topic Re: EOS R5/R6 launch in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS R5/R6 launch

John_SD — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 14:42:03 GMT

Looking forward Canon's offical online product launch tomorrow. Photos have leaked, and it seems that the EOS R5 and R6 will both have joysticks. I am encouraged that Canon has abandoned the awful and universally panned touchbar. The R5 tech seems more geared to videographers, but that is not surprising given that so many now buy cameras to use as camcorders. Why, I don't know, but that is the trend. The R6 seems more appealing to me as someone who is more interested in photography rather than creating YouTube videos. I think there is still time to sign up for the online launch.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

shadowsports — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 14:53:37 GMT

John,

Lets see if it lives up to the hype.

R6 is not an option for me at 20.1MP

R5 maybe... lets see if it hits that $3900 pricepoint as anticipated.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

John_SD — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:19:03 GMT

@shadowsports wrote:
John,
Lets see if it lives up to the hype.

R6 is not an option for me at 20.1MP

R5 maybe... lets see if it hits that $3900 pricepoint as anticipated.

Rick, I believe the R6 sensor is the same one the 1DX III uses. Those guys don't seem to complain about it. However, I too might have preferred something along the lines of 24 MP, but given the other fantastic specs of the camera, and the fact that I'm not printing out 36" by 24" posters from my RAWs, the 20.1 MP is not a deal breaker for me. This is the camera I've been waiting for.

As for the R5, the body lists at $3899.

EDIT: I should say that the 20.1 MP R6 sensor is basically the same as the one in the 1DX III. The R6 forgoes the low pass filter.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

wq9nsc — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 16:12:13 GMT

NOT the same sensor as the 1DX III and more importantly it doesn't have the special 1DX III lowpass filter which works in conjunction with the sensor that is a key part of the increased image quality over the same MP size sensor used in the 1DX II.

I am sure that the R6 image quality will be exceptional but it doesn't need the full performance of the 1DX III and more importantly the cost that goes with providing a sensor that can be expanded to ISO 819,200 and does an excellent job of capturing images in a poorly lit venue at high shutter speed.

Rodger

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

Waddizzle — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 16:43:23 GMT

The sensor in the R6 cannot be the same as the 1Dx Mark III. While the resolution may be similar, the sensor in the R6 has IBIS, which the 1Dx Mark III does not have.

The R6 has a native ISO 102,000, which is 2 stops better than the 6D Mark II, and the RP. The R6 and R5 seem to have the ISO range to handle the 600mm and 800mm f/11 primes.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

John_SD — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:10:09 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
The sensor in the R6 cannot be the same as the 1Dx Mark III. While the resolution may be similar, the sensor in the R6 has IBIS, which the 1Dx Mark III does not have.

The R6 has a native ISO 102,000, which is 2 stops better than the 6D Mark II, and the RP. The R6 and R5 seem to have the ISO range to handle the 600mm and 800mm f/11 primes.

Canon has used the terminology of declaring the sensors in the 1DX III and the R6 as "similar." And indeed they are.

Yes, the native ISO is as you say, but it can be expanded on either side to ISO 50 and 204,800. Given all the other superlatives of the cameras, they look like great rigs to me. I'll be interested in hearing from the guys who say they routinely require ISOs in the many hundreds of thousands LOL.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

RobertTheFat — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:54:00 GMT

Pretty much as expected, I guess, though I think I've missed the boat. Given my age (82++) and retired status, I can't see myself buying one (R5), especially since I already have a 5D3, a 5D4, and most of the usual "L" lenses. But for you younger guys and girls, it looks like a major turning point - comparable to film SLRs crowding rangefinder cameras out of the way. I look forward to the opinions of the usual suspects.

One concern about mirrorless, of course, is battery life. I see that the announcement appears to include a new version of the LPE6N; We'll definitely be interested to hear how it performs.

My initial impression is that the R6 doesn't make the cut. Am I reading it right that they omitted the second adjustment wheel and the top LCD screen? A paean to the Rebel line, perhaps?

