topic grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

depshado — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 03:03:09 GMT

I have been trying different lens and my photos are no way near as good as my Mark II. I am very disappointed with my purchase of this Mark IV after hearing so many reviews of how great it is I have yet to see a landscape or wildlife image that comes close to my Mark II.

I can't upload an image(raw file because a file is too large)

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

wq9nsc — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 03:21:37 GMT

Your exposure settings were interesting according to the EXIF data, why did you close down aperture to f32? It also appeals mildly overexposed to me with some loss of contrast from that over-exposure. With the exposure settings chosen, the ISO was up to 12,800 which is going to create some noise or grain. Sometimes conditions force ISO that high (I shoot fast action sports that require fast shutter speed and am often in poorly lit venues so my 1DX bodies often get pushed into this range) but I can't see the need for ISO 12,800 given what I think you were trying to accomplish under bright daylight conditions.

It appears you were shooting that from a pretty far distance with a 300mm lens and dropping to f8 would have still provided well over 100 feet of depth of field while putting your ISO at a far more reasonable 3200. I don't know which lens you were using but at 1/100 shutter speed it would need to either have IS or be on a good tripod to avoid motion blur reducing the ultimate resolution of which your camera is capable.

Rodger

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

depshado — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 04:17:46 GMT

Thank you for looking at my post and file. I was a bit excited about the eagle and did not look at my settings. It was shot near sunset in the shade.

I will attempt again with diligence to my settings. I was afraid that he would fly so I tried my trusted AV settings but this is a new baby for me. this image I thought would have been sharper being in full sunlight

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

Waddizzle — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 04:41:52 GMT

@depshado wrote:
Thank you for looking at my post and file. I was a bit excited about the eagle and did not look at my settings. It was shot near sunset in the shade.
I will attempt again with diligence to my settings. I was afraid that he would fly so I tried my trusted AV settings but this is a new baby for me. this image I thought would have been sharper being in full sunlight

What happens if you attempt to take less challenging photos, and at focal lengths under 100mm?

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

wq9nsc — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 04:49:48 GMT

You are welcome and I know EXACTLY what you mean about the excitement of photographing wildlife. It is very easy to be so concerned about capturing the moment that it is far too easy to overlook getting optimal settings and framing. I have definitely been there and done that!

Although my setup is different from tradition and what many others use and recommend, I have found that with the excellent auto ISO algorithm in current Canon bodies that manually setting aperture and shutter speed while using auto ISO works very well for action shots. This is particularly true with a longer telephoto lens. My rationale is simple, below a certain shutter speed I am not going to be able to freeze motion and without IS or a tripod in use there is a minimum shutter speed to avoid camera shake even if you aren't trying to freeze motion. So for most of my shooting, shutter speed is going to be set to easily freeze motion. Most of the time I am using Canon long primes that are about as sharp wide open as they are with the aperture stepped down slightly. So unless the lighting is excellent or for some reason I need to increase depth of field I will set the aperture wide open or within 1 or 2 stops when I need a little more DoF or want exact focus tracking to be less critical. ISO is the third leg of the exposure triangle and I let the camera set that, with the shutter speed and aperture fixed by me I know that the camera is going to choose the lowest ISO number it can to provide a standard exposure with best possible image quality.

I started shooting sports using manual aperture and shutter speed with auto ISO several years ago and have carried it over into wildlife. I don't know about Nikon or other makes but the Canon auto ISO algorithm performs without flaw. I do shoot everything in RAW so that I can make minor exposure adjustments in post but the camera metering gets it very close if not perfect in the great majority of cases. When I had a 1D Mark II, I shot mostly in shutter priority to freeze sports motion and depending upon lighting set the ISO to as high as possible without sacrificing too much image quality but with the newer bodies with auto ISO I really prefer the control of pure manual so that the camera is going to provide the level of motion freezing and depth of field totally under my control.

This is one of many eagle photos I shot last month, the only exposure setting changes I made throughout the day was closing down the aperture a bit at times from the wide open f5.6 setting of my 800 mm lens when lighting permitted. But ultimately you will need to try different setups and choose what works best for you. Ultimately the old adage of "haste makes waste" really applies to photography and it is better to miss some captures completely if that leads to much higher quality captures in your mix of photos.

Good luck, the 5D IV is a very nice camera and you will love it once you and it are on the same page 🙂

Rodger

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

depshado — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 04:57:21 GMT

well, less challenging shots look GREAT! But that isn't as exciting as birds of prey

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

wq9nsc — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 04:58:52 GMT

I love that setting with your 4 legged friends, that is a beautiful location!

You have a difficult lighting situation in that shot with strong low angle cross lighting that creates a really high dynamic range between highlight and shadow. I have shot a number of late afternoon soccer games in the same lighting conditions where you end up with simultaneous blown highlights and shadows that are in the noise. That is one area where our human eyes are still better than the best sensor but we are also dynamic range challenged under those conditions.

In this case, you were also pushing the need for depth of field with subjects extending from the foreground into the background area so this pushed you into a narrow aperture which again shot your ISO level higher than you wanted. This is one of the areas where you have to make a choice and an alternative would have been to frame it differently and feature either the foreground subject or the two in the background instead of trying to capture all three. With closely spaced subjects and less need for depth, you could have opened up the aperture since you wouldn't need as much depth of field and this would have brought your ISO down much lower resulting in a more detailed image.

I am not sure where you are located, but when you next have good daylight try some images with the aperture much wider (maybe f5.6 or f8) and a shutter speed of somewhere in the 1/250 to 1/500 range and this should give you an ISO around 3,200 or lower under good lighting with much less grain and greatly increased detail.

