topic Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

ianlawrence — Wed, 24 Jul 2013 21:35:11 GMT

Im a beginner and my problem is that my new t5i is not working anymore in manual or auto int mode . I test it in the dark room, in auto mode, the flash is firing but the image is dark. Any suggestions?

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Mykolas — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 10:40:23 GMT

Hi ianlawrence!

Thank you for posting!

Do you have a sample image you can upload that we can take a look at? This will greatly help us to determine why the images are so dark. I know that the AUTO mode is not always the best mode for every shooting condition, so it could be normal that the images are not properly exposed. What settings did you use in the Manual mode that gave you a dark image?

If this is a time sensitive-matter, additional support options are available at Contact Us.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

TCampbell — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 15:03:24 GMT

The built-in popup flash on the camera is NOT good for subjects at distance. It is generally adequate for any subject within roughly 10'. If you're shooting in a large room and your subject is far away, it's going to look like the flash didn't work even if it did work -- because the distance is too great.

You can add an external speedlite which is considerably more powerful.

If your subject is close but you're still getting dark images then it is possible to put the flash into a mode where YOU see the flash fire even though it's technically "disabled". The flash can be used to optically trigger remote flashes. To do this, the camera communicates with the remote flash optically. The on-camera flash technically fires a 'pre-flash' before the shutter is open. This tells the remote flash what to do. The remote flash will then fire when the shutter is open, but the on-camera flash will not fire. This happens extremely fast -- you'd swear both flashes fired at the same time (even though technically they do not.)

I'm wondering if you have mistakening put the camera into that mode. I do not have a T5i so I can't tell you where the setting is located in your camera. The menu is usually labeled "Flash control" or "External speedlite control" depending on the model.

Usually full automatic mode (the green [A] on the dial) over-rides nearly all settings. The flash should work correctly in that mode even if it does not work in any other mode.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Bethy — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 04:36:43 GMT

I am experiencing the very same issues, although it happens sporadically. In all automodes, as well as manual. Doesn't matter which lens I use, nor how close or distant I am from what I am trying to photograph. This just started happening.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Bethy — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 04:39:16 GMT

I doubt very seriously that this person was mistaken about which mode they were using. Because I am now having the exact same problem all of a sudden. Although it is sporadically, some photos actually come out, others are just completely black. Doesn't matter if I am in the standard automode, the creative automode, or even manual; it is still happening. And I would like to know what is causing it. As much money as this camera costs, it should work correctly. I haven't done anything differently, so I am not sure why it isn't working properly now, I have had it for a year.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

TCampbell — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 15:18:06 GMT

Assuming that your flash is in E-TTL mode (because it could be in manual mode -- in which case none of what I'm about to write would apply.)...

Make sure you have not dialed in flash-exposure compensation. In full "auto" mode you wont be able to do that (full auto mode limits the things you can change) but in creative modes (P, Av, Tv, or M) you can change it.

Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC) allows you to tell the camera to fire the flash at either a lower or higher power than the computer calculates should be correct for the exposure. 1 "stop" a halving or doubling of the amount of power (obviously there is an upper limit to what the flash can provide so asking it to increase the FEC will be capped at either 3 stops or whenever the flash hits that upper power limit.) 3 stops of underexposure is half of half of half or 1/8th power. That would cause a heavily underexposed image if the flash is being used as a "key" light. I use FEC very commonly when shooting outdoors in the sun to use the falsh as a "fill" light. I still want the sun to be the primary light source, but I want to use the flash to reduce the darkness of deep shadows. When shooting outside in full sun, I typically set the FEC on my flash to -1 (which causes it to fire at half of the power that the computer would have otherwise used.)

ALSO... it's important to understand how E-TTL flash works...

1) The camera "meters" the shot in evaluative mode and checks the lighting for each zone.

2) The camera fires the pre-flash... at a very low power level (I think it's 1/32nd power by default) WHILE simultaneously re-metering the shot.

3) The computer then compares each zone from 1 to the same zone in 2 to compare the difference in the "without" vs "with" light from the flash to see how much of an impact the flash had. This helps it calculate how much power should be used for the shot. Also... it's trained to watch for areas which fail to show much of a difference as well as areas which show too much of a difference. E.g. if you were shooting a photograph of a subject who had a mirror in the background as well as a lamp next to them, then the lamp would appear to be about the same brightness in both metering tests (because it emits its own light) and the mirror would show a HUGE difference in both metering tests (because it is highly reflective. The camera realizes they are both anomalies and is programmed not to be fooled by them. It uses the zones that show a more typical difference. Lastly... IF the flash is (a) on the camera and (b) pointed straight ahead (because a speedlite flash could be located off-camera or it could have it's head tilted away from the subject then the camera also uses the lens' focusing distance to subject to calculate flash power as well (both a and b must be true or the camera will not factor focus distance into the caluclation for flash power.)

4) If FEC was set to any value other than 0, the computer will increase or reduce the amount of power the flash is using. Additionally if you have mutiple flashes and set flash ratios, etc. these will also be factored in.