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

Waddizzle — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 18:32:51 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
Pretty much as expected, I guess, though I think I've missed the boat. Given my age (82++) and retired status, I can't see myself buying one (R5), especially since I already have a 5D3, a 5D4, and most of the usual "L" lenses. But for you younger guys and girls, it looks like a major turning point - comparable to film SLRs crowding rangefinder cameras out of the way. I look forward to the opinions of the usual suspects.

One concern about mirrorless, of course, is battery life. I see that the announcement appears to include a new version of the LPE6N; We'll definitely be interested to hear how it performs.

My initial impression is that the R6 doesn't make the cut. Am I reading it right that they omitted the second adjustment wheel and the top LCD screen? A paean to the Rebel line, perhaps?

I won't miss the top screen. In addition to it consuming power, there is a neat work around....use the rear LCD. It is much easier to read, and you can twist and turn it to where you can see it. First, you have to disable the [SHUTTER] from blanking the rear LCD. Press [INFO] until the screen appears that shows you exposure. Now when you press the [SHUTTER], the screen does not blank, and you have a real time display of exposure. No other manufacturer's cameras seem able to do this. All of them blank the rear screen when you press the shutter button, and there is no option to disable that behavior.

I'm about 15 years behind you. I'm not looking to buy any new bodies, either, not unless one fails.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

Tronhard — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 19:25:30 GMT

For we folks down under, the announcement came in the wee small hours, so I have been digesting the information and early reviews for the last hour or so.

First impressions are that, with the R5 and R6, Canon have exploded back into the forefront of the FF MILC market with specs to challenge all other manufacturers and assure them of a significant market presence for the foreseeable future.

The R5 seems to live up to all the hype for both still and video professional users and is a worthy mirrorless successor (or relative if you will) to the 5D. The R6 seems to me to be brilliantly spec'd and a much more affordable unit for enthusiasts and some pro's.

Personally, with the R6, I could live without the top LCD screen (although it would have been nice), but for the lower price one gets one a heck of a package. If I was in the market for a FF MILC (and like some of you I am a bit long in the tooth to change) I would likely go for the R6. Not being a videographer or blogger, I prefer the dual SD card storage option of the R6. The combination of a great, reasonable 20MP sensor (which I gather claims 1 stop over the R5) and the other features from the 1DXMkIII and R5 make it great value for money, especially for the amazing combination of IBIS + lens stabilization, and the improved DR. Canon had to differentiate somewhere between these two bodies and frankly, for the vast majority of people who view images digitally, I don't think it will make that much difference.

The future looks bright for newcomers to the FF digital market, but of course we will now be dealing with a slew of folks asking about whether they should upgrade or not...

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

wq9nsc — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 20:39:27 GMT

I think Canon potentially hit a home run for the market segments IF these two new cameras perform as well in reviews as the specs would suggest but we will know much more once people have then in operation. Video has become a major consideration for many purchasers and mirrorless is better suited for that, not surprisingly since mirrorless architecture has significant commonalities with camcorders. The emphasis Canon put on their recent software release which allows their existing and many previously sold model cameras to function as webcams shows their strong understanding of this part of the market.

For the great majority of users, these designs will perfectly fit the need and it will be a better choice for many who purchased 1 series cameras for mystique/conspicuous consumption but in reality have no need for the capabilities and build of a 1 series along with the added weight, size, and expense. For those of us who truly need what the 1 series can do, there isn't a mirrorless out there which is a good substitute. A real time viewfinder along with the faster focus acquisition of a dedicated AF sensor is still critical to capturing rapidly evolving action and the DSLR still has a big advantage in this environment.

Yesterday I shot this sequence of a catch during a 7 on 7 practice and thanks to the fast focus acquisition of the 1DX III, I caught this while shifting from focus on a lineman downfield to the receiver and defender just as the ball arrived. Many cameras could have captured this shot but because I stayed focused too long upon two linemen in an interesting match up I had to lean heavily upon the 1DX III's ability to make up for my lapse of timing and judgment and it came through for me with rapid sure focus acquisition.

