topic Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!! in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

walstonbball — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 03:59:54 GMT

Read a lot of forums and watched a lot of videos and I think I figured it out!

I open EOS Utility, plug my M50 into my iMac with a micro USB (one made for data transfer, such as a phone cable), then open live view mode and move it into a different window by itself.

Next, I open OBS and add a window capture and select the live view window. I crop it and I am good to go!

Note: You have to make sure the M50 screen is out and flipped into selfie mode, this is what keeps the camera from freezing after 30 minutes.

Now you have a streaming camera with continuous autofocus for longer than 30 minutes, oh and without a capture card!

I hope this is able to help someone that ran into the same issues as me!

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

Ray-uk — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 09:44:13 GMT

Then you sit back and wait for the sensor to overheat and burn out.

Much better to buy a proper video camera.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

Niall — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:13:03 GMT

Hey Ray,

How long do I have to sit back and wait for the sensor to overheat and burn out? Will that get me up to 60FPS?

I'm assuming you're on these forums to be a Valued Contributer like it says under your name and give help and advice to fellow Audio/Visual heads.

If not then take your stupid sarcasm back to whatever high horse you came down on.

Unapologetically,

Someone who hasn't time for this.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

kvbarkley — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:16:16 GMT

While the tone might have a touch of sarcasm, the advice does not. It is a known fact that still cameras are not designed to run the sensor indefinitely. In fact, in the Lens Rentals podasts they specifically warn against this, saying you should shoot for short periods - minutes - and let it rest for twice as long as you ran it to let it cool.

Remember, when taking a video with a still camera,most of the pixels are taking data that is simply thrown away since the video resolution is much smaller than the still resolution. Not an efficient use of the silicon.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

shadowsports — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:33:31 GMT

Sorry Niall,

It's you who has unrealistic expectations, and your sensor will eventually overheat, possibly leaving you without a functioning camera. Digital still cameras are not designed to record or be used as a live view web cam, etc for extended periods.

Part of this is the european union and tarrifs and part of it is design related.

Ray's advice is reasonable. We're sorry it's not what you wanted to hear.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

wq9nsc — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:22:28 GMT

Ray IS one of the most valuable contributors here and his advice is spot on.

The M50 is a still camera with video capabilities and it does fine as long as used within those capabilities but it wasn't intended for the 100% duty cycle of sustained video which would have changed the design and required a far higher price point.

The heat problem isn't just the sensor but also the A/D converter and the supporting data pipeine and these parts increase the ambient temperature of all components in the camera. The 1 series have a much more robust design with additional size to reject heat and a heat pipe design to move heat away from sensitive components but it still has video thermal limitations even at its size and price point. And although it probably doesn't matter if one is using bright lighting for the video portion but sensor and A/D noise will increase as the temperature rises, an inescapable part of the thermal behavior of electronic components and one of the challenges for mirrorless designs in general when best low light performance is needed.

Rodger

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

docusync — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 07:11:21 GMT

@Ray-uk

LOL no......... You seem confuse long exposures with long sessions.

30 min is a standard limitation on all stills cameras to overcome the EU tax on video recorders introduced in 2006.

If you have an external recorder like Atomos Ninja - you can record as long as you want. Lots of people shoot video this way, and even more run studio sessions with the LV on for many hours non stop.

I stream from the EOS R (outdoors, ~80F+) to a remote computer (indoors) for a few hours with no issues.

During long shooting sessions the heat is produced by all parts of the camera (CPU, bus, etc.), not just the sensor. If it's not disspated _properly_ - the camera will overheat, and the protection mechanism will kick in and simply shut it down. I've seen it on the early Sony A7 models, but never on a Canon.

The long exposures indeed can lead to sensor overheating, extra noise (due to overheating), etc... That's why astrophotographers are using modified cameras with cooled sensors.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

Ray-uk — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:11:59 GMT

@docusync wrote:
@Ray-uk
LOL no......... You seem confuse long exposures with long sessions.

If you are using the live view image from the camera for live streaming then this is exactly the the same as a long exposure, it still uses the sensor and the electronics in the same way, the only difference is that it doesn't use the shutter (either physical or electronic) to obtain a timed exposure.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

ebiggs1 — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 16:03:20 GMT

I don't video. I don't stream. I don't even use Liveview. And, I admit I largely repeat what others have told me, or I have read, about video on a DSLR. It would be nice if some real evidence and data was available or a statement from Canon as to the harm or lack thereof from doing it. I remember in some of my earlier manuals from Canon they advised against letting the camera overheat from long usage or high temperature.

"If the camera’s internal temperature increases due to prolonged Live View shooting or a high ambient temperature, a white s icon will appear. If you continue shooting while this icon is displayed, the image quality of still photos may deteriorate. You should stop the Live View shooting and allow the camera to cool down before shooting again. If the camera’s internal temperature further increases while the white s icon is displayed, a red E icon will start blinking. This blinking icon is a warning that the Live View shooting will soon be terminated automatically. If this happens, you will not be able to shoot again until the camera’s internal temperature decreases. Turn off the power and let the camera rest for a while.'

To me and analogy might be a person that buys a screwdriver to be used as a pry bar. Now you certainly can use a screwdriver as a pry bar but how much better off are you to buy a real pry bar? Use the proper tool for the job. Not always a good idea to bandaide a tool to do what it wasn't designed to do.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

John_SD — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:25:49 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Use the proper tool for the job. Not always a good idea to bandaide a tool to do what it wasn't designed to do.

