topic Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 23:53:54 GMT

I use the shutter button to meter only and the AF-ON button to focus in servo mode. However, my live view focus doesn't work. There are references to this issue in this forum and elsewhere but nobody seems to give an explanation or work-around. I can do both (back button focus and live view focus) with my 90D and SL3, surely the 5D4 should also be able to do it.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Tim — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 01:13:10 GMT

Hello strutzj,

We're sorry this occurs. Would you be able to let the community know which lens or lenses you are using at the time?

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 01:46:23 GMT

Back button focus and live view focus is mutually exclusive on my Canon 5D Mark 4 with any lens I've tried (i.e.: Sigma 24-70mm Art, Canon 24-105mm L, and others). Camera firmware version is 1.2.1. It doesn't matter that the AF-ON button is set to focus, but rather setting the shutter button to meter only is what causes the problem. I shouldn't have to reprogram the shutter button every time I want to switch between back button focus or live view focus. Thanks for any help.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Tim — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:09:48 GMT

strutzj,

We're sorry this occurs. Unusual that it would happen. Does it occur when you shut the camera off, or change modes?

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:19:58 GMT

Back button focus and live view focus is mutually exclusive in all modes (i.e. P, Av, Tv, M, etc.). I don't think this is a unique problem, other people have had the same problem according to online comments. Please grab a 5D Mark 4 and try it yourself.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Tim — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:44:14 GMT

strutzj,

I would grab a camera if that were a possibility but at this time our offices are actually closed due to a statewide lockdown order. We regret any inconvenience that this may cause you at this time.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

RobertTheFat — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 05:28:17 GMT

@Tim wrote:
strutzj,

I would grab a camera if that were a possibility but at this time our offices are actually closed due to a statewide lockdown order. We regret any inconvenience that this may cause you at this time.

Since I do have a 5D4 handy, I just tried it, and it appears to work for me. I was using the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II lens. What exactly is the symptom that it's not working? Does it not focus? Does the shutter not fire?

FWIW, my camera is at firmware level 1.2.1, which I believe is the latest.

EDIT: I guess I wasn't in servo mode. Does that matter?

EDIT 2: Tried it again in AI Servo. Still seems to work.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 06:01:08 GMT

@strutzj wrote:
Back button focus and live view focus is mutually exclusive in all modes (i.e. P, Av, Tv, M, etc.). I don't think this is a unique problem, other people have had the same problem according to online comments. Please grab a 5D Mark 4 and try it yourself.

Try resetting the camera back to factory defaults.

Before you do, what focusing mode are you using in Live View. Try switching back to the default setting. There is one setting that focuses with the images sensor. Another setting drops the mirror and focuses with the AF Sensor, just as you would if you were using the viewfinder. This latter is the mode that you want.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

RobertTheFat — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:26:44 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@strutzj wrote:
Back button focus and live view focus is mutually exclusive in all modes (i.e. P, Av, Tv, M, etc.). I don't think this is a unique problem, other people have had the same problem according to online comments. Please grab a 5D Mark 4 and try it yourself.
Try resetting the camera back to factory defaults.

Before you do, what focusing mode are you using in Live View. Try switching back to the default setting. There is one setting that focuses with the images sensor. Another setting drops the mirror and focuses with the AF Sensor, just as you would if you were using the viewfinder. This latter is the mode that you want.

Whichever of those focusing modes I was using when it appeared to work for me, the camera did not drop the mirror.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:57:08 GMT

When configured for back button focus (AF-ON reconfigured for servo focus and shutter button configured for metering only) and I attemp to use live view focus, the shutter fires but focus doesn't move. Reprogramming the shutter button for normal operation (metering and focus), live view focus works fine (i.e. it focuses on the point of touch and the shutter fires).

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

RobertTheFat — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 13:29:32 GMT

@strutzj wrote:
When configured for back button focus (AF-ON reconfigured for servo focus and shutter button configured for metering only) and I attemp to use live view focus, the shutter fires but focus doesn't move. Reprogramming the shutter button for normal operation (metering and focus), live view focus works fine (i.e. it focuses on the point of touch and the shutter fires).

With the shutter button reconfigured for metering only, the focus shouldn't change when you press it. Are you saying that pressing the AF-ON button doesn't cause it to focus either? I couldn't reproduce that problem when I tried it last night.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:52:07 GMT

No, no. The AF-ON does not seem to have anything to do with the problem other than it is part of back button reconfiguration.

Here's the problem, read carefully: configuring the shutter button for "metering only", as part of back button focusing, disables focusing for both the shutter button and, unexpectedly, the live view screen. It shouldn't do this: configuring the shutter button should effect only the shutter button and not the live view screen.

This feels like a firmware error but my version is the most recent 1.2.1 I don't know what other configuration parameter would effect this. I agree that resetting the camera to factory settings as a last resort may fix the problem but I'm not there yet. I want to know why this is happening.

Hope this helps you to understand. Thanks for your comments.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

RobertTheFat — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 16:22:15 GMT

@strutzj wrote:
No, no. The AF-ON does not seem to have anything to do with the problem other than it is part of back button reconfiguration.

Here's the problem, read carefully: configuring the shutter button for "metering only", as part of back button focusing, disables focusing for both the shutter button and, unexpectedly, the live view screen. It shouldn't do this: configuring the shutter button should effect only the shutter button and not the live view screen.

This feels like a firmware error but my version is the most recent 1.2.1 I don't know what other configuration parameter would effect this. I agree that resetting the camera to factory settings as a last resort may fix the problem but I'm not there yet. I want to know why this is happening.

Hope this helps you to understand. Thanks for your comments.

