topic Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

lmJustSayin — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:51:48 GMT

Howdy Folks,

I have finally been progressing with my interest in photography. I am trying to see what direction I should go next as far as camera.

My typical interest is landscapes, wildlife (animals), and the typical action shots of my family and kids. I have been trying to stay around the golden hours for picture time.

Current gear:

Rebel T2i
Canon 70-200 f/4 IS USM L
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4-5.6

Would it be worth upgrading at this point to a full frame camera?

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

TCampbell — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:20:36 GMT

A full-fame camera would give you a nice boost in ISO performance but this assumes you shoot in low light at high ISO. But a full-frame camera also completely changes the angle of view. You would not be able to use your "EF-S" lens on a full-frame body.

Also keep in mind if you use flash, that full-frame cameras don't have a built-in flash ... they require external hot-shoe mounted flash or off-camera flash (and a way to trigger it).

A crop-frame body such as an 80D would also give you a nice performance boost (not quite as good in the low ISO department as a full-frame body).

A full-frame camera isn't necessarily "better" ... it's just "different".

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

wq9nsc — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 22:45:37 GMT

I stayed with my 1D Mark II (1.3x crop) for MANY years only recently upgrading it to a 1DX Mark II and the primary reason was for the much better ISO sensitivity and far better AF for sports in low light. Although the 1DM2 was an "oddball" 1.3X crop in between the classic full frame and common APS-C sensor size the crop factor was never a concern with my old camera and it will stay in service with my 14 year old daughter - of course now I have to buy some glass for her 🙂

I wouldn't let sensor crop factor be the deciding factor, the improvement for me was primarily from great advancement in sensor, processing, and AF technology and not from the sensor size/crop factor. In decent lighting my now ancient in DSLR terms 1DM2 still produces excellent images like it always did but it can't keep up in the ISO/noise department and for extreme blowups the extra pixel density of the newer model will be useful. If I hadn't become frustrated by trying to get decent results in a poorly lit indoor sports facility I probably would have procrastinated a bit longer about finally upgrading to modern technology.

I agree with Tim that the 80D would be a logical step up in terms of performance but I would also throw out that although more expensive than the 80D body your first upgrade might be to the excellent Canon 24-70 f2.8 lens for your current camera body which provides good lower light coverage of an important range AND will be useful with any Canon DSLR body you upgrade to in the future. You might consider carefully looking at a similar lens from other makers but I am a big fan of Canon glass. Overwhelmingly my two most frequently used lenses are my 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 and if I am taking a camera somewhere no matter how light I travel these two will be with me.

My view has always been that you budget for lens first and body second and a great lens on a good camera body is going to provide consistently superior results to a top end body with a so so lens. More advanced bodies can provide better results under more difficult conditions but superior optics are superior in all conditions. Your 70-200 F4.0 is an excellent choice and it would pair well with Canon's 24-70 offering.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

lmJustSayin — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:04:32 GMT

Understood. I appreciate the info! Never thought I would get this excited about photography, but it is pretty addicting.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

wq9nsc — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:16:19 GMT

In terms of addictions it is a very good addiction!

My twin addictions are photography and vintage ham radio gear restoration and photograhpy is the safer of the two addictions. I can't electrocute myself with the camera and I am unlikely to suffer back injury lifting a camera and lens.

It will be interesting to see where this hobby and associated industry goes in the future since the great majority feel no need to move beyond a smartphone for images and a friend in consumer electronics told me many have the same concern in that industry because for many highly compressed audio files heard through earbuds of dubious quality are all many consumers experience or care to experience. Technology has provided an incredible array of tools and quality to the budding photographer at the same time it seems interest has dropped in owning and using a "real" camera.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

shadowsports — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:41:22 GMT

My current bodies of choice:

77D - APS-C

6D2 - FF

I'd only do an 80D if video was more important than still images.

If you add a 24-70 lens to your kit and stick with APS-C, you'll still have good wide coverage with the 10-18mm (great lens!). I sold mine last week to a guy that had a 70D.

You'll then have coverage for 10-18, 38-112mm, 80 (fixed) and 112-320mm.

Tim pointed out the biggest differences between APS-C and FF sensors. ISO and angle of view.

wq9nsc also makes an excellent point regarding the benefits of investing in good quality glass over a higher priced body. It's true, glass matters.

The reason why I like my 6D2 so much.. because of its articulating screen. I had it on my T6s and can't do without it now. If I was a pro, I'd have to give in and get a 5D4, but I wouldn't be happy with the fixed screen.

Budget is also a factor. But like wq9nsc said the technology advancements alone that have ocurred in the last 8 years will make going from a Digic4 > something more current a worthwhile investment.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

Waddizzle — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:43:47 GMT

"My current bodies of choice:

77D - APS-C

6D2 - FF

I'd only do an 80D if video was more important than still images."

I would beg to differ. There are other significant differences between the 80D and 77D. Aside from the 77D having a smaller body and battery life, the AF systems are significantly different.

