topic Re: 70D bounce flash in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

70D bounce flash

one — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:57:51 GMT

Hi,

Recently I upgraded my 650D to the 70D and I noticed that the pictures are a lot darker (underexposed) when bouncing the flash. I have tested this with several other cameras, the 600D, 650D and the 700D using the 430EXII and 580EX all with the 18-135 STM. All but the 70D resulted in acceptable exposure.

Is there a setting I am missing? I used both the [A+] and P setting.

Re: 70D bounce flash

ebiggs1 — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:54:28 GMT

I think a trip into the menu settings would be appropriate.

Set everything back to factory defaults. Now try the flash in the P mode.

Re: 70D bounce flash

one — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:08:27 GMT

I have done a factory reset but did not see any difference.
I did notice that a pre flash has a positive effect. But I have to press the '*' button every time, which limits me to take quick pictures. This was not needed on the other models and it does not work in the [A+] mode.

Re: 70D bounce flash

ebiggs1 — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:54:54 GMT

The control dial, located on the left side of the camera's top plate, is divided into a Basic Zone and more advanced manual and semi-manual control. The Basic Zone lets you choose from: A+, which is fully automatic, the simplest, point-and-shoot mode and the go-to setting for first-timers.

And not the one I want you to select! Try "P" instead. This is after you are certain the camera and the flash are set to factory defaults.

It is mongo important to get this right before you go to custom changing or accidental changing of things. We must establish that the equipment is all working properly first off.

Re: 70D bounce flash

amfoto1 — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:36:15 GMT

Did you test the other cameras and flashes under exactly the same conditions?.

Any time you bounce a flash, you're the mercy of whatever you are bouncing off of.... If a ceiling or wall is too far away, or it absorbs too much light, or is any color other than neutral white, it's going to effect your images.

It could simply be that too much light is being lost in the bounce.... It not only at least doubles the distance light has to travel, many surfaces also absorb a lot of light. Beyond a certain point, a flash simpy won't have enough output to handle it.

Also try using M setting on your camera, with ISO set to something like 400, shutter speed 1/250 or lower and around f2.8 to f5.6 aperture.

All Canon cameras treat the flash as "fill" when used in any of the auto exposure modes.... That's a reduction from full output by -1.5 or -1.7 stops, if memory serves. The camera makes exposure according to ambient light, and only fires the flash partially to open up the shadows.

If you use M or Manual mode instead, the camera treats the flash as the primary or only source of light and will fire "full" flash, ignoring ambient light.

Most of the time when bouncing a flash, you would want to use M I would think. When using direct flash, then it makes more sense to use it as a fill, and switch to Av, Tv or P.

All that aside, one would expect all Canon cameras to give roughly the same results with a flash, everytihng else being equal. I have heard other reports that the 70D tends to underexpose bounced flash. So it might be something we see addressed in a future firmware update. But in the meantime, try M and see if it works better... it makes more sense to use full flash for bounce, anyway.

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM

Re: 70D bounce flash

TCampbell — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:53:28 GMT

It's possible that you have flash exposure compensation (sometimes called just "flash compensation") either turned up on your old camera or turned down on your new camera.

Your manual will explain how to adjust this either using the on-camera menu -or- refer to the manual that came with your flash to do it using the menu on the back of the flash. Note that if you change it using the menu on the flash itself, it often locks the camera out of being able to change it using the on-camera menu (until you return the flash to the "0" position on flash compensation.)

Re: 70D bounce flash

one — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 23:40:47 GMT

Thank you all for your reply.

Although I did not shoot the different cameras in a studio setting, the conditions were equal. I also swopt the flashes as I thought the 580EX was more powerfull. At the end it made no difference. BTW flash compensation where all set to 0 and with [A+] you cannot set it anyway. And yes, I also expected the cameras would should about the same quality from the same brand, especially in [A+]. Quite a bummer for a more expensive camera.

I noticed that the pictures did had the same ISO setting of 1600 and shutter of 1/60. The pictures where not just a bit darker but a lot with the 70D. You could only see the shapes of the people (70D) and with the 700D you could clearly see the faces. Even in P mode setting the flash compensation to +3 this was not enough. The ceiling was white and about 4 meters. With a lower ceiling it was a bit better, but noticebly darker (about 2 stops).

