topic Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

Cindy-Clicks — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 03:45:08 GMT

When shooting with my 100mm macro in Av, I cannot get a decent shutter speed even in bright sunlight with ISO at 1000. I don't seem to have this problem with my 70D even though I am shooting at 200mm+. The 6D is full-frame so it should actually be shooting faster. What is the problem?

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

TTMartin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 10:34:36 GMT

@Cindy-Clicks wrote:
When shooting with my 100mm macro in Av, I cannot get a decent shutter speed even in bright sunlight with ISO at 1000. I don't seem to have this problem with my 70D even though I am shooting at 200mm+. The 6D is full-frame so it should actually be shooting faster. What is the problem?

What aperture setting are you using in Av mode?

And what do you consider a 'decent' shutter speed?

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

RobertTheFat — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:42:24 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
@Cindy-Clicks wrote:
When shooting with my 100mm macro in Av, I cannot get a decent shutter speed even in bright sunlight with ISO at 1000. I don't seem to have this problem with my 70D even though I am shooting at 200mm+. The 6D is full-frame so it should actually be shooting faster. What is the problem?
What aperture setting are you using in Av mode?

And what do you consider a 'decent' shutter speed?

And what does the camera being full-frame have to do with it?

And for that matter, what does the focal length of the lens have to do with it? Yes, you may need a faster shutter speed when shooting with a longer lens; but a particular aperture implies a particular shutter speed, regardless of the focal length.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

ebiggs1 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:36:34 GMT

Can you reveal your exact settings?

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

Cindy-Clicks — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:07:03 GMT

f/11, it sets the shutter speed at around 20. I cannot handhold it at that speed. I was told that full frame allows more light in, thus it should find a fast shutter speed than my crop sensor, which will give me at least 100 sec at that focal length. I mean if the ISO is set at 1000 in bright sunlight, something seems amiss here.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

ebiggs1 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:21:16 GMT

If a camera is set to f11 with a SS of 1/20 and a ISO of 1000, it will be exactly the same no mattter what camera you are using.

Someone told you wrong and probably meant to say low light and/or higher ISO speeds are cleaner with FF.

In bright sunlight a setting of f16 with a SS of 1/100 and a ISO of 100, is called the "Sunny Daylight Rule." The camera or lens makes no difference.

To figure out where you are you need to either double or half these numbers. For instance, f11 with a SS of 1/100 and a ISO of 100 is one stop faster. IE more light let into the camera. Again f16 and a SS of 1/200 with the ISO at 100 is one stop slower. IE less light let into the camera.

On a sunny day you should be able to use f16 with a SS of 1/100 and a ISO of 100. Or any combination of this and with a 100mm f2.8 lens should work well.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

TTMartin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:23:17 GMT

@Cindy-Clicks wrote:
f/11, it sets the shutter speed at around 20. I cannot handhold it at that speed. I was told that full frame allows more light in, thus it should find a fast shutter speed than my crop sensor, which will give me at least 100 sec at that focal length. I mean if the ISO is set at 1000 in bright sunlight, something seems amiss here.

That does sound slow.

What metering mode are you using?

Can you post a sample photo?

Full frame and crop setting should be the same. The crop camera compensates for the difference in total light by applying more amplification at any given ISO. So as a photographer you will only see a difference in the quality of the output, not, in the settings.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

RobertTheFat — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:29:54 GMT

@Cindy-Clicks wrote:
f/11, it sets the shutter speed at around 20. I cannot handhold it at that speed. I was told that full frame allows more light in, thus it should find a fast shutter speed than my crop sensor, which will give me at least 100 sec at that focal length. I mean if the ISO is set at 1000 in bright sunlight, something seems amiss here.

A full-frame camera doesn't let more light in; it just wastes less of it. Anyway, the f-stop takes all that into account. You'll recall (I hope) that it's the ratio of the lens's focal length to the diameter of the opening.

Something does indeed appear amiss if the camera thinks it needs 1/20 of a second in bright sunlight at ISO 1000, unless the scene itself is very dark. Are you sure you don't have a neutral-density filter on the front of that lens?

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

Cindy-Clicks — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:35:53 GMT

I know! If I can't get f/16 at 100 ISO I certainly cannot get it at 1000. I am running out the door right now but I will try to post some pics later. The metering was either evaluative or partial. Definitely not spot. I did have a polorizing lens on, but when I romoved it, it did not seem to help at all.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

ebiggs1 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:37:26 GMT

EV is EV, no matter what size the sensor is.

