topic Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews.. in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews....

secondlevel — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:41:36 GMT

I backed away from buying the new 6D Mark ii based on all the negative reviews that it received. However, yesterday I saw the DXO scores and the camera did ok. That made me start to wonder if I was missing something. Can really produce a usable image at ISO 40,000?

I currenly own a 60D, 77D, and the original 6D. I feel I have most situations that I encounter covered with these models. Nevertheless, with the cost down on it and I already have lens and flashes I wonder about it. I would only need the body.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

shadowsports — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 13:25:59 GMT

Greetings,

Everyone has their own standards, experiences and opinions. I have decades of experience with Canon, and am a former T6s owner. An enthusiast who does not rely on his camera to put food on the table.

6d2, my reasons for purchase. I was looking to move up to FF and a 5dMKx wasn't in the cards. Not because of the price, but because it doesn't have a articulating screen. Silly, I know. This is a feature I really enjoy and I hope it happens by the time I'm ready to step up again. Maybe it never will on a true pro body?

I read the same reviews as you. They gave me pause, but I continued to research. I didn't want to invest in a older 6d. (Which I fully acknowledge is a great camera) After more research, I bought the body. Its fantastic. As mentioned, we all have different expectations. It checked the majority of boxes for me and got me to FF at a reasonable price point, improving on what I had and meeting the criteria I had for upgrade. The 6d2 is an improvement over the 6d. Canon has improved almost every aspect of the original platform. For someone coming from APS-C, its a nice upgrade. The upgraded AF alone helped to sell me.

However, for someone who already owns a entry level FF, the feature set and modest upgrades of the 6d2 might not feel like a big step up, or justify the cost for the value being received. This depends on the user and his/hers expectations. Also the intended use of the camera.

The camera has already been to Europe with me, a few weddings (as a guest) and to family celebrations. Used under various shooting conditions, weather and more. Its perfomed well and I really like it. When my casual snaps at my niece's wedding came back better than their professional photographers... I felt even better. He had a 6d with a Sigma Art lens. I had a 6d2 with the same lens. He looked like he knew what he was doing. But my images are the ones the family wants to frame. It was a bit of luck coupled with a great body and my modest (non professional) experience. And lets not forget that Sigma lens which I love as well. I still classify myself as an enthusiast. I'm unloading my crop equipment. Had 2 great years with it. Body is gone, have some lenses left that will eventually go to good homes. Its a hobby, I just need one good body and the 6d2 is it for now.

Side by side, the body is an improvement from the original. But will it give you the true bump in performnace is something only you can probably answer.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

Waddizzle — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:13:18 GMT

I do not understand half the negative reviews on 6D Mark II. The camera has a handful of significant improvements.

The most talked about improvement is the AF system. Yes, it seems to be identical to the AF system in the 80D, and so it does not seem to fully cover the viewfinder, side to side. Actually, the AF points cover the same angle of view as the 80D. Yes, that means it is not as wide, but this is not the first time Canon has done this. It was done with some 1D and 1Ds bodies, which shared the same focus system, but one used and APS-H sensor, and the other used a FF sensor. The AF grid seemed smaller in the FF body viewfinder, and the same complaints were made.

The camera has a number of other improvements. One would be the articulating screen. To me, the only good thing about it is that can turn it around, and not worry about it getting damaged. I do most of my shooting with post-shot preview disabled, to extend battery life, anyway. I use the top LCD, and the viewfinder, for most shooting.

Another talked about improvement is the 30% increase in resolution, 20MP to 26MP. Canon increased the resolution, wtihout significantly reducing the pixel size. I would assume that they figured out how to reduce the space between the pixels. Increasing the coverage of the sensor surface, means an increase in accuracy in detail, and it shows up in the images< IMHo.

Another improvement, and one which I think is perhaps the most significant, is the addition of in-camera, 5-axis image stabilization. I cannot recall if this can be disabled in the menus, or not. I would need to check. But, one this is certain. I seem to get sharper photos with the 6D2, than with the 6D, most especially when panning. I cannot say how many stops of improvement it affords the shooter, but it looks absolutely great at 1/1600 of a second on a monopod with a 600mm lens.

Another feature that Canon added was exposure compensation in manual mode, which had always been my main complaint with the original 6D. I like to shoot manual mode, with Auto ISO, and could not dial in compensation when shooting in low light. The 6D2 allows you to dial in both compensation and bracketing in manual mode.

