topic Color Shift adjustment for 90D in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 00:20:13 GMT

I am struggling with how color shift correction works. First I shoot a RAW image, then open in Adobe Camera RAW, As Shot. And no matter what I have the Color Temp set at in camera, it always shows a different value. AND the real problem is that the TINT is always up around +19 Magenta and needs to be around +22. I have tried adjustments in the "WB Shift" menu but I cannot figure out what is really happening. I can find no info online that explains how to test for and correct any bias my camera sensor has. Right now I am simply guessing by looking at many shots of various items.

If I set the WB to 5500K the Camera shows something like 6400K "as shot" Why does Camera RAW not show the actual camera settings "as shot"? I have no starting point to evaluate what the camera is doing.

I'm trying to calibrate the camera so I can accurately evaluate LED lighting I am using. Just like my monitor, calibration is essential to getting accurate color.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

Waddizzle — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 04:26:11 GMT

I suggest that you contact Adobe regarding your issues with image imports. Apparently, Adobe is not reading the EXIF data properly for one reason or another. Have you tried using the Adobe Color Space in the camera? Just a long shot.

Meanwhile, I suggest that you consider buying the X-Rite ColorChecker [**bleep**]. You can biuild a Color Profile for your specific cameras. Instead of selecting "Adobe Standard", the name of your camera will appear. If you calibarate your monitor, then you would want to calibrate the color reproduction coming off of your image sensor.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 14:07:11 GMT

Welcome to the forum.

Following is my understanding. Others should join in as well.

When you set a white balance setting in the camera all you are doing is adding a tag in the RAW file metadata. The actual RAW file data and histogram are unaffected by any WB you select. You are simply recording what you believe the color temperature of the light to be.

When you select As Shot in ACR you are telling the software to use the file data as-shot to compute the white balance of the image; it will do its best io render a neutral image.

See this discussion at https://fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction

[This link is okay, so we edited it to be clickable.]

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

Waddizzle — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 15:51:46 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

Following is my understanding. Others should join in as well.

When you set a white balance setting in the camera all you are doing is adding a tag in the RAW file metadata. The actual RAW file data and histogram are unaffected by any WB you select. You are simply recording what you believe the color temperature of the light to be.

When you select As Shot in ACR you are telling the software to use the file data as-shot to compute the white balance of the image; it will do its best io render a neutral image.

See this discussion at https://fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction

[This link is okay, so we edited it to be clickable.]

"If I set the WB to 5500K the Camera shows something like 6400K "as shot" Why does Camera RAW not show the actual camera settings "as shot"? I have no starting point to evaluate what the camera is doing.

John, I do not experience his problem. When I set 5200 in the camera, I get 5200 in Lightroom. Maybe there is a difference with ACR, or ACR needs to be updated.

I agree with you. When you select "As Shot" the file data is what should be used. Apparently, this is not what is happening.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 15:59:33 GMT

I will purchase the ColorChecker... thanks for your input.

I have not tried the Adobe Color space. Overall I am functioning OK with all this but I do feel there is an issue with calibration of the sensor which I need to understand. Not too worried about Blue/Yellow color temp slider, but the Magenta/Green slider is where I believe I have an issue. I think the camera may be a bit too Magenta. Not sure how to determine that. Opening in Camera RAW is not helpful because of the wild numbers it throws up. If I shoot a neutral white foam core board, and set exposure to around the middle on histogram, Camera RAW shows a magenta setting of +19 and the image is slightly magenta. Moving the slider to green removes the cast but slider still at around +15'

I just do not understand what the Color Info in Camera RAW is actually telling me about the image.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 16:12:28 GMT

Thanks!! I am looking over the info in the link you sent. Difficult to understand. I will read it again.

I guess my trouble stems from not understanding what the Camera RAW color info is actually telling me. How do I use this to gain some insight into how my sensor may or may not be off. No matter what settings I use for White Balance in the camera, the color sliders in Camera RAW don't seem to be making sense regarding that color balance.

Almost as if Camera RAW is using it's own computation for what the actual color balance was when shot. I assumed that if I put the Camera WB on 5500K camera RAW would show that exeact number when I select "as shot"

I am using an X-Rite i1 Display Pro monitor calibrator and colors is right on, so I need to calibrate the camera I guess... just hoping there is a procedure for getting close without spending a fortune.

Something like this: Shoot a known neutral card, open in camera RAW or Lightroom and boost the saturation until noticeable, adjust camera WB Shift Green/Magenta as needed. Repeat test.

Thanks for your help!

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

Waddizzle — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 16:34:28 GMT

Does this happen with other camera bodies, or is it specific to your 90D.