The day before I captured the fourth photo of my daughter practicing kickoffs on her part of the field during intermittent showers putting the weather resistance of the 1DX III and EF 400 f2.8 to good use, the rain actually felt good because the temperature was 96 degrees just before the first rain shower. After three days of shooting three hour practice sessions and a bit over 1000 captures the 1DX III battery is still showing a full four bars. Different cameras/technologies have their own forte and should be applied accordingly. And because the state governing body just significantly revised their rules for phase 4 practice, there may not be any more opportunities for shots like these this summer 😞

Rodger

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

Tronhard — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 22:26:02 GMT

Roger,

First of all, great images. You are obviously a sports aficionado and for you the 1DXIII is right up your street.

That said, for the general purpose pro and serious enthusiast, the two new R series are hitting a sweet spot, and (IMHO) don't compete with the 1D series, which is way more expensive and designed for a specific market.

Frankly, I think Canon have done a great job with the FF MILC lineup now, and in due course we may see an R1 to do the same thing as your 1DXIII, but with it very recently released, I think it will be around for a while. What I would not be surprised at is a cheaper equivalent to the XXD DSLR range - now there are some cheaper R lenses available, and maybe an equivalent to the 5DsR at some stage...

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

wq9nsc — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:13:06 GMT

Thanks Tronhard and I expect both Canon and Nikon will have sports/performance oriented DSLR bodies available for quite some time until some important drawbacks can be addressed. In the 1DX segment, it isn't about whether or not it is mirrorless but how it performs the task at hand regardless of the platform used. Many people were shocked that the 1DX III was built with a 20 MP sensor when much more dense sensors were available but it is the proper size/density for what it is intended to do.

I expect 10 years from now the camera market is going to be much smaller than it is even today in terms of both unit sales and model variety and the "point and shoot" segment is going to be under fatal pressure soon because too few people want something a little more versatile and capable than their smartphone which is always with them and has wonderful megapixel specs and is perfectly sufficient to keep most casual image grabbers quite happy.

Rodger

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

John_SD — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:29:56 GMT

Very nice photos, and I am glad you are enjoying your 1DX III. But let's get real. These are just kids running around on the field. Any top-tier mirrorless and lens in production today could have taken similarly fine photos.

I expect the R5 and R6 to usher in the end of DSLRs as we know them. Doesn't mean that DSLRs, such as yours, or the D5, D6, or the D850 aren't great cameras and that people still can't take great images with them. But a look at Canon and Nikon's roadmaps and forthcoming mirrorless bodies and lenses confirm that the day of the DSLR is coming to an end, and sooner rather than later.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

Waddizzle — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:41:19 GMT

@John_SD wrote:
Very nice photos, and I am glad you are enjoying your 1DX III. But let's get real. These are just kids running around on the field. Any top-tier mirrorless and lens in production today could have taken similarly fine photos.

I expect the R5 and R6 to usher in the end of DSLRs as we know them. Doesn't mean that DSLRs, such as yours, or the D5, D6, or the D850 aren't great cameras and that people still can't take great images with them. But a look at Canon and Nikon's roadmaps and forthcoming mirrorless bodies and lenses confirm that the day of the DSLR is coming to an end, and sooner rather than later.

You should try out a an L Series lens.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

wq9nsc — Fri, 10 Jul 2020 00:02:58 GMT

John,

I shoot a wide range of sports and fortunately I have time to donate to the local high school. And shooting those kids on the field, when they play at night in a poorly lit high school stadium, is more difficult than shooting pros playing under state of the art lighting and this is where the capabilities of a 1DX III and EF 400 f2.8 pull away from the mirrorless consumer/ "pro-sumer" models.