While both bodies have 45 cross-type AF points, 27 of those points can focus at f/8 in the 80D, compared to none in the 77D.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

lmJustSayin — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 21:40:15 GMT

I appreciate the info everyone. Really helps me open my options. I am just hoping that this new 70-200 gets me out far enough when trying to capture deer/elk.

One thing I have noticed tends to happen on my pictures is they do look blurred. Not sure if that has something to do with IS. Again, I am definitley just getting into photography and have a lot of learning ahead of me.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

wq9nsc — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 22:07:28 GMT

IS will only help you with camera shake, it makes it easier to get sharp handheld photos particularly with telephoto lenses. But with wildlife it is ususally the subject itself that is moving and IS won't help with that problem. So you are back to the exposure triangle of shutter speed, aperture, and ISO and to freeze wildlife movement you will have to go with a fairly fast shutter speed which will sometimes force you into a higher ISO than you wish and also forces you to shoot with the aperture near wide open since most wildlife doesn't cooperate by sitting out in the bright sun. With aperture wide open depth of field decreases so point of optimal focus becomes more critical and you are probably best choosing a single focus point for most wildlife shots unless it is truly moving rapidly making it hard to track with the lens.

90% of my recent shooting has been in an indoor soccer arena and the best overall setting for me is ISO 16,000, shutter 1/500, and aperture F4.0 (the best I can do with my 70-200 F2.8 with the 1.4X extender). It works pretty well but I would be happier with a little faster shutter speed, the aperture stepped down slightly for more depth of field, and ISO of 6,400 or less (a little better detail and dynamic range). But the conditions dictate the settings and these are as good as it gets for me until the team moves outside for the regular Spring season. And because I am still getting used to the best settings for capturing and processing images with this new body I am pretty sure there is a lot more capability in the camera than I have gotten out of it thus far. When compared to some of the action shots I have captured in recent years with my much older Canon 1DM2 it is a little depressing what I have achieved with the 1DX M2 thus far but then I realize that the older body cannot produce usable action images under the lighting conditions and I know I will also get better in utilizing the new camera.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

Waddizzle — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 22:29:21 GMT

@lmJustSayin wrote:
I appreciate the info everyone. Really helps me open my options. I am just hoping that this new 70-200 gets me out far enough when trying to capture deer/elk.

One thing I have noticed tends to happen on my pictures is they do look blurred. Not sure if that has something to do with IS. Again, I am definitley just getting into photography and have a lot of learning ahead of me.

The 70-200mm f/4 lens is a little short for most wildlife photography. But, if you're shooting big game, maybe not. It really depends upon how close you can get. Raising your shutter speed might be the cure for blurry images. I have not seen them.

I am not a fan of creeping up on big beasts in the wild. I have seen what a bull moose can do to the front of car with one hit. Cracked the radiator. Made a real big mess, too.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

RobertTheFat — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:20:41 GMT

@lmJustSayin wrote:
Howdy Folks,

I have finally been progressing with my interest in photography. I am trying to see what direction I should go next as far as camera.

My typical interest is landscapes, wildlife (animals), and the typical action shots of my family and kids. I have been trying to stay around the golden hours for picture time.

Current gear:

Rebel T2i
Canon 70-200 f/4 IS USM L
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4-5.6

Would it be worth upgrading at this point to a full frame camera?

Since I actually faced the same question two years age, I might as well weigh in. I figured my wife was ready for an upgrade to her T2i, and I was (and am) down on Rebels because they don't have AFMA. A FF camera was out of the question, because she has back problems and is sensitive to a camera's weight. But I wanted a professional-quality camera that wouldn't go obsolete soon. So I bought her a 7D Mk II, which has worked out well. She already had the right walkaround lens, the Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, and enough other APS-C lenses to cover most contingencies, so lenses weren't a consideration.

Just another data point, for what it's worth.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

coachboz68 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:09:37 GMT

@lmJustSayin wrote:
Howdy Folks,

I have finally been progressing with my interest in photography. I am trying to see what direction I should go next as far as camera.
...
Would it be worth upgrading at this point to a full frame camera?

Having recently been through this for myself, my friend, and my daughter, here was my thought process.

First, I bought a 7D in late 2009 (or early 2010... can't remember exactly) and just recently upgraded to the 1DXII. I did get sucked into the whole mirrorless debate, but ultimately stayed with Canon because of the great glass they make that I already owned. The two primary ones I use are the 24-70 2.8 L and the 70-200 2.8 L. The 24-70 has become my workhorse lens for general family stuff. The 70-200 is for the sports I shoot (gymnastics, volleyball, and football).

When I moved to the 1DXII (FF) I did not miss the length for indoor sports, but for football, I definitely missed it, so will get the 1.4X converter. Losing the f-stops at night games will require the higher ISO that I get in the 1DXII, which compared to my old 7D is beyond comparison.