Adobe has to make a best estimate of how Canon processes their images.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 16:49:20 GMT

I had 2 40D's but sold them recently... currently also own an 80D and I think it does the same. Can't remember exactly but similar.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 17:55:15 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@jrhoffman75 wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

Following is my understanding. Others should join in as well.

When you set a white balance setting in the camera all you are doing is adding a tag in the RAW file metadata. The actual RAW file data and histogram are unaffected by any WB you select. You are simply recording what you believe the color temperature of the light to be.

When you select As Shot in ACR you are telling the software to use the file data as-shot to compute the white balance of the image; it will do its best io render a neutral image.

See this discussion at https://fastrawviewer.com/white-balance-as-per-channel-exposure-correction

[This link is okay, so we edited it to be clickable.]
"If I set the WB to 5500K the Camera shows something like 6400K "as shot" Why does Camera RAW not show the actual camera settings "as shot"? I have no starting point to evaluate what the camera is doing.

John, I do not experience his problem. When I set 5200 in the camera, I get 5200 in Lightroom. Maybe there is a difference with ACR, or ACR needs to be updated.

I agree with you. When you select "As Shot" the file data is what should be used. Apparently, this is not what is happening.

I think you are correct Waddizzle; I misunderstood what I read about the import action.

But therer does seem to be something possibly going on with the .CR3 files. There is some sort of battle going on between Adobe and Canon. There are no camera specific profiles for cameras with .CR3 files later than the 5D Mark IV and the R5.

here is a screenshot for a 1D X Mark I.

DPP shows that WB was set to Tungsten. 1D X manual says Tungsten is 3200K LrC says 3200 As-Shot.

Here is a screenshot for a file from the 1D X Mark III.

LrC reports a different value.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

ebiggs1 — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:23:10 GMT

You know just for kicks and grins, reset everything. Reset your camera to factory default. Make sure there are no presets in PS, ACR or LR. In PS reset preferences (do this in the Preferences Dialog Box). Do the same for LR (Alt+Shift as you start Lightroom in Windows some other keys in Mac).

In ACR, when you hold down Alt key you can click Reset. The Cancel key becomes a Reset key (in Windows some other keys in Mac).

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 19:04:55 GMT

OK, I just took a quick shot in my backyard. Av Mode, Auto Exposure, WB Shift set to O,O - Camera WB set at 5500, Neutral picture style w/contrast set -2 (because the camera always seems to have trouble with shadows being way too dark)

LrC shows "as shot" 5600K and Tint +17 - - The image is Dark and Extremely contrasty, shadows are up against the left edge and whites are close to right edge of Histogram and seem OK. Clicking on LrC Auto button definitely improves the image!!

Still I am not understanding why the AS SHOT info is not what I set the camera on and why am I always getting a high +magenta value?

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 20:57:28 GMT

I just took a few more shots in my backyard to try and get more info on this... Opening in LrC, camera set to 5500K shows "as shot" 5600K and +17 Tint. 5700K shows "as shot" 5800K and +17 Tint. AWB-W shows "as shot" 4750K is much too blue and shows +13 Tint. All shots are extremely contrasty and appear too dark overall, shadows right up against the left histogram edge. Whites are close but not blown out. Hitting the "Auto Exposure" button in LrC helps alot.

Seems like the in camera WB is pretty off, and still no idea why the Tint is so much towards Magenta.

I'm gonna fire up the 80D in a bit and repeat these same shots.

UPDATE: Canon 80D test shots

So I did the exact same 3 shots with same settings using the 80D and they were pretty right on in terms of the K settings and the Tint settings were more in line with what I would expect.

AWB-w reported 4950 with +3 Tint - - 5700K reported 5700K with +6 Tint - - 5500K reported 5550K with +6 Tint.

What could be happening here? 90D defective?

UPDATE : Phone call with Canon USA

Just got off the phone with Joel at Canon Tech Support, forst thing he says is, let's check the color temp in Digital Photo Professional. So we went thru it and sure enough, the 90D and the 80D are both reporting the correct "As Shot" Color Temps for all photos opened in DPP. So the problem is definitely with Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom. Apparently Adobe has not figured out how to correctly interpret raw data from the 90D. Not sure what to do next... the good news is that my 90D is not defective!

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

Waddizzle — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:51:04 GMT

If you still have the images, compare what Canon's DPP software says. Test it on the 90D files, too.

Re: Color Shift adjustment for 90D

PeterMars — Sun, 15 Nov 2020 04:06:10 GMT

Weird... I have replied 3 times to this with updates and none of them are currently showing? I have spoken with Adobe and Canon and had posted what I found out. Yes, I checked photos from both the 80D and 90D with DPP and they are fine. The 80D opened in Camera RAW and LrC both report the correct Color Temps as shot. ACR only having a problem with 90D

the Adobe tech support person said hopefully they will address this in the next ACR update... I wont hold my breath!

What happened to my earlier post replies?