topic Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

shadowsports — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:07:47 GMT

I didn't get to see Canon's announcement today.

I don't care about 8K. All I really care about is whether or not it takes nice pictures.

The 4K at 120fps and 4.2.2 10bit is really going to smoke the competition. Sony and Panasonic can't be too happy about this. No crop in any mode. Holeey smokes.

And.. dual pixel AF In all supported video modes. Ka-Pow!

All I want to know now is what the battery is going to do, and how many digic processors it's going to have. The sensor(s) even at internal 8K are going to be (a) powerhouse(s).

And now those who waited for Canon's third generation mirrorless are going to reap the benefits. No touchbar, two slots, 45MP and finally supa dupa 4K.

Get ready for $700 RPs and $1400 R's When the R5 gets released.

My prediction $3299 with a control ring for a limited time.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

Waddizzle — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:53:24 GMT

Canon has yet to announce the resolution of the image sensor. The 45 MP figure is only a rumor, and one of the first to start circulating the rumor mills. If the camera is to fulfill what we do know from Canon, then sensor may only have about 20MP of resolution.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

rs-eos — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 11:02:21 GMT

For video, I want to first understand the tradeoffs.

For one, how is rolling shutter? It could be abysmal. Also, what's the codec?

Regarding 8K, I'm OK with that since when shooting HD on a device that can capture 4K, you get nice oversampling. Remember that "pixels" are not true pixels on image capture devices. Oversampling 4K by capturing 8K would be very nice.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

ebiggs1 — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:32:57 GMT

Ho hum!

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

kvbarkley — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:53:55 GMT

We should take bets about how quickly it takes Ernie to pooh pooh a mirrorless camera after the post first appears. 8^)

You know Ernie, we know your opinion, you don't have to comment every time.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

ebiggs1 — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:56:22 GMT

News flash that is what forums are for. Opinions! Nobody forces you to read them.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

RobertTheFat — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:13:11 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
We should take bets about how quickly it takes Ernie to pooh pooh a mirrorless camera after the post first appears. 8^)

You know Ernie, we know your opinion, you don't have to comment every time.

The question isn't how long it takes him to pooh-pooh the camera; it's how long it takes before he buys one.

Ernie ridicules almost everything new, but his curiosity almost always gets the better of him eventually. E.g., he swore he'd never buy a 1DX; now he says it's the best camera he's ever owned. Give him time.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

docusync — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:17:23 GMT

@Waddizzle Canon confirmed 8k DCI no crop. Simple math: 8192 / 1.5 x 8192 = 44739242. It's deinitely more than 20Mpx.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

Waddizzle — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:06:53 GMT

@docusync wrote:
@Waddizzle Canon confirmed 8k DCI no crop. Simple math: 8192 / 1.5 x 8192 = 44739242. It's deinitely more than 20Mpx.

True, and you are probably correct. But, if figuring out the sensor resolution were really that simple and straight forward, then why not just simply announce the sensor resolution? Everyone can do the math.

Being able to capture 45 MP at 20 fps would blow the 20MP 1Dx Mark III out of the water. I suspect that there may be a little bit more going on in the R5. Resolution for stills and resolution for video may not be one and the same.

The new C300 Cinema camera is able to read each pixel in a DPAF pair individually for increased dynamic range. One pixel reads the highs, while the other reads the lows. It effectively captures 4K HDR image data at real time. They are calling it DGO, Dual Gain Output.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

docusync — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:34:20 GMT

@Waddizzle I think the 1dx3 is a different beast for a completely different purpose. It has a higher battery voltage and can drive the lenses faster, most likely much more superior AF, 1Gb/s Ethernet, a powerful external wifi module, 4 more fps with the mechanical shutter, ruggedness, probably something else that I may not aware of.

I tried the electronic shutter on the EOS R and I'm not a huge fan of it. Lots of distorted images due to the jello effect. It's probably because the sensor read out speed is quite slow. Hopefully the R5 will address this issue.

I had no idea about DGO. It looks pretty cool! Seems like they tried to match the ARRI Alexa https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/04/21/canon-announces-the-c300-mark-iii/

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

ebiggs1 — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:11:06 GMT

"Ernie ridicules almost everything new, but his curiosity almost always gets the better of him eventually. E.g., he swore he'd never buy a 1DX; now he says it's the best camera he's ever owned. Give him time."

Robert, guilty as charged!

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

shadowsports — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:57:53 GMT

The funny thing is this. Even if the R5 comes with 45 megapixels I'd probably shoot at a lower res much of the time.

As stated earlier..

A 45MP resolution is indirectly confirmed through the revealed specifications.

Still speculative but looking good. All that's left is heat and battery life.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 07:25:38 GMT

@shadowsports wrote:
The funny thing is this. Even if the R5 comes with 45 megapixels I'll probably shoot at a lower res much of the time.

As stated earlier..
A 45MP resolution is indirectly confirmed through the revealed specifications.

Still speculative but looking good. All that's left is heat and battery life.

It sounds like you are beginning to see the same thing I have been seeing.

The official spec says something like 20 fps with the electronic shutter. If it can do that at 45 MP, who needs a 1Dx Mark III?