Our self-described "filmmakers" and wannabe YouTube artistes can't really afford a proper video camera. Thus they are stuck with their overblown aspirations as they struggle to master the video capabilities of their T6, T5, or M50, often without bothering to download and use the full manual. I've frequently seen them get upset when offered real advice, so why bother?

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

Waddizzle — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:48:05 GMT

@John_SD wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
Use the proper tool for the job. Not always a good idea to bandaide a tool to do what it wasn't designed to do.
Our self-described "filmmakers" and wannabe YouTube artistes can't really afford a proper video camera. Thus they are stuck with their overblown aspirations as they struggle to master the video capabilities of their T6, T5, or M50, often without bothering to download and use the full manual. I've frequently seen them get upset when offered real advice, so why bother?

Don't be so hard on them. We all have to start somewhere, and for most of us it is usually on the wrong foot.

I have no wish to discourage anyone from pursuing a dream. The problem that creeps in that many people do not have an action plan on how to achieve their dreams. They need to learn how to define a set of intermediate goals, to build a staircase to the top.

So, don't be so hard on them. They just need to be given better options, and pointed in a better direction.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

docusync — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 03:36:23 GMT

@Ray-uk

It's similar but not exactly the same. If you shoot a 30 fps video @ 1/100s - your sensor is being scanned 30 times per second, exposing each pixel for 1/100s. It means the sensor will be idling ~70% of each second (while the ADC, CPU, etc will be working on transforming, encoding and storing your stream).

Shooting a long exposure makes the sensor work 100% of time. I.e. if you're shooting a 10 min long exposure - each photo site is "working" 10 min non stop. It's a huge difference.

10 min long exposure shots without proper cooling are extremely noisy (crazy noisy!). If you grab the first and last frames from a 10 min video (preferrably 4k / low compression) - you won't see much noise difference.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

kvbarkley — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:19:49 GMT

I see your theory and raise you another one: What causes all the heat is the *readout* of the sensor, not gathering light. The long exposure only does it when the shutter closes, while the video does it continuously.

Look, if it wasn't a problem, Canon would not have built a warning into the firmware! None of the still shooting modes have this warning.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

ebiggs1 — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:29:33 GMT

"... if you're shooting a 10 min long exposure - each photo site is "working" 10 min non stop."

I realize you were just trying to make a point but in reality a 10 minute long exposure would be and is extremely rare. A 30 second exposure which most cameras can do from the factory is also rare albeit less rare. Unless a special situation most general photographers don't/won't do that long exposures.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

docusync — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:14:20 GMT

@ebiggs1 it's not rare in astrophotography. You can't live without the bulb mode if you're into serious astro.

Besides astro - any landscape work involving 10 or 15 stop ND filter to smooth out water or sky can easily take a few minutes.

@kvbarkley I didn't mention anywhere the sensor is overheating from gathering light. It's all about how much actual work is done in the sensor vs other camera components. The heat can build up in the sensor or anywhere else. The sensor heat is leading to extra noise. It won't kill though - any modern camera is equipped with a thermal protection mechanism. I'm not aware of any firmware warnings telling "do not shoot a video longer than 30 min or do not do an exposure longer than ... minutes. The 30 minutes video limit is only related to the EU tax. Even the video-centric Panasonic GH cameras have it. To overcome the limit all modern cameras offer a clean HDMI output so they can be used with an external recorder for any period of time.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

kvbarkley — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:30:03 GMT

I will only say that Canon has an overheating warning when shooting video, but not when shooting stills. hmmm.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

docusync — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:09:49 GMT

@kvbarkley Have you ever seen this warning? I don't exclude a possibility it will show up if you leave the camera under direct sunlight for an hour or two, and no matter if you do stills or video the camera will probably shut down anyway. It's not something we would call normal circumstances though.

@John_SD Quite a few multi-million dollar Hollywood movies were partially shot on the 5D series cameras. Iron Man, Mad Max FR, Capitain America, etc... Even the entire "House" season 6 finale. People behind those 5D cameras probably not as good filmakers as you, but I guess they could afford a proper video camera?

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

Ray-uk — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:40:08 GMT

Quite a few multi-million dollar Hollywood movies were partially shot on the 5D series cameras. Iron Man, Mad Max FR, Capitain America, etc... Even the entire "House" season 6 finale. People behind those 5D cameras probably not as good filmakers as you, but I guess they could afford a proper video camera?

Professional movie makers do not stream video of 30 minutes or more they take multiple short clips and edit them together.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

kvbarkley — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:08:40 GMT

If a professional burns up a camera they just grab another off the shelf.

Look, if you want to shorten the life of your camera, go ahead. Just don't complain about Canon quality when it happens.

Re: How to Stream Longer than 30 minutes with Canon M50 with autofocus, NO capture card!!

docusync — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:55:58 GMT

@Ray-uk You're quouting me out of context. It was a reply to someone who claimed only n00bs are using stills cameras for video. I already told you why there is 30 min limit. Don't take my word for it - just google "why cameras have 30 minutes recordig limit".

@kvbarkley What make you think that youtube bloggers, some of them making millions in annual revenue, are not professionals? Do you have any confirmed stats how many people actually burnt their cameras while shooting videos? Like zero probably?

Cameras are tools. If you buy a camera and don't do anything with it because the usage is shortening its life - you're probably doing it wrong. Remember, every click shortens the life of your shutter 😉 Also, I didn't "complain" anywhere about Canon quality.