topic Re: Canon 7DII in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Canon 7DII

Edward — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:05:04 GMT

I got the camera and tested it with the 400 mm f 2.8 MKII versus a 5DIII with the same lens plus a 1.4X MKIII, both at F 4 and ISO 400 mounted in a tripod and manual focus. The target was a brick wall. Other than enlarging the image obtained with the 5DIII in the computer to match the size of that obtained with the 7DII, no further image manipulations were done in RAW CC. The results were that image quality from the 7DII were slightly better than that of the 5DIII. I have done the same test with the 7D and the image of the 5DIII was better. In other words there is a perceptible gain in image quality. I kept the 7DII because I still will be able to use the F 2.8 aperture of the lens that will not be possible since the 5DIII + the 1.4X that would be f 4. Also gain the 10 fms that double that of the 5DIII is great for wildlife photography.

The image quality/noise is not a considerable improvement over the previous one. Otherwise the camera capabilities surpasses in all aspects those of the 7D. There some small details such as now the frame counter goes to 1999 versus 999 in the old one. When setting the date there is an additional option to change the daylight saving time, a GPS, etc.

One peculiarity is that the labeling in the LCD panel is the reverse of that on the 5DIII, yet the Main Dial and the Quick Control Dial works as labeled in the 5DIII. For example, the AF-Drive is labeled as such in the 5DIII but as Drive-AF in the 7DII, yet in both cameras when you press this button to change the AF the Main Dial is used. Somebody at Canon forgot to match the labeling on the LCD panel to correspond to that of the 5DIII so that the first notation AF indicates use of the Main dial and the second notation Drive indicates the use of the Quick Selection Drive. The Rating Button I still consider a waste; no professional will rate the images based on the LCD monitor and it is not programmed to be changed to a more useful function. In the 7D I could use the AF-ON and the AF point selection button to magnify the images in the viewfinder that I found easier than the current method of having to push the Magnifying Button and rotating the Main Dial.

The autofocus is excellente and I will risk to say better than the one on the 5DIII. There a new button surrounding the multi-controller that allow for the quick selection the various AUTOFOCUS modes, a great improvement location over the previous M-Fn button (that is still present) but I still have to push the AF selection button to activate it. Why is that I just cannot have single action button for this function or a way to change the camera's program to do it?

Canon is again cutting cost by offering a Basic Camera Manual plus a full manual as a CD. This is fine for those tha carry a notebook out in the field but I no longer do to save delays in airports as well as cutting weight for carry-ons were restrictions are getting to be less than 18 pounds for some airlines. Overall, this camera has a lot to offer for the money.

Re: Canon 7DII

RobertTheFat — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:33:17 GMT

@Edward wrote:
...
Canon is again cutting cost by offering a Basic Camera Manual plus a full manual as a CD. This is fine for those tha carry a notebook out in the field but I no longer do to save delays in airports as well as cutting weight for carry-ons were restrictions are getting to be less than 18 pounds for some airlines. ...

Would you really want to carry around the printed version of a 547-page manual? I don't think I would.

Hey, consign the manual to your smart phone for use on trips. Check in with your optometrist first, of course, to make sure you'll be able to read it.

Re: Canon 7DII

Edward — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:41:26 GMT

YES, it will not bigger than the current 5DIII manual that I already carry and beats carrying a notebook.

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:42:42 GMT

So... your test shows that the 7d2 takes better pictures of a brickwall than a 5d3 through a 1.4x converter at 400 ISO and digitally enlarged? Good to know.

I don't doubt that the 7D2 is going to fair well in the field, but this "test" above is a prime example of why there is so much misinformation on the internet. I would expect the results of a full frame, a teleconverter, and digitally enlarged to be less sharp than a crop through a top notch lens. Would you not?

I'm glad you like your 7D2, I hope it fits you well. It looks like a great camera for people who shoot fast action. But people don't buy 5D3's to shoot brick walls at ISO 400. They buy it to shoot events at ISO 6400+. Not that the 5D3 can't shoot at low ISO, and the 7D2 can shoot things that aren't moving quickly. But each of these cameras has specific conditions that they were optimally designed for, and you didn't really address either in your experiment.

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:45:42 GMT

I'm curious what kind of information you're looking up while out shooting?

Re: Canon 7DII

Edward — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:55:03 GMT

Mostly wildlife; I find the 5DIII with the 400 mm f 2.8 too short even the 1.4X particularly for birds; it Ok for mammals.

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:04:12 GMT

Understandable. I'd expect that BIF shooters will be, pardon the pun, flocking to the 7D2. But I know a lot of wildlife photogs that shoot in early light and don't get enough fur detail out of crop sensors. Unfortunately there is no perfect camera for all situations.

Re: Canon 7DII

Edward — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:09:53 GMT

Everything is a compromise...I still have two 5DIIIs for those special ocassions. I forgot, I do not carry a phone either since the places where I go my USA phone will not work and rely on the guides for communication.

Re: Canon 7DII

HPL — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:17:46 GMT

Would you really want to carry around the printed version of a 547-page manual? I don't think I would.