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

wq9nsc — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:45:09 GMT

Waddizzle,

With sports (and other fast action) the ability to immediately acquire focus or provide precise tracking is a lot more important than the megapixel race and that is who needs a 1DX series or top end Nikon DSLR body. As Canon Europe notes, the DSLR continues to have the advantage for sports: https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/future-of-dslrs/

A 45 MP sensor will always have worse low light / high ISO noise performance compared to a same technology sensor with fewer but larger photosites which each gather more light. A higher resolution sensor requires better technology to match the low light performance and low light performance is critical to sports shooting especially given the high shutter speed required to freeze action.

If I was doing primarily landscape or studio work then I would strongly consider moving to mirrorless but that different technology is not the best solution for sports shooters.

There are different tools which are best suited for different jobs. For sports, the responsiveness, build, and weather resistance along with the great ergomic feel/balance with the great white primes makes the 1DX series the current best tool and system for sports shooting.

Rodger

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 11:28:24 GMT

Rodger,

i agree. The 1Dx Series are a different type of camera. We do not yet know what the ISO performance will be on the R5. I expect it to exceed the EOS R by a full stop.

Why hasn't Canon announced the sensor resolution? As I noted in an earlier post, I am not yet fully convinced this camera will take 45MP stills with full DPAF at 20 FPS electronic shutter. I suspect that there is going to be some sort of sleight of hand in the works.

We do not know if this body is aimed to compete with the Sony A7s or the Sony A9s, yet.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

John_SD — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:44:49 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
Rodger,

i agree. The 1Dx Series are a different type of camera. We do not yet know what the ISO performance will be on the R5. I expect it to exceed the EOS R by a full stop.

Why hasn't Canon announced the sensor resolution? As I noted in an earlier post, I am not yet fully convinced this camera will take 45MP stills with full DPAF at 20 FPS electronic shutter. I suspect that there is going to be some sort of sleight of hand in the works.

We do not know if this body is aimed to compete with the Sony A7s or the Sony A9s, yet.

I don't know why Canon hasn't revealed the sensor resolution of the R5, but in Canon's own overview it states:

"Canon has developed an entirely new CMOS image sensor for the EOS R5. Image quality is at the heart of the EOS R System and the EOS R5 is set to raise the bar in high level still and video capture empowered by this new CMOS sensor and the new DIGIC processor."

Best guesses by the usual sites are that the R5 will be full unveiled by the end of May or early June. But who knows at this point. I have been reading that the sales of full frame cameras for all companies have been abysmal over the past few months, to the point of the bottom falling out. This will be disastrous year for all the companies, yet they do not seem intersted in being very aggressive in price cuts in an attempt to generate sales. So I don't have much sympathy for their financial plight, including Canon.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

RobertTheFat — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 17:26:32 GMT

@John_SD wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
Rodger,

i agree. The 1Dx Series are a different type of camera. We do not yet know what the ISO performance will be on the R5. I expect it to exceed the EOS R by a full stop.

Why hasn't Canon announced the sensor resolution? As I noted in an earlier post, I am not yet fully convinced this camera will take 45MP stills with full DPAF at 20 FPS electronic shutter. I suspect that there is going to be some sort of sleight of hand in the works.

We do not know if this body is aimed to compete with the Sony A7s or the Sony A9s, yet.
I don't know why Canon hasn't revealed the sensor resolution of the R5, but in Canon's own overview it states:

"Canon has developed an entirely new CMOS image sensor for the EOS R5. Image quality is at the heart of the EOS R System and the EOS R5 is set to raise the bar in high level still and video capture empowered by this new CMOS sensor and the new DIGIC processor."

Best guesses by the usual sites are that the R5 will be full unveiled by the end of May or early June. But who knows at this point. I have been reading that the sales of full frame cameras for all companies have been abysmal over the past few months, to the point of the bottom falling out. This will be disastrous year for all the companies, yet they do not seem intersted in being very aggressive in price cuts in an attempt to generate sales. So I don't have much sympathy for their financial plight, including Canon.

With the whole world awaiting Canon's announcement, it would be surprising if the sales of the current camera stock were not abysmal. (Would you buy a FF DSLR at its current price? I sure wouldn't.) What matters is what happens after details (including price) of the R5 are officially released. My guess is that the original wait list could be two months long.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

ebiggs1 — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 21:04:55 GMT

"My guess is that the original wait list could be two months long."

I can wait! Even longer!!

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

shadowsports — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:30:00 GMT

I'd be fine with 35MP and 4K 60fps.

Also agree that the buffer needed to capture 45MP at 20 shots a second would be massive. So there is going to be some kind of reveal, slight of hand, Ah-ha, something. The 5DS R can do 50MP 5fps... EOS R 8fps at 30MP

So what seems likely - R5... something like.

7fps at 45MP

12fps at 30MP

20fps at 20MP

The 5D4 does 7fps at 30MP. I don't honestly know what a mirrorless camera is capable of or what Canon has under the hood on the R5.

Re: R5 - Hopefully more good news to come from Canon

rs-eos — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:37:23 GMT

johnsmith101, you quoted what I mentioned earlier in this thread regarding oversampling. Did you mean to add in a question/comment on that?