5) Finally... the camera shutter opens and the flash fires at the pre-calculated power level.

All of these steps happen so quickly unless you were really watching closely you'd swear the flash tube only fired once.

The take-aways from this are:

1) The FEC setting can cause the issue you are describing (it is the most likely reason for a functioning camera and flash to do this -- and would not be an indication of a problem or defecct.)

2) E-TTL isn't a human brain. It doesn't actually "know" what exposure to use. It's firing some test flash and measuring reflections. Due to the variable nature of subjects and reflections it is posible to trick the camera & flash.

3) You can always switch the flash to manual mode. In manual mode it will fire only at the power level that you set and it will not perform any calculations or fire a pre-flash.

If you are using the built-in pop-up flash, make sure you are not holding the camera in such a way that your hand or clothing are blocking the light from the flash... or that the camera strap is hanging in such a way that it's blocking the flash.

The intensity of all light sources drops off following a law of physics called the inverse-square law. Each time the distance increasses by about 40% (1.41 -- technically the square root of 2 but you can just round that to 1.4 and be close enough) the amount of light from the flash will be halved (or each time the distace is doubled it will be 1/4 of the light vs the previous distance.) The built-in pop-up flash is not particularly powerful (not anywhere near the power of an external speedlite such as the 430EX II or the 600EX-RT.) The pop-up flash can provide enough light for subjects that are relatively close (at ISO 100 it's good for about 10 feet... maybe slightly more.)

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

RobertTheFat — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:18:29 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
Assuming that your flash is in E-TTL mode (because it could be in manual mode -- in which case none of what I'm about to write would apply.)...

[etc., etc.]

Tim's very detailed explanation is excellent, as usual. I'd just add one oversimplified, but useful, takeaway: E-TTL is pathalogically averse to blown highlights. If you're not careful, it's easy to create a situation in which only the very brightest object in the picture is properly exposed. Usually, the most effective workaround is to expose for the background and treat the flash as fill. There are times when even that trick is ineffective and you may have to switch to manual flash. But it works more often than you might think.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

DempseyGT — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:04:15 GMT

I'm having the same problem. Flash either doesn'f fire when the shutter snaps, or fires before the shutter snaps, resulting in dark, underlit images even when I use the CA mode to force the flash. Sporadically an image will come out OK, butthey are mostly dark. Did you ever solve the problem?

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Bethy — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:21:07 GMT

No, I never solved the problem. It is extremely frustrating. And all of the comments made prior to your post, after my initial comments, do not apply to the problem I am having. Because I haven't changed anything. Considering that changes can't be made at all when using the auto mode, obviously that isn't the problem. And I am not blocking the built-in flash with my hand, clothing, camera strap, or anything else for that matter. Like you, Dempsey, sporadically an image will come out all right. But most come out completely black. Sometimes I get a picture that is almost blacked out, but I can still sort of make out the image. Only for the next shot to come out just fine. So without changing any setting, without changing position, without changing my subject, I will get a few completely black frames, followed by an almost black photo, and then a perfectly captured picture all taken in rapid succession. And each time the built-in flash pops up and seems to fire, and yet I have a ton of black squares.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

RobertTheFat — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 14:51:52 GMT

@Bethy wrote:
No, I never solved the problem. It is extremely frustrating. And all of the comments made prior to your post, after my initial comments, do not apply to the problem I am having. Because I haven't changed anything. Considering that changes can't be made at all when using the auto mode, obviously that isn't the problem. And I am not blocking the built-in flash with my hand, clothing, camera strap, or anything else for that matter. Like you, Dempsey, sporadically an image will come out all right. But most come out completely black. Sometimes I get a picture that is almost blacked out, but I can still sort of make out the image. Only for the next shot to come out just fine. So without changing any setting, without changing position, without changing my subject, I will get a few completely black frames, followed by an almost black photo, and then a perfectly captured picture all taken in rapid succession. And each time the built-in flash pops up and seems to fire, and yet I have a ton of black squares.

We've told you what the problem probably is, but you don't believe us. And since you haven't shown us any pictures or described your shooting conditions in any but the most general terms, you may be right for all we know. But if you are, then there's probably something wrong with your camera. If that's what you were waiting to hear, then I'm happy to oblige. But I think your frustration will continue until you either provide us with more information to go on or take/send the camera in for repair.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

TCampbell — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 17:06:45 GMT

@Bethy wrote:
So without changing any setting, without changing position, without changing my subject, I will get a few completely black frames, followed by an almost black photo, and then a perfectly captured picture all taken in rapid succession. And each time the built-in flash pops up and seems to fire, and yet I have a ton of black squares.

What do you mean by "in rapid succession".

The battery does not power the flash (which sounds strange, but it's true). Capacitors power the flash. The problem with "batteries" is that there's a maximum rate that energy can flow out and the flash needs a burst of power faster than a battery can deliver that power. So INSTEAD the batteries pre-charge some capacitors. Capacitors can release their power very quickly.

