topic Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Sat, 08 May 2021 23:54:35 GMT

I have been trying to photograph hummingbirds. R5, EF100-400mm L ƒ5.6 w/adapter ring. Usual settings around ƒ5.6, ISO 400, 1/2000; remote RF trigger. Each time I adjust the settings, I resave it to "C1" custom settings (having learned that if the camera goes to sleep you lose any adjustments you made.)

As they are fast, darting creatures, the AF setitngs on the R5 have been useless. I have now resorted to manually focusing on a spot where they seem to hover over the feeder before plunging in.

However, when the R5 goes to sleep, and then wakes up when I click the remote, the focus is gone! It is so completely off you can only tell if a bird is there by some extra-color in the completely burred-beyond-recognition scene. Worthless. So, AF is worthless in this scenario. Now MF seems to be worthless as well. Any idea/thoughts/ suggestions?

There is nothing in the manual about this. There's barely much explanation (even in the "advanced" manual on manual focus.) There was only this zen-like line in the manual regarding "manual focus" and "power off": "The camera’s auto power off counter does not count time spent adjusting the focus with a lens’s electronic focusing ring." !!! If anyone can do a Vulcan mind meld with the author and understand what s/he means by this, that would be fantastic. My IQ isn't high enough to figure that one out.

My guess is that in fact, you are not actually focusing the lens anymore, such as with earlier EF lenses or the older film-era FD lenses, but are just changing the focus setting of the camera electronics. That would explain why it loses the focus every time it wakes up, and also suggests that these settings can't be saved (which seems ridiculous.) If it were really a mechanical setting, it would not be able to change the setting by itself...

Anybody else have this or similar issues? Thoughts? Solutions welcome!!! Thanks!

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

Waddizzle — Sun, 09 May 2021 01:11:53 GMT

"My guess is that in fact, you are not actually focusing the lens anymore, such as with earlier EF lenses or the older film-era FD lenses, but are just changing the focus setting of the camera electronics."

The above statement is inconsistent with your previous statement that you are using an EF mount lens.

The camera does not save any focus information in the C1 custom shooting modes. I suggest you set your camera for BBF.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Sun, 09 May 2021 03:11:36 GMT

My apologies for the entry oversight and lack of additional detail....

I meant to write EF-camera lenses or the older film-era FD-camera lenses, meaning when mounted on those EF cameras or FD cameras. In my attempt to be brieft, I left out some additional information such as:

1) This is a phenomenon with the R5 (at least, assume for the other "R" cameras, as I only have this one) as this is certainly not a problem with my 5D-MKIII or any other DSLR I've owned. You manually focus. You shut the camera off. You turn it back on. Voîla! It is still focused on exactly where you last focused it.

2) However, take the same lens, the same tripod, put the R5 on it, and do the same thing and when you turn it back on, the there is nothing but a frame completely blurred to oblivion.

3) Take the R5, mount an RF 70-200mm L ƒ4, same problem: completely blurred to oblivion. (Can't test it with the 5D and I don't have a reverse adapter.)

Hope I have completed the picture.

Your comment, "the camera doesn't save any focus information" is a statement suggesting that it is, indeed, an electronic focus on the R5 camera, not a mechanical one, as with the same lens on a 5D MKIII, and as such, somehow disengages ithe manual focus ring using it instead to drive digital information to the camera. How else would it not be focused then when you turn it back on? The fact that it is "all electric" yet you can't then save the focus info - hugely important - seems ridiculous then. And Canon says nothing about this anywhere.

And for bird photography - for any other small moving object photography -for time-lapse photography, just to name a couple, this is a huge problem.

BTW, what is "BFF"? (I know you are not referring to relationships between between two high school girls...

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

johniccp — Sun, 09 May 2021 04:07:54 GMT

On my R5, in the Menu, C.Fn4, there is an option to “Retract lens on power off.”

I disabled the feature and then focused on the object furthest away. Power off.

i move the lens barrel to point at an object close to me. Power on. At this point, i heard a clunk as the lens motors moved to focus at a new distance.

disclaimers: i’m inside, you were outside. I used an RF 70-200. I’m using shutter priority.

Hth (hope this helps)

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

Waddizzle — Sun, 09 May 2021 05:48:44 GMT

"I have been trying to photograph hummingbirds. R5, EF100-400mm L ƒ5.6 w/adapter ring. Usual settings around ƒ5.6, ISO 400, 1/2000; remote RF trigger. Each time I adjust the settings, I resave it to "C1" custom settings (having learned that if the camera goes to sleep you lose any adjustments you made.)"

Hmm. You appear to clearly state that you are using an EF mount lens with and mount adapter.