Another complaint about the 6D2 has been the top shutter speed of 1/4000, and not 1/8000. I do not know why it was left out of either the original or the Mark !!. Honestly, I have only had one occasion to want, or need, a shutter speed faster than 1/4000. I was shooting at f/1.4 in bright sunlight. So, I dialed back to f/1.8, and got more of the subject in focus. Background blur is very easy to add with Photoshop.

And, I think I have said enough for now.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

soorajkaippilly — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:47:40 GMT

6d Mark II - The Worst Camera I ever used. Poor image details.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

secondlevel — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:43:06 GMT

The in-body stabilization is for video only. It is an electronic stabilization to help movie makers. It doesn’t affect stills.

Thank you for your comments. If the 6D ii came out at the current cost I might have bought one or the reviews might have been better. I held it in my hands at the camera store but that wasn’t enough time to change my mind from the bad reviews.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

secondlevel — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:56:46 GMT

Thank you for commenting. I really appreciate it. I needed to hear from actual owners. I watched the press release that Canon did for it and after I got over my horror about how bad it was (one of the presenters actually said this is a great camera for someone wanting better photos than a smart phone! Clearly not the typical buyer for a full frame camera). Another presenter keep speaking about when he shot film and there are a new generation that never shot film and doesn’t care about what happened yesterday. I feel they never spoke to me. I am a semi-pro that shoot events on weekends. Anyway, your comments help clear some of my confusion. I might take a trip to my local camera store to try it again. Thank you.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

TTMartin — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:06:38 GMT

@secondlevel wrote:
I backed away from buying the new 6D Mark ii based on all the negative reviews that it received. However, yesterday I saw the DXO scores and the camera did ok. That made me start to wonder if I was missing something. Can really produce a usable image at ISO 40,000?

I currenly own a 60D, 77D, and the original 6D. I feel I have most situations that I encounter covered with these models. Nevertheless, with the cost down on it and I already have lens and flashes I wonder about it. I would only need the body.

The 6D Mk II would be similar to your 6D in dynamic range except the dual-pixel sensor and increase in megapixels will make what noise you do have finer and more grain-like. Canon did improve the 6D MK II's high ISO capability, but, I'd say ISO 40,000 is a bit of a stretch.

The other improvements are the frame rate (biggest down fall of the original 6D in my opinion), f/8 AF system, articulating display, etc.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

TTMartin — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:12:23 GMT

Waddizzle is seems like the 6D Mk II has some of the features of Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer built-in. This Canon article implies that it can add those to the RAW file. I was hoping you could test that and let us know if that is the case.

EOS 6D Mark II for Landscape Photography

Enhanced tools for sharpening of image details, for both RAW and JPEG images:

Fine Detail Picture Style, with greater and more precise sharpening dialed-in. This is a big asset for in-camera JPEG shooting, and an excellent tool for more RAW image detail when files are processed in Canon’s Digital Photo Professional software.
Added sharpening commands for all other Picture Style settings…“Fineness” and “Threshold” are new commands not present in the original EOS 6D camera, giving sharpening control similar to the “Unsharp Mask” command in some image-editing software.
Diffraction Correction is built-in (can be turned on or off, on camera’s menu). Added sharpening applied to counter both the effects of lens softening at small apertures which are common in landscape shooting (f/16, f/22, etc.), as well as providing specific sharpening to counter the softening effect of the low-pass filter immediately in front of the EOS 6D Mark II’s image sensor (when shooting at wider apertures).
Linear Distortion Correction, to counter lens-induced bending of straight lines such as horizons with wide-angle zooms and other lenses. Again, this can be turned on or off by the photographer (it’s off by default; note that in-camera distortion correction will slightly crop the final image file).

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

Waddizzle — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:54:35 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
Waddizzle is seems like the 6D Mk II has some of the features of Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer built-in. This Canon article implies that it can add those to the RAW file. I was hoping you could test that and let us know if that is the case.

