topic Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

bsharp321 — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 04:11:37 GMT

I'm currently shooting wildlife with a Canon 6D + 70-200mm II with a 1.4 III. Not much reach with this combination so I've considered purchasing the 100-400mm II to use with the 6D. Instead, should I hold out and wait for the 7d III and use the aformentioned lens combination? This combination would give me (200*1.4*1.6) 448mm at F4. Obviously, the combo of the 7D III with the 100-400 II would be ideal but its a cost thing.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

ScottyP — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 05:01:49 GMT

@bsharp321 wrote:
I'm currently shooting wildlife with a Canon 6D + 70-200mm II with a 1.4 III. Not much reach with this combination so I've considered purchasing the 100-400mm II to use with the 6D. Instead, should I hold out and wait for the 7d III and use the aformentioned lens combination? This combination would give me (200*1.4*1.6) 448mm at F4. Obviously, the combo of the 7D III with the 100-400 II would be ideal but its a cost thing.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

7d2, not 7d3 right?

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

bsharp321 — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 05:20:23 GMT

Actually, thinking about holding out for the 7D Mark III, not 7D II.

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

RobertTheFat — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 05:26:15 GMT

bsharp321 wrote:
Actually, thinking about holding out for the 7D Mark III, not 7D II.

What new features and enhanced capabilities will the Mark III have? (Don't worry about any non-disclosure agreements you may have signed; we won't rat you out.)

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

Waddizzle — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 07:27:56 GMT

@bsharp321 wrote:
Actually, thinking about holding out for the 7D Mark III, not 7D II.

The EF 100-400 Mark II is a very good lens. I would not wait for a 7D Mark III. Although, it seems reasonable to expect an upgrade within a year to 18 months. Can you afford to wait that long?

When you use the 100-400 by itself, you will have a great combo with the 6D or the 7D2. When you use it with the 1.4x III, then you will AF points, because the working aperture range changes. With the 7D2, you will be reduced to just one AF point, the center AF point, which is the only f/8 AF point. The 6D has no f/8 AF points, so using the 1.4x III with the 6D means you will completely lose autofocus.

You're stuck between a rock and a hard place, in a way. So, forget about using the extender with either camera body with certain lenses, and your problems go away. The 80D and the 6D2 each offer 27 f/8 AF points, making them quite useful when using an extender.

If reach is what you want, then consider the 150-600mm lenses from Tamron and Sigma. I would only go for versions that allow the user to upgrade the firmware, without having to send the lens to the factory. This means the Sigma "C", the Sigma "S", or the Tamron "G2".

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

Bryston3bsst — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:50:58 GMT

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the 7d III and use the aformentioned lens combination? This combination would give me (200*1.4*1.6) 448mm at F4.

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Using a full frame lens on a crop body camera does not increase focal length. Instead, it decreases the field of view. The 100-400 will still be a 100-400.

I am quite sure you will hear otherwise, but if you do a bit of research you will gain a better understanding of the effect crop bodies have on the field of view. Here is a pretty good article that may help you to understand.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/understanding-crop-factor

I shoot wildlife and sports action with a 6D and the 100-400 II and I think I get some pretty good results. I would suggest you try that combination first before buying another body.

Here are a couple of recent shots of mine.

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

ebiggs1 — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:54:03 GMT

I would opt for the 7D Mk II right now. Never wait. Too many missed opportunities to wait. The 7d2 is an all around better camera than either of the 6D offerings. Especially if you are truly a wildlife photographer. Out in the boonies the 7D2 is the choice. If not and you are a casual wildlife shooter almost any camera body will do. Even an 80D which I also would buy over either 6D.

It is true the physical FL of a lens can not change once the lens element is made. However, the equivalent FL does depending one what body you use it on. If you go Rebel series and get a 1.6x factor or Medium format and get a .7 factor. The equivalency of the lens changes. It is a good idea to use AOV as the determining factor when choosing lenses.

The Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens is a good lens. Possibly a great lens. But I consider it too short for wildlife unless you can get close. I sold my 1st version and 2nd version in favor of the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sports Lens. The big Siggy wil get you an equivalent 960mm of FL. That should be enough for anybody. Canon is supposed to come out with their own Canon EF 200-600mm f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Lens in early 2018. About time! I will have one!

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

ebiggs1 — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:56:13 GMT

BTW, I also think the 7D Mk III is supposed to come out with the Canon EF 200-600mm f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Lens.

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

RobertTheFat — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 20:26:07 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
BTW, I also think the 7D Mk III is supposed to come out with the Canon EF 200-600mm f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Lens.

And where did you get that prediction, Ernie? (Same rules: If you signed a non-disclosure agreement, we won't rat you out.)

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

ebiggs1 — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:45:10 GMT

A little birdie told me. That's my story and I am going to stick with it.

Canon got the patent for the 200-600mil in 2016.

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

bsharp321 — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 02:50:40 GMT

Thanks so much for all the excellent responses. I'm chomping at the bit to upgrade but I don't want to be dissapointed. Image quality is huge in my book. Nice to hear about the possible release of a larger Canon zoom. That might be something to hold out for.

