topic Re: Canon 5D mark i banding in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Canon 5D mark i banding

sotos97 — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 21:35:37 GMT

I have been doing some test shots today with my favorite 5D - The faulty 5D mark i.

I bought this in June and have taken around 6000 shots. In some of the shots I have seen the notorious banding issue. Tried some indoor shots today and it was very apparent, also in cases where I didn't pull shadows. I used the 50mm 1.4 but have seen it happen with the 85mm 1.8 as well. Is there any way to fix this or prevent it from happening? I am not a hopeless romantic, I have a 5D4 but I will not give up my 5D mark i, it renders beautiful images.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

Waddizzle — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 00:02:58 GMT

Post a sample shot or two. If you are shooting indoors, you could be seeing the effects of solid state lighting flicker.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

Peter — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 01:49:38 GMT

And post raw files.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:38:15 GMT

Jacking up the sliders in post will make it worse. Remember less is more most of the time.

Posterization, sometimes called banding, can be explained by too little information spread too far apart. Have you done all the latest upgrades to LR and PS? One thing you must not do if this posterization shows up is hike up the 'clarity' slider. This makes it worse. Increasing the 'grain' will reduce posterization.

You can also try to increase the color space to AdobeRGB. Some say that doesn't help but it does. Some shots benefit from it some shots don't. The color space in what you see is increased even though the color space outside the ability of your monitor is wasted.

Look at your histogram. It will indicate posterization especially in a processed jpg. The histogram is an invaluable tool.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

sotos97 — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:46:22 GMT

That is actually really interesting. How do I find out if I have posterization?

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:19:01 GMT

"Look at your histogram. It will indicate posterization especially in a processed jpg. The histogram is an invaluable tool."

The histogram should look rather smooth. If it has a lot of deep jagged or missing areas, it can be a sign of posterization.

If I remember correctly the 5D (there is no 5D Mk 1) has a color space for AdobeRGB. Try that. Avoid under exposing especially in shadows. Always shoot large Raw format. When you post edit don't go crazy with the sliders. Especially clarity. Sometimes banding or posterization is added in or made much worse in post. Once you are in post editing avoid changing the color space.

If you have not yet, get the free from Canon DPP4 for your 5D. It will give excellent, perhaps the best, results from your 5D.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

RobertTheFat — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 17:52:45 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Look at your histogram. It will indicate posterization especially in a processed jpg. The histogram is an invaluable tool."

The histogram should look rather smooth. If it has a lot of deep jagged or missing areas, it can be a sign of posterization.
If I remember correctly the 5D (there is no 5D Mk 1) has a color space for AdobeRGB. Try that. Avoid under exposing especially in shadows. Always shoot large Raw format. When you post edit don't go crazy with the sliders. Especially clarity. Sometimes banding or posterization is added in or made much worse in post. Once you are in post editing avoid changing the color space.
If you have not yet, get the free from Canon DPP4 for your 5D. It will give excellent, perhaps the best, results from your 5D.

Ernie, I'm a linguistics buff, so your fastidious adherence to accuracy of expression is sort of heartening. But can't we adopt the convention, which is already the common default in this forum, that any camera model that is first in a series is automatically a Mk I? Of course it wasn't called a Mk I originally, but calling it a Mk I now ensures that the reader won't think you're referring to the whole series.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:53:33 GMT

Robert I have and I see no reason to change the name. It is printed clearly on the front of the camera. 5D Mk 1 is not there.

However if you feel confused when folks speak of the 5D, than by all means go for it.

I suppose it is like the difference of Raw and RAW. Raw is correct because it is a word. It is not an acronym but you still see folks use RAW to define it. Doesn't hurt either way I suspect.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

FloridaDrafter — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 01:24:49 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
I suppose it is like the difference of Raw and RAW. Raw is correct because it is a word. It is not an acronym but you still see folks use RAW to define it. Doesn't hurt either way I suspect.

