topic Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS 90D Autofocus Issues with EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Sat, 08 Jul 2023 13:21:38 GMT

I recently bought a Canon EOS 90D body.

Unfortunately I'm encountering focus issues when using the body with the Canon 100-400mm L IS II lens.

When I'm trying to focus (using OVF) on an object (like a race car for instance) that's coming towards to me, the camera/lens won't focus.

The settings on my camera are: Autofocus > AI Servo, shutterspeed: 1/1000 - 1/2000. Normally those shutterspeeds should deliver me a sharp picture. But that's not the case.

When I attach the lens to a Canon 6D or 5D Mark IV I don't have any problems at all; the focus issues don't happen with those two bodies.

I know when a subject moves closer to or further away of the camera, the sensor can have some difficulties in focussing. But with the fast shutter speeds I should get sharp images, which is not happening with the 90D body.

Anyone an idea how I can solve this issue?

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

Waddizzle — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:35:06 GMT

Have you tested it using a tripod to photograph stationary objects, preferably at varying distances? If not, try it.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

Waddizzle — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:37:45 GMT

@canon_eos_90D wrote:

I know when a subject moves closer to or further away of the camera, the sensor can have some difficulties in focussing. But with the fast shutter speeds I should get sharp images, which is not happening with the 90D body.

Anyone an idea how I can solve this issue?

Your conclusion is simply not true. A fast shutter speed does NOT correct auto focusing issues.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:56:28 GMT

I know - but with every other camera and compareble lens it works without these issues!
I only want to say that the chance of getting a sharper image may be greater by using a shutter speed to freeze te action.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:59:12 GMT

When the cars are coming to me, they vary in distance...
Using a tripod at motorsports isn't that handy (it ain't wildlife photography...).
The lens and body were mounted on a monopod. We experimented with and without the monopod.

Same results... 😞

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

shadowsports — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:26:22 GMT

Greetings,

I can't speak to the 90D specifically, I have a 6D2.

However, I had a similar issue earlier this year at a indoor go-kart event. This was the first time I ever saw my camera struggle. I would think AI-Servo would be your best bet coupled with a fast shutter speed. Outside on a sunny day f11 or higher should yield sharp photos. A freeze frame of the action with relatively sharp focus fore and aft of your subject.

**EDIT.. knowing now you were on a mono-pod

My question would be... were you using IS? If so, which mode?

See pages 8, 9 and 10

ef100-400f45-56lisiiusm-im-e.pdf (c-wss.com)

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 16:32:54 GMT

Hello Shadowsports

We've tried AI Servo and AI Focus, but the results stayed the same...

Thanks for the PDF regarding the lens. I'm going to read it thoroughly... but with the settings 1-2-3 we've also been playing...

Strange that the lens works faultless on the 6D and 5DIV...

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 00:16:09 GMT

Do you have a filter on the lens?

Some posters have reported problems that are resolved by removing the filter.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

ebiggs1 — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 15:11:25 GMT

This is worth repeating, "A fast shutter speed does NOT correct auto focusing issues." In fact it may make it more difficult for the camera. IMHO, I would never use Ai-focus. Ai-servo can be of some help but it will fire even if focus is not achieved. Result, blurry photos! You might want to just use the reliable standard One shot and just the center focus point.

BTW, "Do you have a filter on the lens?" If so remove it. The 100-400mm doesn't do well with filters even good filters.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

Waddizzle — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:25:18 GMT

@canon_eos_90D wrote:

I know when a subject moves closer to or further away of the camera, the sensor can have some difficulties in focussing. But with the fast shutter speeds I should get sharp images, which is not happening with the 90D body.

Anyone an idea how I can solve this issue?

Your conclusion is simply not true. A fast shutter speed does NOT correct auto focusing issues.

Oh, yeah. That part about fast shutter speeds being able to correct focusing distance issues is not true, either. Can you post a sample photo of your issue. Please include the SXIF data, exposure settings, camera AF mode and AF point settings, etc.

Until you do that, I am forced to assume that your issue is operator error, and lack of experience and expertise.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:36:29 GMT

Thanks for the info!

Will try with the fliter removed from the lens.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:37:49 GMT

Assume what you want...

This is funny!

They warned me already for this kind of comments...

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:52:44 GMT

Can you post a RAW file that you designate as poor focus on Dropbox or One Drive and post the link here?

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:55:58 GMT

Hello John,

Will do.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

wq9nsc — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:46:12 GMT

For situations like that, your 90D MIGHT need to use a single focus point and the one in the center of the array is the desirable point for highest performance of the camera/lens combination. If you can put and keep that single focus point on an area with some contrast, the camera is going to be able to provide its best AF performance in the extremely high closure rate situation you describe.

