Whatever, you should be sure to be able to back up your information or you undermine your credibility, as you have already done.

Re: The last of the EOS line

jrhoffman75 — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:55:51 GMT

FWIW, it is my understanding that Canon will not accept a product for service once they no longer have parts available in case they inadvertently damage something.

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

Tronhard — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 07:33:30 GMT

And it is no less effective a camera now than it was then. If you say 'we' I assume you mean some of the members of this community and I agree there was a sentiment among some.

But that was two years ago, and a lot has happened since then. It is simply that, like all other makers, they have to move with the times and the competition - not to do so would put Canon at a major disadvantage.

So, there is a choice: either stick with the 1DXMkIII, try one of the new MILCS from Canon, or find another brand that continues to issue DSLR models of an equivalent level - but don't look to any of the major brands... That ship has sailed.

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

Tronhard — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 07:53:57 GMT

As to the financial viability of Canon's progress into MILC tech, the following are the published financial results for Canon for 2021: Canon Financial Results they clearly indicate the state of the company's status.

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

ebiggs1 — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 16:04:41 GMT

I very much believe there will be an R1 series in the future. There isn't any rush to have it hit the market while the 1 series is still the predominant camera in the pro world. I can see Canon producing a very long line of RF lenses to match the current EF L models, too. This stuff doesn't happen overnight.

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

ebiggs1 — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 16:12:28 GMT

"And it (the 1 Series) is no less effective a camera now than it was then."

Why does it seem like some folks think if a new model comes out the old one ceases to work? It has been my experience they still do as good a job as ever.

IMHO, nobody manufacturers a "pro" model line beside Canon and Nikon. This is not to say the other makers don't have good cameras and lenses, they do, but they just don't make a true real deal model like the 1 DX Mk III or the D6.

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

Tronhard — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 19:18:03 GMT

Absolutely with Ernie on this: the 1DxIII is as good as it ever was.

On the R line, the R6 has the same sensor plus IBIS and eye tracking. The R3 is a formidable unit and will take the place of a 1-series for some shooters: it is essentially a sports, wedding (referring to videos by Vanessa Joy), and (for some) wildlife camera.

It remains to be seen when a 1-series R model will appear: given the shortage of materials to produce the current line, I'm not holding my breath, but there is pressure from Nikon's Z9 series. In the meantime the 1DxMkIII is still there and doing a great job.

It will be interesting to see if a R1 comes out if it will have a (global?) electronic shutter - under the pressure to answer Nikon's Z9... But that is not an issue right now and is just me musing!🙄

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

ebiggs1 — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 15:30:46 GMT

The 1Dx Mk III is about 2 years old now so a R1 replacement is getting more likely. I am sure Canon knows the life of the 1Dx Mk III and sees no reason to add another pro level camera out until the current 1Dx Mk III users might be considering a new camera.

The requirements of a camera at this level is different than that of a armature or even an advanced armature camera.

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

kvbarkley — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:09:07 GMT

Just for the Record, Ken Rockwell just tested the IBIS in the R3 and found it excellent, giving 6 stops of improvement.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/r3.htm#stabilizer

Re: The last of the DSLR EOS line

jrhoffman75 — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:09:30 GMT

1D X releases have been timed to correspond with the summer Olympics. 2912, 2016 and 2020. Prior to that the 1D (APS-H version) was also on a 4 year cycle.

Perhaps we will see an announcement in Fall 2023. Release in Spring 2024.