Rodger

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

ebiggs1 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 12:54:16 GMT

I noticed a couple things with the buck close up. Which 150-600mm super zoom do you have? I also see you are on LR 4. I don't think LR4 has lens correction for any of the newer 150-600mm zooms. A SS of 1/500 with a 600mm shot is bare minimum and 1/1000 should be your target SS when using such a long FL lens. Of course that's a general rule of thumb.

If you have one of the first versions of the 150-600mm zooms, they aren't quite as sharp as the latest models.

Here is how I use my Sigma 150-600mm Sport lens. I use Av so I recommend you get out of P mode. Set ISO around 800 but be ready to change it if needed. Set the Av aperture to open or even f8. I like auto WB but I shoot Raw 100% of the time so WB isn't a factor. Check to see if your version of LR has lens correction for your lens. If not it is time to upgrade your LR version. You can set a sharpness setting inside the Mk IV but it is better to do it in LR and better yet in Photoshop with unsharp mask.

In LR use a preset to have LR do lens correction on every thing you import to it. Then in the Develop module go to Detail and adjust the sharpness. You know how to do that? Alt key and masking on Windows?

The 5D Mk IV is a fantastic camera capable of outstanding photos but you have to feed it correctly for the best result. The better gear you get the more difficult it is to get the best because they record so much detail. Kinda like the good with the bad. Also remember the lens is the key. It is far better to have a great lens and a poor camera than a fantastic camera and a poor lens. This also includes you providing a proper steady shot with the best settings and editing.

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

ebiggs1 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 12:59:42 GMT

This shot was with my 150-600mm Sigma Sport. 1DX, Sigma 150-600mm S at 600mm, f6.3, SS 1/2000, ISO 800. Raw file format. Lens correction and slight unsharp mask in LR and WB correction. That's all. It is a 50+% crop of the original.

It is always better to get closer. That is even more important than a better lens.

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

depshado — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:53:02 GMT

Thank you for the advice on my Tamron lens and yes I have found that it is not as sharp as I would like. I do try and get close. I was pretty close to that buck, within75ft. I will try the settings you suggested with LR. I use to use LR 2 only for batch processing and now am trying it with my new MArk IV photos. The new camera and software is really pushing up my learning curve

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

depshado — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:53:38 GMT

great detail

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

ebiggs1 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 17:27:36 GMT

"Thank you for the advice on my Tamron lens..."

You are certainly welcome. I hope a bit rubs off and helps you some. I have tested the big Tammy G2 150-600mm, new model, it is in my opinion the sharpest of the bunch right now. If you need any, and I can help, tips on LR let me know.

Always remember the camera is basically a storage device. You and your lens tell it what to store.

I had a Mk II and I loved it. I had a Mk III and I loved it, too. I retired before I could love a Mk IV ! There is no doubt you will love your Mk IV. As far as taking pictures it is probably a better choice than any of the 1 series cameras are.

Although they are just storage devices there is a bit of gadgetry going on inside.

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

wq9nsc — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 17:51:30 GMT

Ernie captured beautiful detail with his hawk capture, it is a great image! In my true professional setting as a marketing prof I taught retail management early in my academic career. The answer to the question of: "what are the three most important attributes in determining the profitability of a retail store" is the same answer to the question of what are the three most important attributes in capturing a good wildlife (or sports) photo, LOCATION, location, and location. Nothing beats being close enough to a subject that you aren't at the limits of focal length and with poor light placement. Location really constrains what you can do in terms of framing and other aspects of the capture decision.

But often a lot of cropping is required and when that happens, an exposure triangle that keeps you at the lower end of the ISO range is going to be extremely helpful. The hawk below was shot from much further away than I would like but I could sense he was skittish. When shooting wildlife I will often get a couple of captures as soon as I am in reasonable range and then try to sneak into a more optimal location but Mr. Hawk was pretty much through with his meal and as soon as I moved from my initial location he took off. I shot this at ISO 250 with a 1DX III and EF 400 f2.8 lens plus 1.4X extender resulting in a 560mm f4 combination that put me at ISO 250 with my selected 1/1600 shutter speed.

The first image is a 6.5% crop from the frame, the second is the complete frame down sampled to fit within forum posting size limit. With a low ISO, you can take a pretty severe crop and still retain quite a bit of detail. Closer would have been MUCH better but this gives you an idea of what you can do with cropping when the lower ISO lets your sensor produce its best.

Rodger

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

RockbambooPF — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 23:10:07 GMT

Your eagle's slightly out of focus. There's no sharp point, and this is a common issue with the 5D Mark IV that I am trying to get them to fix. Shoot through your LCD (rather than viewfinder) to see the difference.

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

RockbambooPF — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 23:11:43 GMT

This is soft and has minor fringing on the beak and branches. A better lens might help!

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

ebiggs1 — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:55:01 GMT

"There's no sharp point, and this is a common issue with the 5D Mark IV ..."

There are only two factors that determine IQ in the sensors ability to capture a photo.

Resolution, which relates to pixel density, pixel size and capture of fine detail. And, secondly, sensor uniformity, meaning the extent to which QC can eliminate errant pixels and manufacturing flaws. In both these specs the 5D Mk IV excels with its 30MP sensor.

"... I am trying to get them to fix."

However, where you go wrong is resolution and color accuracy is also dependent on the lenses used. In others words use a poor lens and the sensor can not reach its full potential. Some lenses are not designed to fully exploit the potential of a 5D Mk IV. In the case of the eagle shot the lens used is the best lens made in the 800mm FL class. This brings us to critical focus which is the biggest single challenge of all. Again, not a 5D Mk IV issue but a human issue.

Re: grainy raw files with brand new 5D Mark IV

ebiggs1 — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:57:03 GMT

"This is soft and has minor fringing on the beak and branches. A better lens might help!"

Which sample photo are you referencing here?