For what you shoot, I am sure that any decent mirrorless and decent lens will do fine because it clearly is making you happy but it won't under the conditions that require a 1DX with L series prime tele level of performance. Removing a mirror doesn't magically improve the IQ since it isn't in the optical path when capturing images. Removing the dedicated AF sensor does slow down focus acquisition which would be a huge step back from what the 1DX series provides. Removing the mirror does allow the camera to be smaller, lighter, and cheaper but performance is why people buy 1 series cameras.

If a mirrorless pro body comes out that provides a real advantage over the DSLR type 1DX family I will be one of the early adopters. But I won't be buying anything based solely upon "it doesn't have a mirror so it must be better".

https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/future-of-dslrs/

Rodger

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

coachboz68 — Fri, 10 Jul 2020 03:25:50 GMT

I'm very excited about the new releases. After almost pulling the trigger on the Sony A7R a while back, I'm glad I waited. My use case is that I'm a sports photographer (hobbyist / volunteer) and I love my 1DX II beyond words. I will unlikely be giving it up anytime soon.

When I'm pulled into non-sporting shoots, that's where I've been waiting for the next-gen mirrorless from Canon and the R6 (on paper anyway) scratches that itch. Can't wait to hear some of the hands-on early adopter reviews! I'm glad to see Canon take this step forward.

Until then, I'll be more than happy to continue to get shots like this in dreadful high-school stadium lighting with my 1DX II and still look with some envy at those with the model III. 🙂

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

Waddizzle — Fri, 10 Jul 2020 04:24:27 GMT

Great capture! This is a screenshot of the forum from my computer.

You just may be doing a better job than you realize.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

coachboz68 — Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:08:39 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
Great capture! This is a screenshot of the forum from my computer.

You just may be doing a better job than you realize.

Thanks. The kid really loved it, too. 🙂 I played college ball and coached for a long time, so I have a good sense of the shots kids will like for football.

I had a 7D (mark i) for about 10 years before going to the 1DX II and the latter was just a game changer. I am still amazed at its focus capabilities and low-light performance at those high school stadiums. And ergonomically, it now just feels like an extension of my hand. Can't even imagine the mark iii!

It also did great for my daugthers' gymnastics. Makes lighting at HS football fields feel like you're standing on the sun. Atrocious at the club level, much better lighting in college where one of my daugther's landed for gymnastics. But those club meets... put every part of my patience and "skill" to the test for action shots.

I can see a day where I'm using the 1DX for all the action shots and the R-series for the more natural stuff on the sidelines and whatnot.

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

wq9nsc — Fri, 10 Jul 2020 12:14:27 GMT

Great shot Coach!

Rodger

Re: EOS R5/R6 launch

ScottS — Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:38:18 GMT

I'm looking to step into the mirrorless world within the next year ($$$), and had my eyes on the Canon EOS-R. But hearing and reading ALL the hype about the improvements coming (IBIS, Dual Card Slots, Improved IQ, Video Enhancements, & More) held my purchase.

Now that the Canon EOS R5 & R6 are official, I have a question for those of you wishing to chime in.

At this point, I am a Senior Portrait Photographer, with a few Family Sessions & Event Sessions in. Not a wedding photographer, but definitely also a Travel Photographer as a Co-Leader to the Indian Himalayas.

I own a Canon 6D (time to upgrade, I know, but $$$$$). My lenses include the 85mm1.8, 135mm2.0, Nifty Fifty, and some 4.0F-stops (Lightweight for Travel 70-200L, and the 16-35L.) As video is not a necessity for me yet, and IQ IS king for me, am I wrong in being disappointed with the 20.1 megapixel release on the EOS-R6? The EOS-R has 30.3.

I know the features are RICH on the R5, even the R6. And for many, the IBIS and Dual Card Slots are the deal-breaker.

For me at this time, those are not. What IS a deal-maker for me....is IQ.

Now to my question:

As the R5 is out of my financial option for now, is the Canon EOS-R a better choice for me than the EOS-R6 given those qualifications?

It seems to me it is.

Thanks for your input :)!!

Scott S