What does "focusing for the live view screen" mean, exactly? The live view screen doesn't focus itself. If the shutter button doesn't do it (and you've programmed it not to), then the AF-ON button has to. When I push the AF-ON button on my 5D4, it does. Are you saying that it doesn't when you push it?

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:42:21 GMT

@strutzj wrote:
No, no. The AF-ON does not seem to have anything to do with the problem other than it is part of back button reconfiguration.

Here's the problem, read carefully: configuring the shutter button for "metering only", as part of back button focusing, disables focusing for both the shutter button and, unexpectedly, the live view screen. It shouldn't do this: configuring the shutter button should effect only the shutter button and not the live view screen.

This feels like a firmware error but my version is the most recent 1.2.1 I don't know what other configuration parameter would effect this. I agree that resetting the camera to factory settings as a last resort may fix the problem but I'm not there yet. I want to know why this is happening.

Hope this helps you to understand. Thanks for your comments.

You are mistaken. The [AF-ON] button being used for BBF has everything to do with it. Removing [AF-ON] functionality from the [SHUTTER] button means that the default method of initiating AF has been overridden is now on the [AF-ON] button.

This behavior applies to both viewfinder shooting and Live View shooting. You may disagree, but this is the proper behavior, which I explained just above.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:50:45 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@strutzj wrote:
No, no. The AF-ON does not seem to have anything to do with the problem other than it is part of back button reconfiguration.

Here's the problem, read carefully: configuring the shutter button for "metering only", as part of back button focusing, disables focusing for both the shutter button and, unexpectedly, the live view screen. It shouldn't do this: configuring the shutter button should effect only the shutter button and not the live view screen.

This feels like a firmware error but my version is the most recent 1.2.1 I don't know what other configuration parameter would effect this. I agree that resetting the camera to factory settings as a last resort may fix the problem but I'm not there yet. I want to know why this is happening.

Hope this helps you to understand. Thanks for your comments.
What does "focusing for the live view screen" mean, exactly? The live view screen doesn't focus itself. If the shutter button doesn't do it (and you've programmed it not to), then the AF-ON button has to. When I push the AF-ON button on my 5D4, it does. Are you saying that it doesn't when you push it?

Robert is correct. When you remove [AF-ON] functionality from the default "shutter button" for viewfinder shooting, this behavioral change carries over into Live View, too.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:39:24 GMT

Nope, I disagree. I also have a 90D and an SL3; they're set up *exactly-the-same-way" and they work as expected; that is the back button focusing works by pressing the AF-ON button while the live view focus occurs when you touch the back touch screen. ***The 5D4 does not work the same way***.

All three camera setups: shutter button = "metering start", AF-ON button = "metering and AF start". This is the wording from the menu.

The live view focus system works separately from the viewfinder focus system. The viewfinder focus system uses a separate focus sensor while the live view focus system utilizes the image sensor. Removing focus from the shutter button should have absolutely nothing to do with live view (screen touch) focusing.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:54:34 GMT

@strutzj wrote:
Nope, I disagree. I also have a 90D and an SL3; they're set up *exactly-the-same-way" and they work as expected; that is the back button focusing works by pressing the AF-ON button while the live view focus occurs when you touch the back touch screen. ***The 5D4 does not work the same way***.

All three camera setups: shutter button = "metering start", AF-ON button = "metering and AF start". This is the wording from the menu.

The live view focus system works separately from the viewfinder focus system. The viewfinder focus system uses a separate focus sensor while the live view focus system utilizes the image sensor. Removing focus from the shutter button should have absolutely nothing to do with live view (screen touch) focusing.

Excuse me. You have not been clear on what your issue is. Your complaint is evolving. This is your original post.

"I use the shutter button to meter only and the AF-ON button to focus in servo mode. However, my live view focus doesn't work. There are references to this issue in this forum and elsewhere but nobody seems to give an explanation or work-around. I can do both (back button focus and live view focus) with my 90D and SL3, surely the 5D4 should also be able to."

Your original complaint was clearly with the [AF-ON] on button not initiating AF in Live View mode. Now, you are complaining about what appears to be Touch AF when using Live View.

Robert asked you a question to clarify what your exact complaint seems to be.

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:19:46 GMT

I guess it's my fault for not being clear but I don't know how explain it any simpler. I've explained it several times and you're just not getting it. My issue has NOT changed. It remains that I cannot use live view focusing when the camera is configured for back button focus. I repeat that the same settings work on two other Canon cameras and it should work with my 5D4 - but it doesn't. What else can I say about that?

I appreciate your comments, the most useful suggestion has been to see what happens after resetting the camera to factory settings. But I'm still holding out for a knowledge based solution. This forum doesn't seem to be the place to find it...

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:33:00 GMT

@strutzj wrote:
I guess it's my fault for not being clear but I don't know how explain it any simpler. I've explained it several times and you're just not getting it. My issue has NOT changed. It remains that I cannot use live view focusing when the camera is configured for back button focus. I repeat that the same settings work on two other Canon cameras and it should work with my 5D4 - but it doesn't. What else can I say about that?

I appreciate your comments, the most useful suggestion has been to see what happens after resetting the camera to factory settings. But I'm still holding out for a knowledge based solution. This forum doesn't seem to be the place to find it...

You STILL have not answered Robert's question.

So, I guess you want to use Touch AF, but it does not seem to work. Can you navigate menus by touching the screen?

Re: 5D4 - can't use live view focus when configured for back button focus

strutzj — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:40:36 GMT

"So, I guess you want to use Touch AF, but it does not seem to work. Can you navigate menus by touching the screen?"

Correction: Touch AF-works-when-the-camera-is-not-configured-for-BBF. I've said this. Yes, I can navigate menus by touching the screen - the touch screen works just fine.