EOS 6D Mark II for Landscape Photography

Enhanced tools for sharpening of image details, for both RAW and JPEG images:
Fine Detail Picture Style, with greater and more precise sharpening dialed-in. This is a big asset for in-camera JPEG shooting, and an excellent tool for more RAW image detail when files are processed in Canon’s Digital Photo Professional software.
Added sharpening commands for all other Picture Style settings…“Fineness” and “Threshold” are new commands not present in the original EOS 6D camera, giving sharpening control similar to the “Unsharp Mask” command in some image-editing software.
Diffraction Correction is built-in (can be turned on or off, on camera’s menu). Added sharpening applied to counter both the effects of lens softening at small apertures which are common in landscape shooting (f/16, f/22, etc.), as well as providing specific sharpening to counter the softening effect of the low-pass filter immediately in front of the EOS 6D Mark II’s image sensor (when shooting at wider apertures).
Linear Distortion Correction, to counter lens-induced bending of straight lines such as horizons with wide-angle zooms and other lenses. Again, this can be turned on or off by the photographer (it’s off by default; note that in-camera distortion correction will slightly crop the final image file).

I’ll read up on that and will try to figure out some tests over the weekend. 😄

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

Waddizzle — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:06:48 GMT

@secondlevel wrote:
Thank you for commenting. I really appreciate it. I needed to hear from actual owners. I watched the press release that Canon did for it and after I got over my horror about how bad it was (one of the presenters actually said this is a great camera for someone wanting better photos than a smart phone! Clearly not the typical buyer for a full frame camera). Another presenter keep speaking about when he shot film and there are a new generation that never shot film and doesn’t care about what happened yesterday. I feel they never spoke to me. I am a semi-pro that shoot events on weekends. Anyway, your comments help clear some of my confusion. I might take a trip to my local camera store to try it again. Thank you.

Here is an enlightening article about AF points.

Canon EOS DSLR Autofocus Explained

There seems to be some advantages to having a high number of densely packed AF points, than having the same number spread out, and covering more of the view frame. More densely packed AF points can track in AI Servo mode better than less densely packed AF points.

I have all but concluded that the 6D2 can track subjects in AI Servo mode at least as well as the 7D2, if not better. In fact, my keeper rate with the 6D2 is MUCH higher than with the 7D2. Sometimes the 7D2 is a little soft, but the 6D2 is nearly always tack sharp.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

Waddizzle — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 17:50:44 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
Waddizzle is seems like the 6D Mk II has some of the features of Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer built-in. This Canon article implies that it can add those to the RAW file. I was hoping you could test that and let us know if that is the case.

EOS 6D Mark II for Landscape Photography

Having MAJOR issues running DPP 4.7.2. It keeps crashing, anytime I do something that caues it to write to disk, generating a JPEG, saving edits, or even updating preferences. My Windows 10 recently applied some updates, as well as some firmware updates from Dell.

Apparently, this recent Win10 update, from October, has disrupted a LOT of applications, so I am going to assume my issues are with the update, and not so much with DPP 4.7.2 which was released at about the same time.

BUT, I did manage to squeeze out a screen shot from DPP. I'm still trying to figure out how to do a screen shot of the camera. Notice the settings for RAW images only..

There are extra settings in the Camera [RED 1] menus, under the "Lens Aberration Correction" menu, to correct Distortion and Diffraction, in addition to Peripheral Illumination and Chromatic Aberration adjustments.'

There are extra settlings in the Camera [RED 3] menus, under the "Picture Style" menu, to make the style settings, which now include enhanced Sharpness settings. Each Picture Style has its' own set of settings.

It seems DPP allows you to apply your own Picture Style to a RAW file, if you desire, just as you always could. The Picture Style settings have an enhanced Sharpness settling, that is similar to an "Unsharp Mask", instead of a single slider.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

RobertTheFat — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:10:50 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@TTMartin wrote:
Waddizzle is seems like the 6D Mk II has some of the features of Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer built-in. This Canon article implies that it can add those to the RAW file. I was hoping you could test that and let us know if that is the case.

EOS 6D Mark II for Landscape Photography

Having MAJOR issues running DPP 4.7.2. It keeps crashing, anytime I do something that caues it to write to disk, generating a JPEG, saving edits, or even updating preferences. My Windows 10 recently applied some updates, as well as some firmware updates from Dell.

Apparently, this recent Win10 update, from October, has disrupted a LOT of applications, so I am going to assume my issues are with the update, and not so much with DPP 4.7.2 which was released at about the same time.

BUT, I did manage to squeeze out a screen shot from DPP. I'm still trying to figure out how to do a screen shot of the camera. Notice the settings for RAW images only..

There are extra settings in the Camera [RED 1] menus, under the "Lens Aberration Correction" menu, to correct Distortion and Diffraction, in addition to Peripheral Illumination and Chromatic Aberration adjustments.'

