topic New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:34:00 GMT

After owning a t5i with the 18-55 kit lens for four years, I upgraded to the 6D2 with the 24-105mm IS II F4. Big improvement over the t5i. I shoot in raw and use lightroom to process my photos.

I've noticed that when I zoom in 1:1 in lightroom, images that I thought looked sharp when fit to screen have a smooth grainy appearance, especially on skin tones. I didn't really see this with the t5i, it would just be noise instead.

On the t5i I usually kept the ISO at 400 or below, sometimes 800 occasionally. Right before switching over to the 6D2 I discovered how to use manual with the shutter and apature set, and the ISO set to auto to allow it to adjust the exposure for me. I'm doing that on the 6D2 as well, and I set the max ISO to 6400. My shots on the 6D2 have usually been somewhere in the 1000 to 6400 ISO range.

Is going from a crop sensor to a full frame going to give me a grainy skin tones when I zoom in 1:1? What should I expect tranisitioning from a t5i to a 6D2? I just worry what is this going to look like if a client makes a large print with it.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

MikeSowsun — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 20:02:29 GMT

The 6D Mk II should be cleaner. My guess is you are only seeing the difference between zooming in on an 18mp image vs a 24mp image. You are probably zooming in too much.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

Waddizzle — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 21:27:32 GMT

@mlamb01 wrote:
After owning a t5i with the 18-55 kit lens for four years, I upgraded to the 6D2 with the 24-105mm IS II F4. Big improvement over the t5i. I shoot in raw and use lightroom to process my photos.
I've noticed that when I zoom in 1:1 in lightroom, images that I thought looked sharp when fit to screen have a smooth grainy appearance, especially on skin tones. I didn't really see this with the t5i, it would just be noise instead.
On the t5i I usually kept the ISO at 400 or below, sometimes 800 occasionally. Right before switching over to the 6D2 I discovered how to use manual with the shutter and apature set, and the ISO set to auto to allow it to adjust the exposure for me. I'm doing that on the 6D2 as well, and I set the max ISO to 6400. My shots on the 6D2 have usually been somewhere in the 1000 to 6400 ISO range.
Is going from a crop sensor to a full frame going to give me a grainy skin tones when I zoom in 1:1? What should I expect tranisitioning from a t5i to a 6D2? I just worry what is this going to look like if a client makes a large print with it.

Compare how the images look using the Canon DIgital Photo Professional 4 software. Post sample images of the issue.

You should compare photos with similar, if not identical, exposure settings. It goes without saying the the comparison photos shoud be of the same subject,

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 22:11:38 GMT

I have not had the chance to do a comparison like where I take the same shot with each camera. A little later I will post one of the images here. What's the proper protocol for that? Raw file? Jpg? Full resolution?

I'm not saying these images don't look great when fit to screen(25" monitor 2560x1440). But when I cull my images I like to zoom in 1:1 and check the sharpness of the focus. When I look at the face it just seems soft and grainy, but clothing around the neck and face will be sharp.

Is it just going to look softer zooming in 1:1 on a 26 mp full frame image vs an 18 mp crop sensor image? Focusing was done using live view with face tracking mode. I set the 6D2 to do back button focusing, with one shot focusing on.

And yes, I do like to obsess over the details.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 22:43:16 GMT

So I feel like detail is being lost in the shadow areas. Like for example in the shadow on the sides of her jaw. Some things appear very sharp, like the bag she is holding, and some of the strands of hair. But in some of the shadow areas, even on her hands, I feel like there should be more detail visible.

For this image I shot it at:

F4, 50mm, 1/125 ss, and 2500 ISO

Only tweak I made to it in lightroom was setting the exposure to -.34, cropping it slightly, and no lens corrections.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 01:33:34 GMT

A technique to try with Lightroom is to:

1. open up trhe shadows with the shadows slider

2. hold down the shift key and doubl click the word Blacks and Whites in the develop module to set the black and white point

3. hold down the alt key (Windows) or option key (Mac) and move the highlight sllder until you just see white areas appear on the black background

I didn't do anything more that that above here:

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 02:00:46 GMT

Wow, thanks! That really helped to bring out detail in the sweater. Is there a cheat sheet somewhere with all of these lightroom shortcuts?

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 02:17:18 GMT

What version of Lightroom are you using?

The current version of Lr Classic has a very good Auto tool in the develop module.

Selecting Auto and adjusting with the steps I listed above should give you a good starting point to start fine tuning your image.

There are also many good YouTube channels with advice - Scott Kelby and Anthony Morganti are two, along with Adobe's own channel. Julianne Kost is a great instructor.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 02:33:54 GMT

I'm using 6.14, the last one with a perpetual license.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 02:39:33 GMT

Oh. That makes a difference.

I don't think the "good" auto tool was in that version. But the steps I listed above will work.

Others may feel differently, but in your post you talked about "clients".

If you are selling your work surely you can/should spend $10/month for the latest Lightroom. There are many significant/worthwhile features in the latest version. That is MHO. I believe there is a free trial period to see for yourself.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 03:53:03 GMT

This isn't a full time job for me, rather something I do in my spare time. Hasn't really made me any money yet. So I'm really aprehensive about signing on for the subscription. I worry that if I cancel the subscription, I will essentially loose access to all the edits and such that I have made in lightroom. Cause I don't think I can export that catalog backwards, right?