Does Canon have a known bug list?

Re: 70D bounce flash

bobn4burton — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 00:09:02 GMT

What the OP is seeing is a fairly well documented problem at this point. I believe the problem is a bug/defect with most (if not all) 70D's. I'm hoping Canon will be able to address this problem via a firmware update.

The problem has been documented in several threads:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3591509

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1347702

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52625732

In two of those threads I've posted some results of testing I did measuring the flash output with a light sensor and oscilloscope. I believe those results are fairly conclusive that there is a defect/bug with the 70D.

I'll repost my results from that testing here for anyone interested...

Test setup:

Used tripod in fixed location
Results taken from 70D and Xsi
In all cases, only the body was swapped out. Used same lens/flash between camera bodies
All shots taken in Manual mode, 1/100 shutter, f5.6, iso-800
I did not touch ANY settings during the whole shoot (except for FEC on the 70D on one shot per focal length...see more explanation below)
I enabled an option on my scope to capture at 56Mpts memory depth. With this increased depth, I was able to capture enough data in a single capture to show both the pre-flash and also the real flash and still be able to zoom into each flash event with enough fidelity left to show an accurate measurement.

Attached image explanation:

For the three attached images, there are three rows each.
Top row is 70D, second row is Xsi, third row is 70D...same config but I took multiple shots adjusting the FEC until the flash output was nearly identical to the flash output from the Xsi.
First column is a scope capture showing the pre-flash, followed by the real flash.
Second column is still from the same capture of both flashes in column 1, but zoomed into the pre-flash
Third column is still from the same capture of both flashes in column 1, but zoomed into the 'real' exposing flash
Fourth column is the picture correlating to the scope data captured.

Conclusions so far:

There is almost NO DOUBT a defect/bug with at least some 70D's.
I don't believe there is any timing problems...the under-exposure simply is from the camera telling the flash to output a lower level than it should.
The 50mm data from the 18-135mm vs from the 50mm f1.8 is VERY interesting. With all settings identical and just swapping the lens...exposure between the two lenses should be nearly identical. This right here is one of the reasons I think we can confidently claim that this problem is NOT user error, nor claim the camera is doing what its supposed to and trying to save highlights. The camera is clearly NOT doing what it should be doing when the 18-135mm lens (or other slower max aperture lenses are attached).
The problem is definitely related to max aperture. I really want to test a non-canon slow lens to see if it does the same thing or if its only applicable to canon lenses.
Pre-flash output looks normal for both cameras.
In the first attached image (18-135mm lens @ 135mm), I had to dial in +2-1/3 FEC on the 70D in the third row to match the flash output of the Xsi (resulting in nearly identical exposure).
In the second attached image (18-135mm lens @ 50mm), I had to dial in +2.0 FEC on the 70D in the third row to match the flash output of the Xsi (resulting in nearly identical exposure).
In the third attached image (50mm f1.8 lens @ 50mm), I had to dial in +0.0 FEC on the 70D in the third row to match the flash output of the Xsi (resulting in nearly identical exposure).

Images are fairly large to show all columns/rows/data. I've included links in the summary below so you can download the original size pictures. You probably want to view original size to see all details accurately.

Please let me know if anyone can think of additional testing I can do with a scope to further define the parameters of this defect/bug...

Attached file summary (also links to full resolution pics):

Picture #1

Picture #2

Picture #3

Re: 70D bounce flash

israelury — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 21:16:03 GMT

I haven't heard anything on this subject in a long time. My 70D is still sitting in my drawer waiting for a firmware upgrade to come out. I mostly shoot flash but the exposure varies tremendously with my 580EXII so the camera is useless. Has there been any progress in solving this problem?