There are extra settlings in the Camera [RED 3] menus, under the "Picture Style" menu, to make the style settings, which now include enhanced Sharpness settings. Each Picture Style has its' own set of settings.

It seems DPP allows you to apply your own Picture Style to a RAW file, if you desire, just as you always could. The Picture Style settings have an enhanced Sharpness settling, that is similar to an "Unsharp Mask", instead of a single slider.

That Windows 10 update did cause me some heartburn, notably with some of my network settings. But it didn't have any obvious effects on DPP 4.7.

Just a data point. Not saying it couldn't have caused the effects you experienced. I'm running DPP on a Lenovo computer, rather than a Dell. Maybe that matters.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

ebiggs1 — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:38:16 GMT

"The camera has a handful of significant improvements."

Perhaps a toddles handful. Certainly not enough to make a current 6D owner want it or buy it. Not have a 6D it is a good starter FF. However if I were to buy something in this class it would be the 80D, not a 6D2.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

RobertTheFat — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 22:02:18 GMT

ebiggs1 wrote:
"The camera has a handful of significant improvements."

Perhaps a toddles handful. Certainly not enough to make a current 6D owner want it or buy it. Not have a 6D it is a good starter FF. However if I were to buy something in this class it would be the 80D, not a 6D2.

IOW, don't buy an apple when a fine, well ripened orange is available. If you're going FF, an 80D, good as it is, is no substitute for a 6D2. The term "in this class" hardly applies.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

Waddizzle — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 22:08:57 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"The camera has a handful of significant improvements."

Perhaps a toddles handful. Certainly not enough to make a current 6D owner want it or buy it. Not have a 6D it is a good starter FF. However if I were to buy something in this class it would be the 80D, not a 6D2.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. The 6D Mark II is not for you. I compared the 5D3, 5D4, and 6D2.

Curiously, there is more than one forum member who owns a 6D and did exactly that, bought a 6D2. Maybe, once you upgrade to a full frame camera body, then you are less inclined to purchase an APS-C sensor body. It's kind of like once you go 1 Series, you don't look back.

I think the "toddles handful" of improvements are pretty good, IMHO, of course.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

TTMartin — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 22:37:41 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@TTMartin wrote:
Waddizzle is seems like the 6D Mk II has some of the features of Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer built-in. This Canon article implies that it can add those to the RAW file. I was hoping you could test that and let us know if that is the case.

EOS 6D Mark II for Landscape Photography

Having MAJOR issues running DPP 4.7.2. It keeps crashing, anytime I do something that caues it to write to disk, generating a JPEG, saving edits, or even updating preferences. My Windows 10 recently applied some updates, as well as some firmware updates from Dell.

Apparently, this recent Win10 update, from October, has disrupted a LOT of applications, so I am going to assume my issues are with the update, and not so much with DPP 4.7.2 which was released at about the same time.

BUT, I did manage to squeeze out a screen shot from DPP. I'm still trying to figure out how to do a screen shot of the camera. Notice the settings for RAW images only..

There are extra settings in the Camera [RED 1] menus, under the "Lens Aberration Correction" menu, to correct Distortion and Diffraction, in addition to Peripheral Illumination and Chromatic Aberration adjustments.'

There are extra settlings in the Camera [RED 3] menus, under the "Picture Style" menu, to make the style settings, which now include enhanced Sharpness settings. Each Picture Style has its' own set of settings.

It seems DPP allows you to apply your own Picture Style to a RAW file, if you desire, just as you always could. The Picture Style settings have an enhanced Sharpness settling, that is similar to an "Unsharp Mask", instead of a single slider.

I wasn't talking about adding Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO) in DPP, you've been able to do that for years. What the article implies is that the 6D Mk II will bake DLO processing into the RAW file. This would be pretty significant as you could add DLO processing at the time of capture and still process your photos in Lightroom.

EDIT: For those not familiar with what DLO is supposed to do.