Bob
Boston, Massachusetts USA

Absolutely. I carry the manuals for my flashes, lenses and cameras in my main gadget bag ALL the time. I also frequently have the National Geographic Field Guide to the Birds of North America, the Snakes of Texas, and a couple of other field guides either with me in the blind or at least in the vehicle. As cameras become more sophisticated (complicated) there is a greater chance that I will somehow initiate something that don't actually wish to and then will need to find my way back to where I wish to be.

Interestingly, I just had this conversation with CPS and they claim that the reason is in an attempt to go "green". I told them that I thought they could at least make the full manual available in print for those who were willing to pay, perhaps even $15.00 - $25.00 for it. I certainly would be willing to pay that much if need be.

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:36:57 GMT

Again, can you give me an example of the last thing that you looked up that helped you during a shoot? Especially in a lens manual.

I understand that you're sitting around in blinds for long hours and probably enjoy having something to read. Me personally, I'd just take a kindle with me and read an enjoyable book (non-camera related) and have my manual on the Kindle if I needed it for some reason. Or my cell phone, or an iPad, etc. Though I really just can't imagine what I would need to look up if I was shooting a type of photography that I frequently shoot.

Re: Canon 7DII

Edward — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:50:29 GMT

None but when I am doing waterfalls, landscapes, etc, I will check the manual for special settings as well as when using flash or control remotes. When I seat waiting for action I am usually looking around for what is going on...if I get distracted reading something I will miss the action...and this happens ocasionally anyway.

Re: Canon 7DII

RobertTheFat — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:55:00 GMT

@Edward wrote:
YES, [the 547-page 7D2 manual] will not bigger than the current 5DIII manual that I already carry ...

Au contraire, the 5D3 manual (which I happen to have up on the adjacent screen) is only 403 pages.

Re: Canon 7DII

HPL — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 23:31:43 GMT

The short answer is error codes and functions which are useful but I don't use frequently enough to have committed to memory. I try to depend on electronic devices as little as possible so no kindle, no iphone, and nor desire to carry my laptop into the somewhat dangerous (for electronic devices) environments in which I frequently shoot. I mean really, there are at least two threads on this forum bemoaning the battery drain caused when one forgets to turn off the GPS feature on cameras.

And yes, sometimes I do read some in my blinds, although only in very short spurts.

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:01:26 GMT

You're free to carry around any literature you choose. I won't fault you on that. I'm just surprised to find that there are people that actually carry around the manuals in anticipation of a (hopefully) infrequent error code or if they get a sudden itch to explore a new feature. But I suppose I'm not in a position to judge, I doubt I've looked at more than a dozen pages in any of the manuals I've owned.

Re: Canon 7DII

HPL — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:15:34 GMT

A short story and a coupel or three addendums: Several years ago I was doing a one day workshop on nature photography for some middle schoolers. There were two other pros on the property at the time. After a brief introduction the first question I asked was "show of hands, who has their manuals with them?". I held up my hand as did the other two pros (who were watching before heading out on their own) and maybe three or four of the kids held up theirs. Now, the three of us who use our cameras all the time thought it was smart to carry the manuals, but the kids who probably only pick up the camera a few days a month didn't. I can't tell you how many people I know who were unaware that their cameras had dioptric adjustments, and i even ran into one person at a workshop I was attending who didn't realize that the plastic thing surrounding the front of her lens could be twisted, removed, turned around, and used as a LENS SHADE. Also had a friend shooting with me who couldn't understand why my camera (30D) had a faster burst rate than his (50D). I had to show him how to set it on "high". The majority of the folks I see out and about have no idea what proper camera technique is and yet, at least in the full manuals, there are graphics showing the proper way to hold a camera and so on. The one piece of advice I always give is "read your manual, carry it in the gadget bag for quick reference."

Re: Canon 7DII

KeithR — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:33:48 GMT

Edward wrote:
The image quality/noise is not a considerable improvement over the previous one.

It's about a stop better than the 7D at high ISO at the image level; and considerably cleaner at lower ISOs - none of this "noisy skies at 100 ISO" nonsense that we used to hear about the 7D.

Re: Canon 7DII

KeithR — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:18:06 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
Would you really want to carry around the printed version of a 547-page manual?
Yep...

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:41:58 GMT

@KeithR wrote:
Edward wrote:
The image quality/noise is not a considerable improvement over the previous one.
It's about a stop better than the 7D at high ISO at the image level; and considerably cleaner at lower ISOs - none of this "noisy skies at 100 ISO" nonsense that we used to hear about the 7D.

THat's interesting. Several of the discussions I poked my nose in on there was a lot of talk about them being fairly similar at the mid ISOs (1600-3200) and a modest increase at 12.8k+. Admitantly I haven't really followed the pixel peeping closely, just hearing what the grumbles are. I am glad they fixed the noisy sky issue though, that was a bit embarrassing.

Re: Canon 7DII

Skirball — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:42:27 GMT

@KeithR wrote:
@RobertTheFat wrote:
Would you really want to carry around the printed version of a 547-page manual?
Yep...

This hasn't ceased to amaze me.

Re: Canon 7DII

HPL — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:36:15 GMT

Guess we're just not as smart as you.