Because the cameras you are going to be looking at are mostly all really good in and of themselves, I recommend you ask yourself the question of what do you love the most, then optimze for that. For me, its fast action sports shooting (which often happens in low light) which made my decision easier. Of course, budget matters, and for this purchase I decided to self justify it (lie to myself! 😉 by looking at the lifetime investment.

If it's fast moving wildlife you're after, and you don't want the heavy price tag of the 1DXII, I'd at least take a look at the 7DII. But if it's largely sedentary wildlife, then you should optimize for that (I don't have great experience there as I do fast-moving stuff mostly). Point is, if you can narrow down what you really LOVE, it might be a little easier to optimize for the body.

As others have stated, you can never go wrong with great lenses on any body!

Good luck.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

wq9nsc — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:20:43 GMT

Coach,

You will find that the 70-200 2.8 is so sharp that it is also very usable with the Canon 2X converter. Of course this loses two full stops which will be a problem with poorly lit night games but will provide the extra reach during day games and well lighted events. I have shot quite a few outside soccer games using the 70-200 2.8 and 2X combo with my old 1D Mark II body. Having the 1.4X and 2.0X adds a lot of versatility to the compatible Canon telephoto primes and zoom lenses and the 2.0X gives me a little more freedom in choosing my placement when shooting outdoor matches under good light.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

coachboz68 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:28:50 GMT

Thanks. I'm going to rent them both for a few games and see how it goes.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

lmJustSayin — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 00:16:34 GMT

I greatly appreciate everyones input. I feel like I may just stick with the t2i, get the 24-70L and then really pracitce on getting my settings down.

Here is one example from my trip last weekend.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

ebiggs1 — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:31:00 GMT

"I feel like I may just stick with the t2i, get the 24-70L and then really pracitce on getting my settings down."

First practicing with setting is the best thing you can do. I don't agree with some fo the advice you have received.

There are more reasons to upgrade your camera than just one or two. The newer model like the 80D has way better supporting electronics. DIGIC 6 Image Processor for instance or the 3.0" 1.04m-Dot Vari-Angle Touchscreen.

The ef 24-70mm f2.8L lens is my favorite lens maybe of all time but for you the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens is a better choice. The EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens is also one of my favorite lens of all time and a good choice for you. It works well with the 1.4 tel-con. Forget the 2.0x version, it penalizes you too much.

If you have the 80D and these two lens suggestions there won't be much you can't do. The EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens is going to deliver good WA to normal use and the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM with the 1.4x tel-con will yield a 450mm equivalent f4 tele. What's not to like?

Take a close look at the EOS 80D with the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens for starters. It's a constant f2.8 did I mention that? Then add the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM with the 1.4x tel-con.

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

shadowsports — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 02:11:41 GMT

@shadowsports wrote:

"My current bodies of choice:

77D - APS-C
6D2 - FF

I'd only do an 80D if video was more important than still images."

@Waddizzle wrote:

I would beg to differ. There are other significant differences between the 80D and 77D. Aside from the 77D having a smaller body and battery life, the AF systems are significantly different.

While both bodies have 45 cross-type AF points, 27 of those points can focus at f/8 in the 80D, compared to none in the 77D.

I'm not seeing that in the specs? Specs say 27 AF points at F8 for both ?? Did I miss something?

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

Waddizzle — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 03:13:13 GMT

@shadowsports wrote:
@shadowsports wrote:

"My current bodies of choice:

77D - APS-C
6D2 - FF

I'd only do an 80D if video was more important than still images."

@Waddizzle wrote:

I would beg to differ. There are other significant differences between the 80D and 77D. Aside from the 77D having a smaller body and battery life, the AF systems are significantly different.

While both bodies have 45 cross-type AF points, 27 of those points can focus at f/8 in the 80D, compared to none in the 77D.

I'm not seeing that in the specs? Specs say 27 AF points at F8 for both ?? Did I miss something?

That is news to me. I stand corrected. Must have it mixed up with the T7i

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

ebiggs1 — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 16:20:50 GMT

Re: Suggested Upgrades from Rebel T2i

lmJustSayin — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:10:30 GMT

So I have been researching like crazy this past week since I started the thread. I tried to focus on specifically what I wanted to do photography wise.

Main type of photography: Landscapes/Wildlife and some occasional astrophotography/low light scenarios.

Secondary: low light cityscapes

Price range wise for a body is looking between 1k-2.5k. Really not looking to move over that hump on the body.

Future Lens Collection: I definitley have my eyes set on the 24-70L and eventually a longer reaching lens for wildlife.

After my rendevous this weekend at our cabin up in Kansas, I did notice that I am still having issues with capturing all of the deer/birds/turkey I am still getting quite a bit of blurred images. When you zoom in on the deer I captured from about 300 yards for instance, the fur is just aweful looking. Time was just before dawn and I did bring the ISO up to compensate for loss of light. The deer was not moving either.I suppose this is just lack of experience on my end and not the equipment :). I was using the T2i combined with the 70-200 f4.