Principle of the Digital Lens Optimizer
After passing the lens and various filters, the light has diverted from the ideal condition as it reaches the image sensor where the image will be formed. This is due to the influence of factors such as aberrations, diffraction, and the low-pass filter. If these influences can be compensated for using highly precise and specific data, the result ideally would be the original and optimal image. This is the unique principle behind the Digital Lens Optimizer. Factors contributing to optical image deterioration as the light passes through the lenses and filters in the camera were identified and converted into mathematical functions (optical transfer functions (OTF)). By applying the inverse functions to the captured image, the state of the light (image quality) can be returned to approach the state that the incident light had before entering the camera.
The factors such as aberrations, diffraction, and low-pass filter influence differ for different lenses and cameras, and they also are dependent on shooting parameters. The Digital Lens Optimizer therefore uses inverse functions that are carefully optimized and based on precise data. This makes it possible to compensate even for complex and asymmetric aberrations such as coma.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

shadowsports — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 15:12:01 GMT

I need to re-read this thread. I looked at the referenced article, but haven't looked on my camera menu's yet to see the settings you guys are discussing which I'm sure I'll have, running the latest FW.

I uninstalled DPP 4.6.3 and installed 4.7.2 today. I just batch processed about 100 photos with a recipie, then used convert and save to JPG at about 1/2 max rez. I didn't have any issues.

My machine specs:

Gigabyte MB Z97X-UD5H\Corsair RM850w, 4790K, 16GB Vengeance, GTX970 FTW SC 4GB ACX 2.0, 850 Pro's RAID0 (boot), Black 1TB, Win10 Pro, Obsidian 450D - 1709 Fall Creators Update

For those having issues, you can use System Restore to go back to an earlier date, point in time prior to having issues. This will resolve any recent conflicts you might have had with a windows update. I would refrain from going back to an earlier build of the OS.

I am primarily a Windows user. I have Mac experience as well, but don't care for them personally. Since I didn't have a lot of previous expereince with upgrading DPP, EOS and Pic Style Editior, I decided to uninstall each first, restart and install the newest version cleanly. I haven't plugged my camera into the PC since I did my FW update last week. I typically use a card reader for transfers.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

Waddizzle — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 10:32:50 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
Waddizzle is seems like the 6D Mk II has some of the features of Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer built-in. This Canon article implies that it can add those to the RAW file. I was hoping you could test that and let us know if that is the case.

EOS 6D Mark II for Landscape Photography

Enhanced tools for sharpening of image details, for both RAW and JPEG images:
Fine Detail Picture Style, with greater and more precise sharpening dialed-in. This is a big asset for in-camera JPEG shooting, and an excellent tool for more RAW image detail when files are processed in Canon’s Digital Photo Professional software.
Added sharpening commands for all other Picture Style settings…“Fineness” and “Threshold” are new commands not present in the original EOS 6D camera, giving sharpening control similar to the “Unsharp Mask” command in some image-editing software.
Diffraction Correction is built-in (can be turned on or off, on camera’s menu). Added sharpening applied to counter both the effects of lens softening at small apertures which are common in landscape shooting (f/16, f/22, etc.), as well as providing specific sharpening to counter the softening effect of the low-pass filter immediately in front of the EOS 6D Mark II’s image sensor (when shooting at wider apertures).
Linear Distortion Correction, to counter lens-induced bending of straight lines such as horizons with wide-angle zooms and other lenses. Again, this can be turned on or off by the photographer (it’s off by default; note that in-camera distortion correction will slightly crop the final image file).
"I wasn't talking about adding Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO) in DPP, you've been able to do that for years. What the article implies is that the 6D Mk II will bake DLO processing into the RAW file. This would be pretty significant as you could add DLO processing at the time of capture and still process your photos in Lightroom."

It was my understanding that what you were talking about is built-into the new Diffraction Correction setting [ON/OFF]. It can be found in the Camera Menu that I described.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

ebiggs1 — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 00:01:46 GMT

Robert, "The term "in this class" hardly applies."

Sure it does. They are both enthusiasts bodies. The 80D offering more with the one exception of a larger sensor. But you are one of those guys that thinks the Sun and Moon sets on FF so this is likely lost on you.

Re: 6D Mark ii- Are the owners satisfied? I backed away from it based on the bad internet reviews..

RobertTheFat — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 01:09:30 GMT

ebiggs1 wrote:
Robert, "The term "in this class" hardly applies."

Sure it does. They are both enthusiasts bodies. The 80D offering more with the one exception of a larger sensor. But you are one of those guys that thinks the Sun and Moon sets on FF so this is likely lost on you.

You keep trying to paint me with that brush. But of the seven functioning digital cameras in this house (there were eight, but I gave one to my daughter last week), only one is a FF. How does that square with your perception of me?

Basically, you're blaming me for recognizing the difference between a FF camera and an APS-C camera. Am I supposed to be blind to that difference?