This means it takes some period of time to pre-charge the capacitors, then you take the shot and some amount of power is rapidly drained from those capacitors. The batteries then re-charge the capacitors to get ready for the next shot.

The amount of power needed by the flash depends on power settings and metering. But if the camera needs a full power flash (or something even close to a full-power flash) then it takes longer for the flash to re-cycle the capacitors to get ready for the next shot.

In other words... using that built-in pop-up flash is NOT a rapid-fire capable flash for most situations.

Even the major flagship flashes such as the 600EX-RT may not be able to keep up depending on the situation. There are contraptions that allow you to attach multiple flashes (3 or 6) on one mount and they all fire in unison. Since they have a crazy amount of combined power, each flash only drains a very tiny amount of it's reserve per pulse and the flash can blink away at a crazy rate to capture action shots.

Here's an example:

If we had enough information then we could probably figure out if there's something you can do to control the reliability of the flash or if there's actually a potential issue with your flash. But without sample photos and more detailed information, there's not enough information for us to narrow in on the issue.

We'd need to know how far away you are from your subjects, what mode you are using (A, P, Tv, Av, or M), if you're using E-TTL or manual flash, whether you are doing continuous burst or just single frames, whether you are waiting a second or two between shots, etc.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

DempseyGT — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 17:50:17 GMT

Here are two examples I just took. The first in was in Automatic mode in my lit den. The second (darker one) was taken afterward in the same room and conditions in CA mode with forced flash setting. In both cases the flash flickered before the shutter snapped and didn't actually flash during the shutter snap. I know the flash bulb is OK since it often does a couple of quick bursts before the shutter snap, but it rarely gives an actual burst during the shutter snap. What's going on? I've had sevearl Canon DSLRs before this one and have never had any issues.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

alibilski — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 04:55:58 GMT

YES! Finally someone who is having the exact same issues as I am!

It is as if my flash is "stuck" at times. It is so very frustrating to have this happen.

I would say that about 80% of my photos look like the ones you have posted. Also, I can be in a sunlight filled room/studio and STILL have this happen to my photos.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Omgitzrockyyo1 — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 01:55:19 GMT

About time... I've been having this issue since last year went to a few best buys where I purchased from no one had answers. I paid over a grand for this camera when it first came out... Sad to say all my Pictures are coming out dark as well. I was so frustrated I put the camera away and never touched it since... I tried every option there was on my camera and still nothing... Even in auto mode it takes out pictures dark I feel as if the flash doesn't coordinate properly with the shutter... Not sure why...

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Omgitzrockyyo1 — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 01:55:29 GMT

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Wattsme — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:26:31 GMT

This is the only forum I have found so far that touches upon this problem - exactly the same problem I am having with my T5i 18-135 pop up flash - it just seems to be out of synch with the shutter. Daytime shooting is gretat, but all the pop-up flash photos follow the same pattern of the first one being dimly lit and the next ones completely dark. Hopefully someone will be able to post a solution soon.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Waddizzle — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:05:09 GMT

I think that TCampbell gave a pretty good explanation of what could possibly be happening. I just looked at the specification for a Canon 430EX II flash unit. It's specified recycling time is rated between 0.1 and 3.7 seconds with Alkaline batteries, and is rated between 0.1 and 2.0 seconds with Ni-MH batteries. I have not found a specification for the T5i, but I would expect the range of recovery times to be comparable, if not even longer. Your camera battery has to run a camera in addition to the flash unit. Also, be aware that the 18-135mm lens is long enough to cast a distinct shadow when the built-in flash fires, although the posted images do not look like there is a problem with lens shadows.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

DempseyGT — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:42:48 GMT

My camera is olnly 5 months old and the battary is the standed battary included from Canon. The sample photos I took above were not "taken in rapid succession" and the battary was fully charged. The flash simply dose not sync with the shutter on any settining, including the CA setting to force the flash. I'm convinced the camera is a lemon. I had a T3i before, and a T2i before that, and never had this problem. It looks like there's a defect with this camera, and I'm not the only customer with this phoblem. Very dissapointed with this purchase.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Wattsme — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:06:59 GMT

Predominantly I have simply been shooting with the mode dial set to Intelligent Automatic or Creative Auto so I have really not been experimenting with manual settings. I have not adjusted the flash at all. I am satsified it is not an issue with shadow from the long lens - the pictures are simply very dark to black.

Re: Rebel t5i 18-55mm pop up flash issue

Waddizzle — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:37:43 GMT

There is another possibility, though remote. I think someone mentioned that the flash seems to work just fine outdoors when it is used to fill in dark areas. But, that it only seems to fail when used indoors.

Take note of the shutter speeds on the different resulting images, most especially at the two extremes ... when they come out properly and when they don't. The high end Canon cameras have smarts built into them to compensate for line frequency flicker of some types of indoor lighting, which can fool your light meter and interfere getting a proper exposure when you use a flash.

Please, in addition to the camera settings of the exposure triangle, post all of the details about your flash settings in your menus, too, when these problems arise.