Regards,

Tim

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

Waddizzle — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 07:35:42 GMT

@bsharp321 wrote:
I'm chomping at the bit to upgrade but I don't want to be dissapointed. Image quality is huge in my book.
Tim

A 7D2 is not going to suddenly give you a boost in image quality. I feel cropped shots with a 6D look at least as good as I uncropped shots from a 7D2.

It will give you less reason to use an extender. Of course, there will be a small price to pay. Increased noise, compared to a 6D. But, the noise is pretty insignificant at ISO 800 and lower. Some would say ISO 1600 and lower. But, you will notice a definite difference compared to a 6D as ISO settings rise.

The main advantage that a 7D2 could give you is a reason to retire your 1.4x extender. At 200mm, your 6D and extender would be equivalent to 280mm, and some loss in AF speed. With a 7D2 and no extender, you would get a 320mm focal length, and no loss in AF speed. Again, nothing comes for free.

I think the 7D2 was, and still is, a fantastic camera. It is a “in my bag” camera body for action photography on a bright sunny day. The AF system was one of the best in any Canon DSLR. However, that AF performance edge is being overshadowed by Canon’s next generation of AF system, which can be found in the 80D and 6D Mark II.

I want most of my action photography exposed at 1/1000, or faster. I shoot in M mode, with Auto ISO, which is capped at ISO 12800 in my 6D, and ISO 3200 in my 7D2. Basically, this means I can shoot two stops faster with the 6D compared to the 7D2. This is why the 7D2 is usually not the first camera out of the bag. It would if I were using the 70-200mm f/s.8, but more times than not, I am shooting with the slower 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L.

Or, I am shooting with a Sigma 150-600mm “C”, which is even slower. With the Sigma 150-600mm, I prefer cropping shots with the 6D, because my ISO is typically ranging from 800-6400. The 6D shots simply look better because of the lower noise. I think you would find a 7D2 to be a step backwards, when it comes to noise.

I say invest in the 100-400mm Mark II, instead of the 7D2. You will love the lens.

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

bsharp321 — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 02:14:19 GMT

Fantastic information! So much to consider. Thanks so much for your help!

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

cyyuen2000 — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 11:06:58 GMT

Does anyone has experience with 7D Mark ii with Canon 70-200mm/F2.8 ii on extender 2X version iii?

How's autofoucs and picture quality in a good daylight ? Do I have to use tripod or it can be hand hold?

Can I use this combination for wildlife like bird photo?

Or is the following option has better result?

Canon 7D Mark ii with Canon 400mm F/5.6L?

Thanks

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

Waddizzle — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:08:12 GMT

@cyyuen2000 wrote:
Does anyone has experience with 7D Mark ii with Canon 70-200mm/F2.8 ii on extender 2X version iii?

How's autofoucs and picture quality in a good daylight ? Do I have to use tripod or it can be hand hold?

Can I use this combination for wildlife like bird photo?

Or is the following option has better result?

Canon 7D Mark ii with Canon 400mm F/5.6L?

Thanks

I have never used that extender with that lens. I already own the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM. I have used the 70-200mm f/2.8L II with the 1.4x III, and it was great on a 6D2. I just tried it out, and did not go out taking any real photos. I would expect great results with a 7D2, but do not be surprised if AF speed takes a minor hit.

The zoom combo can be easily handheld. But, it will take a little practice at the super telephoto formal lengths, 400mm or greater. Shooting with super telephoto focal lengths comes with a learning curve, and some adjustments

The 400mm f/5.6L could be easily handheld, too. But, it would take a little more practice than a zoom. Using a super telephoto is like looking at the world through a straw. When shooting handheld, it can be easy to lose your bearings. With a zoom lens, you can back out, get your bearings, and zoom back it. With the long prime, you may need to back away from the viewfinder, get your bearings, and then try to find your target, which you will miss sometimes.

A 400mm of focal length, combined with a 1.6x crop factor, adds up to 640mm of effective focal length. That is a pretty long straw to look through. For that reason, I would suggest some means of support, either a tripod if you are stationary, or a monopod if you are moving around a lot. The support will help keep the lens pointed at the subject more easily than if you were handholding, which would require to you to acquire the subject more often.

Ultimately, whether or not to use support depends upon what you are shooting, too. I would be more inclined to use support when shooting sports, because the lens will stay more or less parallel to the ground. With birds-in-flight, most types of support can be a hindrance when you are moving around a lot, and needing to point the lens upwards.

Like I said, if you have never used a super telephoto lens, then you will go through a small period of adjustments, and climb a short learning curve. My best advice is to get out and shoot, and use a VERY fast shutter speed. With the ASP-C sensor in th 7D2, I would recommend a MINIMUM shutter speed of 1/(2*FL), or one over twice the focal length you are using.

Re: Advise Needed: 100-400 II or 7D Mark III, wildlife

cyyuen2000 — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:41:56 GMT

Thank you!!