Re: 70D bounce flash

socal13 — Tue, 20 May 2014 15:03:23 GMT

Thanks bobnburton for all your diligence on this. Has there been any resolution on this issue? I am experiencing similar symptoms on my 70D with 580exii. The underexposure happens with any type of flash modifier (bounce, softbox, etc). I'll get a good exposure if I use FEL, but then focusing exactly on the same subject without FEL the exposure is quite dark. This happens primarily with the 18-135 lens, and most noticeable if zoomed. At wide angle I don't notice the problem. On my 17-55 f/2.8 I don't notice it at all until I zoom all the way out to 55mm (not that much of a zoom) and then I see about 1 stop difference between FEL and non-FEL.

I've tried ISO 400 to 1600, with and without safety shift, all exposure metering modes, and see the exact problem throughout.

The one thing that seems to improve the issue is if I use Average flash metering mode rather than Evaluative. I still see a difference between FEL and non-FEL shots, but much less so (even on the 18-135 zoomed). I guess that's a reasonable workaround, but not sure what else I give up by making that switch. It may be a problem if doing focus lock and re-compose shots. At any rate, there shouldn't be such a huge underexposure issue in Evaluative flash mode.

I'd be very appreciative if anyone can give an update as to what has been found or what actions are being taken on this. I've got an evening event to shoot in a couple of months, and really want a reliable way to produce "soft" light for candid shots with my 70D.

Thanks for any info you have....

Re: 70D bounce flash

bobn4burton — Wed, 21 May 2014 01:38:38 GMT

No resolution to my knowledge... 😞

It's the only thing that I don't like about the 70D. Really drives me nuts.

Re: 70D bounce flash

dg — Wed, 04 Jun 2014 01:35:54 GMT

I recently experience the same issue on Mar 22, 2014. I spoke with Canon Canada and did not achieve much. I decided the camera is defective and returned it.

I bought another 70D on Apr 25, 2014, which shows exactly the same behavior. I spoke with Canon again, this time I sent them pictures showing the difference in exposure between XSi and 70D. I did not get much of a reply, so I returned the second camera too.

I but I am still taking to Canon. I got them to acknowledge that there is something going on with the bounce flash, although in their experiments the results are not as severe as the one I observed. My call was recently escalated to the next level - people that I cannot talk directly with, but my Technical Support Representative will talk to on my behalf.

Here is a short summary of my findings so far and how to reproduce the issue:

1. Make sure you eliminate the ambient light from the experiment. How? Go manual mode, fix the ISO to 200 or 400, set the aperture to 5.6 and the speed to 1/250 (use 1/200 if you are comparing to XSi or to other camera that cannot normally sync above 200). Take a shot without the flash. The picture should be really dark, or you have too much light in the room. Why do you need to do this: because with the default settings in P mode and with bounce flash the camera will select ISO 1600, shutter speed 1/60 and the max aperture of the lens (F4 for example). With those setting you will get a dissent exposure without any flash. When I tried with 28 F/2.8 lens this is exactly what happened - the camera went to F4, it did not even need to be 2.8 and I got a perfectly exposed shot. To make things worse a lot of lenses are actually shower than what they tell you - check DXOMark and their Transmission graph to find out more. This can explain why some lenses work and some does not - sometimes the lens is more than 2/3 EV slower than it claims.

2. Now that you know how the picture looks like without the flash turn on the flash and take another shot. Whatever difference you see is the light from the flash. If you do the same with XSi you will get very reasonable picture. With 70D your results will vary and depend on the type of the flash (more specifically how low the flash power can go), the distance from the subject and the ceiling.

3. Now switch the flash to manual and try the picture with full power. That will prove to you that the flash has more than enough power to give you the proper exposure.

4. Go back to TTL, put a gray card in the scene (if you did not have it already, it is a very easy way to measure the underexposure) and try a FEL on it (focus, put the gray card in the middle of the frame, hit FEL, recompose, take the shot). This proves to you that the camera is fully capable of measuring the proper exposure and communicating with the flash.

The explanation that I have for the behavior is this:

It used to be that under these circumstances the flash was becoming main light. Now the flash is always used as fill light only. May be that makes sense to someone in Canon since at ISO 3200 or 6400 you have enough light (at home or in the office) to shoot with the available/ambient light, so you need flash for fill only. But to have enough light you need the high ISO and a slower shutter speed. I personally don't like that. It should be the photographer's choice if the flash is main light or fill light - may be you don't like the quality of the available light or you need to stop the motion through either high shutter speed or the short light pulse from the flash. Those use cases are still valid and I don't see them going away.

