topic Re: R5 C1~C3 bug in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

R5 C1~C3 bug

MonkeyCanon — Sat, 17 Oct 2020 20:52:42 GMT

I've noticed a wierd bug with the ISO when using C1~C3.

So this is my setup:
M-Fn set to: Switch to Custom Shooting mode
C1: 1/100 F11 ISO100 no brackets
C2: 1/100 F11 ISO100 2 brackets
C3: 1/100 F11 ISO100 3 brackets

I use ISO 100 as my base ISO for C1~C3, but if I go into any one of the C modes and change the ISO (as you would in the real world), it'll also change the ISO to some random value in the other modes. Often it switching from ISO 100 to some crazy value like 20000 or 51200.

Is this happening for anyone else's R5?

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

JimFeet — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 17:10:16 GMT

I have a somewhat different yet possibly related scenario...

NOTE: The following occurs ONLY IF the Auto Update Set. function is ENABLED for custom shooting modes.

Start in M (manual) mode. Set f10, ISO 200, 1/200 sec (arbitrary settings, most any suffice for this example). Set 5 frame exposure bracketing. Register these settings for C1. Switch from M mode to C1 and verify the settings. Turn off the camera and wait 5-10 seconds. Turn the camera back on. Since it was shut down in C1, it reboots in C1 but now the exposure bracketing is lost. But switch to M mode and the bracketing has been retained!

We're not done...

We're in Manual mode and bracketing appears to have been lost for C1 yet retained for Manual mode between shutdowns. Turn OFF the camera. Wait 5-10 seconds and turn the camera back on. Since it was shut down in M it reboots in Manual but now we've lost exposure bracketing in Manual AND in C1.

If we DISABLE the Auto Update Set. function, all pertinent values appear to be retained between shutdowns for both M and C1 modes.

The Auto Update Set. function appears to be the source of some confusion within the R5. I employ AEB for many photographic situations and having it available as a custom function is vital to my workflow.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 17:39:32 GMT

I am not sure whether or not the R5 registers exposure bracketing in custom shooting modes. I know that DSLRs do not register exposure bracketing. Canon has done a poor job with User Guides lately. Thie manual does not document which settings are able to be registered. The following is from an 80D User Guide.

This is not documented in either the R5 or 90D User Guides. Lens Group specifications are missing, too.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

MonkeyCanon — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 18:12:48 GMT

Waddizzle: The R5 can register bracketing settings into the C Modes. This is on my R5 with the latest firmware. Unfortunately the ISO goes nuts and affects the other C Modes if I change it. This is with or without the Auto Update Set. function enabled.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 18:50:33 GMT

@MonkeyCanon wrote:
Waddizzle: The R5 can register bracketing settings into the C Modes. This is on my R5 with the latest firmware. Unfortunately the ISO goes nuts and affects the other C Modes if I change it. This is with or without the Auto Update Set. function enabled.

You do not know that for a fact. It is pure conjecture on your part. Like I said, it is totally undocumented, and registering bracketing is inconsistent with camera bodies Canon has released in the past.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

MonkeyCanon — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:30:56 GMT

Waddlzzle: uhhhh, yeah I do, I have a R5 sitting in front of me and I can set C1 to no bracket, C2 to 2 bracket, C3 to 3 bracket and it remembers.

Out of curiosity, I grabbed my 5D4, and bracket settings can also be registered to any of the C modes. I'm not sure why you think DSLRs can't do that.

Also, Looking at the manual that you posted, it actually explicitly say that bracketting settings are registered. I'm not sure why you're jumping down my throat for it.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

JimFeet — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:17:32 GMT

"I know that DSLRs do not register exposure bracketing."

I beg to differ. I'm looking at a Canon EOS 5DSR as well as an EOS 1DX and a 1DXII right now. ALL of these cameras record and retain exposure bracket settings. I nearly always shoot the 5DSR with 7 exposures affording me the option to employ Aurora HDR if I choose to.

There are other settings that appear to be retained by the R5 custom modes (and which can sometimes be mildly annoying) but which I haven't chosen to investigate in detail - yet.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:11:34 GMT

@JimFeet wrote:
"I know that DSLRs do not register exposure bracketing."