Do you have a copy of the full R5 User Guide? If not, it can be downloaded from Canon USA Support.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/

BTW the term I used was BBF not BFF. It is an acronym for Back Button Focus. Here is a link to in-depth video tutorial on how to use the R5, and what the various menu settings do.

https://youtu.be/uH_pPPKod4g

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 09 May 2021 10:32:47 GMT

Good morning.

Post your question over on the Fred Miranda site. A lot of R5 users over there.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Sun, 09 May 2021 17:50:26 GMT

Somehow, I don't seem to be making myself clear to you...

It doesn't matter what lens you use - EF with an adapter or RF with no adapter- when you use manual focus and the camera is shut off, when it's turned back on, the focus is blurred to oblivion. Take the same EF lens, put it on a 5D MKIII for example, and it works like any other lens I've ever used on any other camera I've ever owned: manual focus on something, shut the camera off, turn it back on, and it's still focused exactly where it was focused before.

CRUX OF THE MATTER: The entire point of the exercise is not to have to stand there and refocus every time the camera is turned back on.

You can't do this for time lapse, for remote triggering, for example.

And, yes, I previously stated that none of the manuals say anything about this. I even quoted a line from the only thing on "manual focus" and "power off" in the advanced user's manual, which was incomprehensible. (Please see paragraph 4 of my original post.)

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Sun, 09 May 2021 17:51:57 GMT

THANKS! Good suggestion. I will try to find it.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

Waddizzle — Sun, 09 May 2021 18:44:02 GMT

@garymak1 wrote:
THANKS! Good suggestion. I will try to find it.

Good luck. You're correct. I have no idea what you have been describing. I think that it should be impossible for a lens to refocus when the AF/MF switch is set to MF. But, you're saying that it refocuses.

Good Luck, resolving your issue..

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 10 May 2021 00:37:43 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:

"Good luck. You're correct. I have no idea what you have been describing. I think that it should be impossible for a lens to refocus when the AF/MF switch is set to MF. But, you're saying that it refocuses."

What I gathered is, as his main complaint, he can't get the R5 to auto focus on a hummingbird when using a remote trigger and his conclusion is that the AF in the R5 isn't working properly. Then, to remedy that, he is trying to pre-focus on a spot manually (lens in manual mode) where he thinks the bird might be at some point. So at some time, after pre-focusing the lens, the R5 goes to sleep or powers off while he is waiting. Then when his target appears he wakes tha R5, takes the shot with his RT, and manual focus has been re-set, i.e., his target area is no longer in focus and all he gets is a blurry shot.

Now, my DSLR's do retain manual focus on an object when switched off then back on, like if you are on a tripod, manually focus on a subject, then turn your DSLR off. When you turn it back on, that subject will still be in focus, just like you left it. With our R6, if you do that, focus is re-set to minimum focus distance and not where you left it. I know this because of this post and it's not something I would do or have ever needed to do, just to be clear.

I made a long winded reply to this threead late last night, with images, and decided to delete it because it didn't really answer the OP's concernes. I've been remote shooting hummingbirds for quite a while, but have never used a remote trigger. Instead, I use either a 15' plain USB cable or 30' USB cable with a repeater, and either the EOS Utility or Helicon Remote, depending on which laptop I'm using. My wife uses WIFi or Bluetooth with the R6, I'm not sure which. I prefer USB because it is more resposive, at least with the 5D mark IV and 7D mark II. With the utilities, you can focus with a mouse click, or if you have a touch screen, a finger while in live view. But you know that 😉

Shot using 30' USB cable w/repeater and EOS Utilty.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

Waddizzle — Mon, 10 May 2021 01:18:35 GMT

@FloridaDrafter wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:

"Good luck. You're correct. I have no idea what you have been describing. I think that it should be impossible for a lens to refocus when the AF/MF switch is set to MF. But, you're saying that it refocuses."
What I gathered is, as his main complaint, he can't get the R5 to auto focus on a hummingbird when using a remote trigger and his conclusion is that the AF in the R5 isn't working properly. Then, to remedy that, he is trying to pre-focus on a spot manually (lens in manual mode) where he thinks the bird might be at some point. So at some time, after pre-focusing the lens, the R5 goes to sleep or powers off while he is waiting. Then when his target appears he wakes tha R5, takes the shot with his RT, and manual focus has been re-set, i.e., his target area is no longer in focus and all he gets is a blurry shot.

"CRUX OF THE MATTER: The entire point of the exercise is not to have to stand there and refocus every time the camera is turned back on."

The OP clearly states that the main isssue is the focus changing when the camera powers up. The simplest solution is to switch the AF/MF lens switch to MF to manually focus the lens, which I have assumed was being done. Maybe not.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 10 May 2021 01:39:22 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:

"The OP clearly states that the main isssue is the focus changing when the camera powers up. The simplest solution is to switch the AF/MF lens switch to MF to manually focus the lens, which I have assumed was being done. Maybe not."