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:31:44 GMT

Understood. You can certainly do great work with 6.14. It's just that the newer versions have some very good additional tools that really help with your editing.

It is true that you can't go backwards with catalogs, but the update doesn't alter your earlier catalog. You still have everything from 6.14.

You should go on the Adobe site and read the info about what happens if you cancel your subscription. You don't loose any work you've done. You just can't do any more editing.

It's really a personal decision.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

shadowsports — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:17:16 GMT

@miamib01,

I think you should look more deeply at shooting technique. You have a great lens, so maybe spend more time shooting multiple shots of the same image using different settings. I think that was mentioned previously.

The 6D2 is a very capable body. I'm always surprised at the detail and how well it does with skin smoothness.

Sigma 24~70mm (Art)

f 4.5

1/250

ISO 100

focal length 44mm

I use DxO for post. Its a great "perpetual" alternative to Lr. I've been taking pictures for a very long time. Enthusiast level. The guys here teach me new stuff every day.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 16:03:21 GMT

Maybe part of my issue is I had the auto ISO range set to 100~6400? I did that though so I could get a higher shutter speed in the lower light because I was hand holding some of the shots.

When doing portraits, is there an ideal ISO range for the 6D2?

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

Waddizzle — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 16:27:41 GMT

@mlamb01 wrote:
Maybe part of my issue is I had the auto ISO range set to 100~6400? I did that though so I could get a higher shutter speed in the lower light because I was hand holding some of the shots.
When doing portraits, is there an ideal ISO range for the 6D2?

Your question does not have an answer. It is up to you to decide what ISO settings are acceptable, and which are not. BTW, I use 100-12800 on my 6D2. In practice, I try to take shots that are ISO 3200 or less. Also, I only use ISO Auto in M mode.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 16:47:52 GMT

@mlamb01 wrote:
Maybe part of my issue is I had the auto ISO range set to 100~6400? I did that though so I could get a higher shutter speed in the lower light because I was hand holding some of the shots.
When doing portraits, is there an ideal ISO range for the 6D2?

I don't see objectionable noise in the image.

Since you are at max f/stop the only way to be able to use a lower ISO is a slower shutter speed and/or more light.

Since the 24-70 has IS you could maybe get by with 1/60 sec, but you are wise to be concerned about motion blur.

Rick's suggestion to look into DxO PhotoLab 4 is a good one.

DxO doesn't have a DAM system like Lr, but it does offer a plugin for Lr that would allow you to use Lr for cataloging and then transfer a RAW file to DxO for editing.

Each RAW processor creates slightly different rendered images. Some folks do not like Lr and feel that Capture 1 does a better job (and vice versa). Same with DxO and a half dozen or so other editing programs. And via editing one can ultimately produce images from any of them that will probably be indistinguishable from any other.

The only really accurate converter is Canon's DPP since they created the algorithms to process the sensor data from the sensor they designed. But that doesn't mean that DPP is necessarily the most pleasing output.

Concentrate on learning all the tools at your disposal in your version of Lr.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

ebiggs1 — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:10:26 GMT

"F4, 50mm, 1/125 ss, and 2500 ISO"

Wow! That looks like a pretty normal snapshot. Were you in deep shade or was it night? ISO 2500 seems out, way out, of reason for a shot like that in normal daylight even if you are out of direct Sun light. ISO 200 seems more appropriate. Whatever though.

A couple things;.............

"The only really accurate converter is Canon's DPP since they created the algorithms..." "Each RAW processor creates slightly different rendered images."

This may be true but it doesn't mean a thing if it isn't what you like or want. The conversion by Adobe in PS and LR is by far preferred by the professional photography community and world, over Canon's own DPP4 or any of the other editors. Not even close.

The latest version of PS and LR really don't do anything that your version can't do. They do automate some settings but largely they accomplish the same goal. This is only true, however, if you know how to use them properly. I have no real objection to doing the $10 per month rental scheme offered by Adobe and if I were still in business I would certainly do it. The improvement in procedure would be worth it as time is money in this business.

If I were you I would rethink the ISO issue. Always shoot full size Raw. I would set-up a preset in LR that applied lens correction and a tad bit of sharpening to the images as they are imported. This gives a good starting point to do your critical edits. If you or your clients need to view your photos at 1:1, you need to rethink how you shoot so that doesn't happen.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

mlamb01 — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:29:41 GMT

It was taken in open shade on a overcast day this past weekend, about 30 minutes before sunset. I did try processing this in DPP4, and it did show the face better IMO. But it lost alot of the detail in her hair. I decided I liked the LR render better, here is what I ended up with... Probably my favorite image from that session.

Re: New 6D2 owner coming from a t5i

wq9nsc — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:31:48 GMT

I generally use DPP for RAW conversion. Depending upon how you have DPP and your camera set up, it will use very aggressive noise reduction shedding far too much detail in the process.

I have DPP set for 0 luminance and 0 chrominance default NR and use DPP recipes to apply a starting value of NR to groups of photos based upon my experience and tastes with my different camera bodies at different ISO settings. From there I fine tune the level of NR and sharpening applied when needed.

Rodger