I beg to differ. I'm looking at a Canon EOS 5DSR as well as an EOS 1DX and a 1DXII right now. ALL of these cameras record and retain exposure bracket settings. I nearly always shoot the 5DSR with 7 exposures affording me the option to employ Aurora HDR if I choose to.

There are other settings that appear to be retained by the R5 custom modes (and which can sometimes be miltly annoying) but which I haven't chosen to investigate in detail - yet.

No, they don't. You're making a false assumption. Show it to me in the User Guide. Below is from the 1Dx Mark II. It appears to be the only series of Canon DSLRs that saves "AEB Increment", which I assume to be bracketing.

The settings saved by the 5DSR are simillar to the 80D. This means the 5DSR does not save Exposure Bracketing, either, as per page 438 in my manual.

The 1D bodies do not have custom shooting modes. You save and load camera settings to and from the memory card,

The topic is the R5, not the 1D Series. The OP claims the camera registers the settings, but is complaining about how it does not seem to work as expected. It is working as it should. I do not know what the issue is with ISO, though. No of it is documented by Canon.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

JimFeet — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:19:56 GMT

I don't need to show you in the user guide. I see it in all of my cameras. You can argue about what's written. I'll simply reply with what IS. I've used this feature for years. Arguing that it doesn't exist is futile when I have hands on experience for many years with this equipment. The fact something isn't explicitly documented doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:22:19 GMT

@JimFeet wrote:
I don't need to show you in the user guide. I see it in all of my cameras. You can argue about what's written. I'll simply reply with what IS. I've used this feature for years. Arguing that it doesn't exist is futile when I have hands on experience for many years with this equipment. The fact something isn't explicitly documented doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Okay. Have it your way. It doesn't save exposure bracketing properly. It does not work. Contact Canon Support.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

MonkeyCanon — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:27:38 GMT

I wish Waddizzle would stop. He's throwing out wrong information left and right and misinterpreting what I (the OP) said. As a result, he's taking this whole thread off-topic.

To get back on topic: I'm hoping to see if other R5 owners are having the same bug as me. Despite what Waddizzle is arguing, you CAN save bracketing settings in C Modes and they do save correctly. You can reboot the camera, switch modes etc, and C Mode retains the correct setting and proper bracketing information.

The bug happens when you change the ISO. When I change the ISO in M or C mode, it'll randomly change the ISO in other modes. I'm curious to see if other R5 owners are experiencing the same issue before spending the time to call Canon.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

JimFeet — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:36:58 GMT

Well, for not working, it has worked in all of my cameras from the day they were purchased (new) through every firmware version. I occasionally revise number of frames in my AEB settings to suit changing needs and register with selected custom settings.

FWIW, I've discussed this feature in the past with Canon reps years ago at Live Learning events (Festival of the Cranes, Bosque del Apache NWR) - it's how I first learned about it.

For not working, I'm happy. It works.

Still, the reall issue is the feature in the R5 is adversely affected by the Auto Update Set. function.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 22:01:14 GMT

@MonkeyCanon wrote:
I wish Waddizzle would stop. He's throwing out wrong information left and right and misinterpreting what I (the OP) said. As a result, he's taking this whole thread off-topic.

To get back on topic: I'm hoping to see if other R5 owners are having the same bug as me. Despite what Waddizzle is arguing, you CAN save bracketing settings in C Modes and they do save correctly. You can reboot the camera, switch modes etc, and C Mode retains the correct setting and proper bracketing information.

The bug happens when you change the ISO. When I change the ISO in M or C mode, it'll randomly change the ISO in other modes. I'm curious to see if other R5 owners are experiencing the same issue before spending the time to call Canon.

"We're in Manual mode and bracketing appears to have been lost for C1 yet retained for Manual mode between shutdowns."

I did not take your thread off topic, the above comment did. Sounds like it doesn't work in C1 mode. Doesn't it?

Like I said earlier, contact Canon Support about your issue. None of it is well documented in he User Guides.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

garymak1 — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 21:21:30 GMT

I've read all the messages and I wanted to add something I didn't see re: "C1-C3 bug" which is what I originally found: It is NOT "C1 - C3". It is "C1M", "C2M" and "C3P".