I think he has several issues, but that is his try at resolving the first issue, see 2nd paragraph of his OP:

"As they are fast, darting creatures, the AF setitngs on the R5 have been useless. I have now resorted to manually focusing on a spot where they seem to hover over the feeder before plunging in."

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Mon, 10 May 2021 01:49:56 GMT

Yes. That is exactly correct. To the letter! Thank you. Thank you. And nice images!

Shooting wild life, time lapse, or any such similar situation, the camera will go to sleep after a certain period of time while you are waiting for the "right moment." As anyone who shoots wildlife knows, wildlife is skittish. You just don't stand in front of your camera waiting for (who knows how long) for something to happen so you can push the shutter button on the camera. That's why they make remotes.

Therefore, the issues remain:

1) With a 5d MKIII, I set the camera up, pre-focus manually - and just so no one makes a wrong assumption, the lens is set to "M" - and when the bird, squirrel, woodpeckers, mountain lion, bear or what have you comes along and I am a safe (or, depending on the critter, very safe) distance away, I push the button on the remote and the 5dMKIII wakes up, takes a photo, focused on exactly the same spot where I last focused it before it went to sleep.

2) The same lens on the R5 in the same situation with the same settings on the same tripod turns out wildly blurred out of focus.

3) Therefore, it is not the lens, it is the camera.

Having said that, the cause of the problem then can only be one of four things:

a) the lens is broken. (But it is not as per working fine above and, previously, the same issue is with all my EF and R lenses on the R5) Eliminating that then, three remain:

b) there's a bug in the camera circuitry or software;

c) the Canon engineers just didn't even think about this and there is no function to preserve Manual Focus settings, thus proving once again Ansel Adam's famous dictum;

d) there is a setting or group of settings among the thousands of combinations of settings in the camera you must use and if you don't, the default causes the camera to defocus upon waking and there is absolutley no information on that in the manuals (or at this point, it seems, on the web.)

Now you, FloridaDrafter, seem to be saying that your R5 does retain its focus, in the above situations, so that would lead me to believe "d" above is the issue, and you have apparently obtained the secret sauce... I gratefully in advance ask then, what are your settings?

Thanking you again, and in advance...

PS: Attached are two images. These I would have to say were "lucky" (I have a bunch of "lucky" shots, but I'd prefer to be deliberate rather than lucky...) although the first image suffers from a lack of sharpness due to focus issues.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Mon, 10 May 2021 02:11:34 GMT

"The OP clearly states that the main isssue is the focus changing when the camera powers up. . The simplest solution is to switch the AF/MF lens switch to MF to manually focus the lens, which I have assumed was being done. Maybe not."

Sir, you are still not grasping the issue. FloridaDrifter re-phrased and re-explained it well. Please throw "AF" out of your thinking. This discussion is strictly about MF issues.

Manual Focus is exactly what is being done ONCE. Then after a while, the camera goes to sleep because nothing is happening. Then something starts happening and I trigger the remote to start shooting. And when the camera wakes up I am not near the camera because I'm shooting remotely so it is not possible to "just go refocus it." That's the whole entire point!! The lens, once manually set, should STAY at the exact focus point where you left it when the camera wakes up after going to sleep, or even if you turn the camera off and come back 5 hours later and turn it on again. But it doesn't. That is the entire point: it should.

I just can't explain it any more or in any other way. My apologies.

FloridaDrafter seems to have a combination of settings, shooting in the exact same environment I am, that keeps the camera from changing the manual focus upon waking. I am anxious to learn those settings, as Canon has nothing in the manuals about this issue/problem.

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 10 May 2021 02:23:09 GMT

@garymak1 wrote:
"Yes. That is exactly correct. To the letter! Thank you. Thank you. And nice images!"

Thank you, Gary.

"c) the Canon engineers just didn't even think about this and there is no function to preserve Manual Focus settings, thus proving once again Ansel Adam's famous dictum"

My wife and I were talking about this topic, and we believe this is probably the answer. Maybe to be fixed in a future firmware update. But you have to admit, it's not a feature that people are clamoring for. However, it makes you wonder why it works that way in a DSLR and not a MILC?

"Now you, FloridaDrafter, seem to be saying that your R5 does retain its focus, in the above situations, so that would lead me to believe "d" above is the issue, and you have apparently obtained the secret sauce... I gratefully in advance ask then, what are your settings? "

I think you misread my comment. I have the R6, which I tested for loss of focus after switching off and it failed the test, i.e. lost manual focus after switching off, and the 5D mark IV and 7D mark II, also tested and passed as they retained manual focus position after switching off/on. Sorry you got your hopes up.

Original quote from me:
"Now, my DSLR's do retain manual focus on an object when switched off then back on, like if you are on a tripod, manually focus on a subject, then turn your DSLR off. When you turn it back on, that subject will still be in focus, just like you left it. With our R6, if you do that, focus is re-set to minimum focus distance and not where you left it. I know this because of this post and it's not something I would do or have ever needed to do, just to be clear."