Every little delay where the camera has to "think" reduces your odds of getting solid AF lock in the short time interval it has to work with a rapidly approaching race car. You know your subject is moving rapidly so do NOT use AI focus mode because that can create a slight delay for the camera to decide to switch from one shot to servo mode as it begins to find a focus target, AI servo is the proper choice for your shooting situation since the subject is always moving. That is the same reason for defining explicitly the focus point the camera uses even though that does add to the requirement that you frame perfectly because otherwise the processor is trying to choose the best AF point out of the array and will often start switching AF points preventing focus lock in the short time period it has available. It is a case of you having to work with the camera body to do the best both of you can do with a VERY difficult subject.

I have never shot a 90D but I have shot a lot of different sports with my 1DX, 1DX II, and 1DX III bodies which have the best servo AF performance that Canon can deliver and even with those bodies for tough shooting conditions I have to work with the camera to give it the best chance. I use single point AF quite often and although I shoot primarily with the "great white" primes which focus extremely quickly, when possible I have the lens pre-focused at a good starting point. This isn't something I can do all of the time with field sports but in many cases you can give it a good starting point since you know when and where the car will appear. When appropriate, I use the focus range limiters on the lens to further improve system performance.

An approaching car at speed is an extremely difficult subject for any AF system given the speed of closure. The 90D is a new body but it may still be lacking in AF performance to the older but more expensive 6D and 5DIV bodies. A lot of road course shots are taken with cars entering and exiting turns and other "course features" not just for the drama but also because it is far easier for the camera AF system. You may have to fine tune the AF servo settings for tracking sensitivity under the AF custom menu to make it more responsive to very high speed of closure situations, fortunately you can adjust and test those settings with traffic running at fast interstate speed to get a good feel for how the adjustment affects AF performance.

Always start tracking the car as quickly as possible to give the servo system time to lock and adjust to closure speed before it reaches the spot where you want to capture images. Based upon how far ahead you can track the vehicle and the type of track MAY cause you to rethink the sensitivity settings for the AF servo system under custom function II-2 and also the settings under the same tab for focus versus release bias.

Rodger

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

canon_eos_90D — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:31:49 GMT

Thank you very much Rodger.
That's something to read and experiment!

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

Waddizzle — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:54:22 GMT

@canon_eos_90D wrote:
Assume what you want...
This is funny!

They warned me already for this kind of comments...

Post a sample photo that demonstrates the problem then. I'll believe it when I see it. Blame your own previous comments for me doubting your claims.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

wq9nsc — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 20:30:38 GMT

You are VERY welcome!

Most of the time when I shoot a different type of sport or at a new venue, I find that I will modify my expected setup a little bit during the pre-event warmup activities and a bit more if I shoot there again. There are a lot of variables with the different bodies, lenses, events, etc. so iterating to optimal often takes a few times and suggestions in the manual and on the web are just a starting point.

Good luck with your setup! And you will also need to experiment with which part of the car provides the most consistent focus spot for the camera. I run into this issue in field sports where some uniforms provide a large area where AF works well while others require you to target a small area of the uniform for fast and consistent focus.

With field sports, sometimes I can use a larger array of focus points but much of the time I need to be able to direct the camera to choose exactly which player in a dynamically changing group and that usually means a single point with more of the workload transferred to me. I know that Canon is working once again with eye tracking technology to detect where the photographer is looking in order to automatically choose the focus point but I doubt if that technology is going to work well for most sports where you are constantly looking between what is happening now and what is probably going to be important next.

I saw a humorous comment that the eye tracking focus really won't work well for boudoir photographers who may be staring where they shouldn't

Rodger

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

Waddizzle — Sat, 12 Jun 2021 21:55:44 GMT

"For situations like that, your 90D MIGHT need to use a single focus point and the one in the center of the array is the desirable point for highest performance of the camera/lens combination. If you can put and keep that single focus point on an area with some contrast, the camera is going to be able to provide its best AF performance in the extremely high closure rate situation you describe."

What is being said, but not being emphasized is that you need to keep that AF point on the same area. When you are using a single AF point, it is crucial that you keep it on the same part of the subject. All the AF system "sees" is what is under that single AF point. If the area keeps changing, if the goal posts keep moving, then camera may get a little lost trying to lock focus.

Using 9-pt AF mode allows an adjacent AF point to detect the center AF point slipping off of the target, and can kick in to pickup the slack until you can get the center AF point back on target. The larger zone AF modes work in a similar way, but just with more AF points around the center AF point. More gives you a little more leeway when you slip off target.

However, on the 90D there are only two AF point choices that allow you to select the starting point for AF focus tracking: either 1 AF point enabled, or all 45 AF points enabled. The 9-pt AF Assist mode is not featured on the 90D. You would need to use the Large Zone AF modes.

Re: Canon EOS 90D - Canon EF 100-400mm L IS II USM

ebiggs1 — Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:48:42 GMT

"For situations like that, your 90D MIGHT need to use a single focus point and the one in the center ..."

Correct and why I usually recommend people use this set up. A lot of the time we tend to over think it because our cameras can do so much when in reality the simplest solution is the answer. Its hard to beat One shot and the center focus point.