An APS-C sensor will collect more light per unit area of the sensor, however the larger sensor on a FF sensor will collect the same amount of light in total.

To determine this you would need to keep field of view, depth of field and subject brightness constant which may be impossibile to do exactly. There might not be exact lenses for each format to compare.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

TTMartin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:02:05 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
EV is EV, no matter what size the sensor is.
An APS-C sensor will collect more light per unit area of the sensor, however the larger sensor on a FF sensor will collect the same amount of light in total.

You've got that backwards, both sensors collect the same amount of light per unit area (i.e. square mm). The full frame sensor collects more total light because it has more units of area. (i.e. more square millimeters)

But as I posted before. Full frame and crop setting should be the same. The crop camera compensates for the difference in total light by applying more amplification at any given ISO. So as a photographer you will only see a difference in the quality of the output, not, in the settings.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

Cindy-Clicks — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:07:26 GMT

These two images were both taken with the 6D ev metering, f/13, ISO 800. They were taken seconds apart. The one on the left was 1/125 sec. and the one on the right was 1/25 sec. Why would there be such inconsistancy under the exact same conditions?

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

TTMartin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:43:03 GMT

@Cindy-Clicks wrote:

These two images were both taken with the 6D ev metering, f/13, ISO 800. They were taken seconds apart. The one on the left was 1/125 sec. and the one on the right was 1/25 sec. Why would there be such inconsistancy under the exact same conditions?

Where you using a flash?

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

ebiggs1 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:46:11 GMT

"You've got that backwards, both sensors collect the same amount of light per unit area (i.e. square mm)"

No, I really don't think I have it backwards. It is unrelated to sensor size. It is the density of pixels. APS-C sensors usually have more densely packed sensors. You do have a point in that I am sure you can find a certain sensor vs sensor that does but not generally speaking.

I have heard people say full frame sensors receive more light than crop sensors. I have never found this to true.

Take the same lens along with exact settings on a FF and a APS-C, keep the distance from the lens and the sensor exact, then the FF will collect more light because the sensor is larger. It is recieving all the light the lens can project.

However, ensuring the other parameters are equalized, focal length, DOF, angle of acceptance, etc, you compensate for the different sensor sizes.

I grant you, this may be difficult to do since there may not be that exact match in lenses.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

TTMartin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:48:18 GMT

With a black background like that your best bet is to spot meter off of something else like a grey card or the grass and use full manual settings. Getting the settings for manual exposure is the only time I recommend using spot metering, as it will often cause the exact situation you have here when used with any of the automated modes.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

ebiggs1 — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:49:31 GMT

Cindy-Clicks can you post the photos with the exif left intact? It is impossibile to tell from the sample you posted. Except the one on the right is either OOF or has camera movement.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

Cindy-Clicks — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 20:10:24 GMT

Of course it is going to have camera movement at 1/25. I just checked the file info and it is exactly as I stated. If I am shooting like this I should expect consistancy. I just want to get to the bottom of this because there may be a problem with the lens/camera.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

TTMartin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 21:25:50 GMT

@Cindy-Clicks wrote:
Of course it is going to have camera movement at 1/25. I just checked the file info and it is exactly as I stated. If I am shooting like this I should expect consistancy. I just want to get to the bottom of this because there may be a problem with the lens/camera.

No problem with the camera.

A black background will confuse almost any metering system.

Evaluative metering is weighted to the active AF point. Just very slight variations in where the camera is pointed can vary the exposure.

With a black background it is best to use full manual exposure settings.

Again, meter off of something other than the black backgound. One of these 12 x 12" Inch (30x30cm) White Balance 18 % Grey Gray Reference Reflector Card with a Carry Bag would be ideal. Or you can meter off of grass, or even the palm of your hand.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

ebiggs1 — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:15:16 GMT

"Of course it is going to have camera movement at 1/25. I just checked the file info and it is exactly as I stated. If I am shooting like this I should expect consistancy. I just want to get to the bottom of this because there may be a problem with the lens/camera."

The sample photos do not show a more than 2 stop difference in exposure.

"These two images were both taken with the 6D ev metering, f/13, ISO 800."

f13 @ 1/125 with ISO 800

f13 @ 1/25 with ISO 800

To me anyway they don't.

Re: 100mm 2.8L macro with 6D, shutter too slow in bright sunlight

Cindy-Clicks — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:24:56 GMT

But it is actually 7 stops. I took the original files to my local camera shop last night, and they could not provide me with an answer as to why this is happening. I just want to know if it is problem with the lens or the camera. This is very expensive equipment to be putting up with this kind of nonsense.