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Mon, 10 May 2021 02:49:52 GMT

@FloridaDrafter wrote:
"c) the Canon engineers just didn't even think about this and there is no function to preserve Manual Focus settings, thus proving once again Ansel Adam's famous dictum"

My wife and I were talking about this topic, and we believe this is probably the answer. Maybe to be fixed in a future firmware update. But you have to admit, it's not a feature that people are clamoring for. However, it makes you wonder why it works that way in a DSLR and not a MILC?

Ugh! No! I was hoping for "d"!!!

However, I respectfully take issue with calling this a "feature." I don't think this should be called a "feature." It is a "missing expected function."

By way of humorous example: imagine you bought a brand new deluxe hi-tech car, and the salesmen goes over all the new features, you like them, you sign the papers and drive off. Then you try to put the AM station on to listen to a game being broadcast only to find it doesn't have AM radio... Would you write to the company and say "I'd like to suggest a new feature in your next model car - AM radio."? Of course not. You'd probably raise a fuss about it, and even if there was a good reason, still be uset that nobody thought to mention it, or include it in the manual. It is assumed from almost 100 years of automobile manufacturing that if it has a radio, it will have "AM." And it is assumed that if it doesn't, they'll point this out since it's fundamental to a car radio. For nearly 100 years of cameras, you set the focus manually and there it stays until you change it yourself again (or switch out of manual mode if the case of AF.) To suddenly eliminate that function, well, I think it's the same as buying a car and finding out later it doesn't have AM radio and nobody tells you about it and the manufacturer doesn't even mention it in the owners manual....

(*BTW, buy a Tesla and try to turn on the AM station on the radio... )

"Now you, FloridaDrafter, seem to be saying that your R5 does retain its focus, in the above situations, so that would lead me to believe "d" above is the issue, and you have apparently obtained the secret sauce... I gratefully in advance ask then, what are your settings? "

I think you misread my comment. I have the R6, which I tested for loss of focus after switching off and it failed the test, i.e. lost manual focus after switching off, and the 5D mark IV and 7D mark II, also tested and passed as they retained manual focus position after switching off/on. Sorry you got your hopes up.

Durn! Yes, I did misread and thought you had an R5. Sigh. However, at least now it seems it's an "R" issue as that's more info. So, neither the R5 or R6 funtions properly then. That's useful info. Thanks.

WELL, I will call Canon directly Tuesday and get a straight answer I hope. I will report back here. Thanks to all who tried to figure it out!! If it is a bug, well, remember, you heard it here first!

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 10 May 2021 03:26:39 GMT

@garymak1 wrote:

Well I'll be damned, Gary. I have your answer! I just tested this on the R6:

Go to Item 4 of the Orange menu set (just past the wrench) "Retract lens on power off" Disable that.

That's the ticket.... Thank you, I'll be here all week, and don't forget to tip your waitress 🙂

I think someone mentioned that earlier, but it somehow got brushed aside, johniccp to be exact!

Newton

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 10 May 2021 03:28:01 GMT

@johniccp wrote:
On my R5, in the Menu, C.Fn4, there is an option to “Retract lens on power off.”
I disabled the feature and then focused on the object furthest away. Power off.
i move the lens barrel to point at an object close to me. Power on. At this point, i heard a clunk as the lens motors moved to focus at a new distance.

disclaimers: i’m inside, you were outside. I used an RF 70-200. I’m using shutter priority.

Hth (hope this helps)

Good call... You nailed it!

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

garymak1 — Mon, 10 May 2021 03:31:26 GMT

Yup! I just tried 3 different lenses - 2EF and 1RF lens - focused manually, then I shut the camera off, turned it back on, and it was focused on the exact spot as when I shut it off.

As per Christoph Walz's famous line in Inglorious Basterds, "That's a bingo!" I'll look back at the thread as I seem to recall that too, but it seemed to be related to something else. In any event, that's the solution! Thanks to all who paticipated and cam eup with this solution. What a weird inscrutable meaning title of a function though. Reading page 829 in the advanced users manual, one would have no idea this is related to this subject, or really to what it was really talking even in reference to some issue with "gear-type STM lenses." Why/how this would be related to this problem?

In any event, problem solved. Now I'll make some notes in the PDF for next time.

Thanks very much to everyone!!!!!!

Re: R5 MANUAL FOCUS ISSUE: Won't save focal distance after shutdown or sleep

FloridaDrafter — Mon, 10 May 2021 03:39:38 GMT

@garymak1

Gary, I started thinking, which usually makes my head hurt, and realized that when turning off the power, it was pulling focus to its minimum. That made me think of "lens retraction" as a reason.