LOL, you are correct of course. I never gave it any thought because every bit of literature I have that is published by Canon, capps it out RAW. I'm just following Canon protocol Yah, that's the ticket, following protocol.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:54:40 GMT

Let me know if anything helped. As I recall on my 5D, it was susceptible to some banding. Kick that color space up to Adobe RGB and try it. Make sure your editor is also set to Adobe RGB or it will switch it back and that will make banding even worse.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

sotos97 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 15:08:33 GMT

Hey,

I have not tried the Adobe RGB space yet. I took a closer look to all of my images from day one and saw the same pattern in the noise, there is definitely a striping issue. I plan on buying another one soon where I am definitely only gonna get a later serial number (mine is 24) and in pristine condition. I have been experimenting and saw that by reducing sharpening and setting the color profile to neutral or standard, the banding issue is eliminated in the noise. Also, it seems to sort it self out if shooting jpeg - something that I often do with the 5D due to its unique color rendering.

Finally I think I am able to let that pass and still enjoy using the 5D. Afterall it is an imperfect camera. Film also had banding issues but no one says anything cause film isn't supposed to be perfect as with digital. I will just compromise. I use my 5D4 for serious stuff more anyway.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 15:32:10 GMT

"...it seems to sort it self out if shooting jpeg..."

IMHO, you should never shoot jpg. The sole exception is if you are doing high speed continuous shoots. The very best you can do is Raw. At the very worse you can set the very same parameters as the 5D renders your jpgs. When you soot in jpg a great deal of the information the sensor got is simply thrown away. Discarded forever. The camera decides what is needed and what is not. If you are trying to recover some detail in the shadows of a pictuer would you rather have all the data to work with or just 50% of it? That is jpg!

D/L the free Canon DPP4. It along with Raw is your best go and will most likely eliminate most if not all the banding

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

sotos97 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 15:51:50 GMT

I shoot a lot of raw and some jpegs. Sometimes I shoot raw plus jpeg L with the 5D and find myself doing minor tweeks in the curves of the jpeg (especially monochrome) with the 5D. It has a very unique rendering, similar to what fuji people say about fuji jpegs. Sometimes all you need is a jpeg imo. But shooting raw along with it never hurts 😊

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

RobertTheFat — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:41:40 GMT

@sotos97 wrote:
I shoot a lot of raw and some jpegs. Sometimes I shoot raw plus jpeg L with the 5D and find myself doing minor tweeks in the curves of the jpeg (especially monochrome) with the 5D. It has a very unique rendering, similar to what fuji people say about fuji jpegs. Sometimes all you need is a jpeg imo. But shooting raw along with it never hurts 😊

IMO, the only excuse for shooting JPEG is to meet a newspaper deadline. But newspaper reproduction is usually so bad that it doesn't matter whether you started with a RAW file or not.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

sotos97 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:53:56 GMT

Yeah I thought so too, but after trying I realised no one gives a **bleep**. If the photograph is good, it's good. Of course I wouldn't book a job and shoot on jpegs. I would be a hypocrite telling the opposite. Especially with the 5D. But for personal projects I find jpegs can do wonders.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

Howardl — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 22:58:37 GMT

Ernie-

you should have written: "then by all means go for it"

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 00:45:31 GMT

"IMO, the only excuse for shooting JPEG is to meet a newspaper deadline."

Even that is a poor excuse unless it has to go directly from camera to print. There is no good reason to not shoot Raw. I will except high speed continuous shooting where the buffer can fill up rapidly. Even that is not problem for the latest crop of Canon DSLRs.

99% of the time all your shots all go to a computer. DPP4 and LR and PS and others are seamless in their conversion and render a camera settings image. All without input from the user.

" I thought so too, but after trying I realised no one gives a **bleep**."

They do if you are selling your work and expect to make a living. Or, it is your job and it depends on your work.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

ebiggs1 — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 00:52:26 GMT

"Ernie-

you should have written: "then by all means go for it"

You are correct, sir. And, I had an English professor (shhhhh) at Alabama State University for a parent. I hope she doesn't read my rather colloquial usage and destruction of the English language.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

sotos97 — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 01:42:51 GMT

I don't know why you are so negative towards jpeg photography. A lot of people dial in their custom profiles on Canon and Fuji and shoot jpegs with great success and sell their prints as well. Canon put a lot of work into jpeg rendering in camera and that's why the features exist to use them. I shoot jpegs happily and raw as well and many times I will go for the raw file but others I will slightly touch the jpeg.

Re: Canon 5D mark i banding

RobertTheFat — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 04:22:01 GMT

@Howardl wrote:
Ernie-
you should have written: "then by all means go for it"

Yeah, sure. But I think you're mistaking a typo for a grammatical error.