And Canon has not documented anywhere in any of the manuals, what this means. In fact, in their manuals, they alternatively refer to the Custom functions as "C1", "C2", :"C3" and "C1p - C3p" (ref. pg 786, for example). But, on the R5 itself, the Custom functions are listed as "C1M", "C2M" and "C3P". So we have at least 3 different names for these functions from Canon - without any explanation at all.

Logically then,
1) Since they are listed specifically differently on the camera, we have to assume that these custom functions have different capabilities;
2) Since Canon offers no explanation, we can't know what the differences are;
3) It is reasonable to assume then, given photography nomenclature, that "M" and "P" must stand for "manual" and "program."
4) Given the above, it is also reasonable to assume that Custom functions 1 and 2 (however they are labeled) must different from Custom Function 3.

If we assume that Custom function 3 is related to some kind of "program," then that might explain why people have commented that "the ISO goes crazy sometimes." I had that same problem. I was shooting in Custom 3 mode at ISO 100, and suddenly noticed that it was jumping to "AUTO ISO." I'd set it back, take a picture, and it would jump back to "Auto ISO" again. Obviously, in a "program setting" one of the major settings adjusts automatically, and ISO seems to be the one that is adjusting automatically.

I'm concluding that the C3 button is now worthless. It would be nice if Canon would explain that someplace, that there really are only 2 Custom function settings on the R5 since by definition, "custom" means what I want the settings to be, not what the camera tells me it's going to do despite my settings.

I'm also concluding that this is NOT a "bug," because the custom function "C3" specifically says "P" (not "M" as C1 and C2 do) on the camera. It's just that Canon overlooked giving any information on this, and they themselves set about describing these functions randomly and inconsistently as "C1-C3," "C1p - C3p" in the instructions and then "C1M", "C2M" and "C3P" on the camera...

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

jrhoffman75 — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 00:23:01 GMT

Welcome to the forum.

The custom shooting modes are called C1, C2 and C3.

Once settings are registered to the settings the display on the camera will be C1x, C2x and C3x, where x is the primary mode, like P, M, Tv or Av.

Apparently the R5 pre-populates the modes.

If you look at pages 790-791 you can see there is an optionenable/disable auto update.

If thatoption is enabled then any changes you make while in C1, C2 or C3 are saved when the camera is powered down.

If set to disable then the changes only last until the camera powers down.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

Waddizzle — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:13:26 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

The custom shooting modes are called C1, C2 and C3.

Once settings are registered to the settings the display on the camera will be C1x, C2x and C3x, where x is the primary mode, like P, M, Tv or Av.

Apparently the R5 pre-populates the modes.

If you look at pages 790-791 you can see there is an option enabvle/disable auto update.

If that optiuon is enabled then any changes you make while in C1, C2 or C3 are saved when the camera is powered down.

If set to disable then the changes only last until the cmaera powers down.

I actually prefer this behavior when using the Custom Shooting modes. If I want the setting changes then to be retained, then i would shoot in one of the standard Creative Shooting modes.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:18:56 GMT

"I actually prefer this behavior when using the Custom Shooting modes. If I want the setting changes then to be retained, then i would shoot in one of the standard Creative Shooting modes."

That's not really the same. One may have a special Custom Mode configured, lets say with Auto ISO for example. On a particular day he may have a reason to shoot with a fixed ISO. If the camera is set to disable the setting could be changed that day but revert to the desired mode when the camera shuts down.

Re: R5 C1~C3 bug

garymak1 — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 00:19:06 GMT

Thanks! In the process, I found the D5 MKIII discussion on the very same problem (https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D-MK-IV-registering-custom-shooting-modes/m-p/340384/emcs_t/S2h8ZW1haWx8dG9waWNfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ufEtOTlIwMVpLUEdWMUIxfDM0MDM4NHxTVUJTQ1JJUFRJT05TfGhL#M50431) and found the explanation. Since I never use "P" mode, it would not have occurred to me that that's where it came from and how it happened, which must have been an inadvertent flip of the dial while lowering down. Anyway, thanks!