One way to prove the flash is only fill is to put a color gel on it. You will observe that the color tones change just slightly in the shades and the colored light is visible mostly in the very dark shadows. If you manage to get all of your picture in the gel color this means you are at the point when the flash just cannot go lower in power. You can verify that by switching to manual and setting the minimum power the flash allows (typically 1/64 or 1/128).

In all fairness it appears that the result depends on the lens more than it depends on the flash. In a experiment that I did just once at a camera show I found that with the stock lense (18-135 STM) I had a successful bounce flash with 3 difference flash models. I kept everything exactly the same but switched the lens to my 55-250 IS and the picture came out totally dark. I could not try it too many times, since the people I was bouncing the flash at were not very happy with me and I did not want to annoy them more than I needed to.

I still love the 70D body, but the bounce flash issue is a show stopper for me. I normally shoot with a remote flash triggered optically (non-TTL, digital slave mode) in manual mode. 70D was supposed to enable me to do TTL off camera flash, but instead I lost the ability to shoot with on camera bounce flash (I can still do the optical trigger, but that is not the point).

I will share any news I hear from Canon here. In the mean time can somebody re-try the experiment with 18-135 STM and 55-250 IS? Not that I will buy a new stock lens even if it works with it, but I still want to know.

On a side note I tried the bounce flash with 6D and 24-105 F4. That one worked too, although other threads are talking about exactly the same issue on 6D. I have seen the issue reported against 5D mark III too. The common thing between those cameras is the ability to use very high ISO (and the release dates), which makes the flash as main light way less important.

If someone has found a way of making the flash on these cameras act as main source of light, please enlighten us! I will buy my 3rd 70D immediately. Unless Canon decides to send me one for my contribution to this troubleshooting of course.

Re: 70D bounce flash

dg — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 03:52:21 GMT

Had another conversation with Canon Canada - they escalated the issue to Canon USA and the answer is: the meter is confused by light coming from the viewfinder. Which is **. It is the one of the first answers that I received from Canon and I tried covering the viewfinder - does not change anything.

In the mean time I went to the store and tried a few pictures with different comibinations of both on camera and wireless TTL flash. Every time when the flash is pointing directly to the subject, either on camera or off camera I get proper exposure. Every time when the flash is bouncing from something, even if that is a wall 20cm from the flash, the picture is underexposed. One of the solid results is that with everything the same switching the flash to manual model and 1/2 power produces proper exposure, while +2EV FEC has practically no impact on the heavily underexposed image.

As a reference here is a thread about 580 EX II and 5D mark III showing the same issues:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3222627

The last experiment that I will do before jumping the ship and buying Nikon D7100 is to try a real camera shop and asking the sales people to show me a working bounce flash with 70D.

Mod Note: Edited for language per forum guidelines.

Re: 70D bounce flash

dg — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 00:52:03 GMT

I visited 2 real camera stores and asked about the underexposure. In the first store they guy spend the time with me, reproducing the problem with both my flash and the 430 EX II from the store, on a 70D body that they use as a demo. The clean experiment is like this:

1. Put the flash on manual, 1/2 power, pointed up (75 or 90 degree, with or without the bounce card)

2. Set the camera to M, shutter 1/200 and find a combination of ISO and apperture that provides proper exposure on the subject (about 1 m from the camera) - ISO 400, F/5.6 should be OK

3. Now switch the flash to TTL and you get a very underexposed picture

The gentleman told me he has never heard of this issue before, but obviuosly there is something. He suggests compensating for the overexposure, until hopefully Canon releases a firmware update.

In the second store I spend some value time with the guy in charge of accepting cameras for repairs to be sent to the manifcaturer. He denied any prior knowledge of the issue too. In his opinion the TTL is supposed to work only with the flash pointing directly at the subject, so the bounce should be expected to fail. He could not explain why this used to work with the old (XSi) body.

I tried to get some info from other photographers using the Canon system, but seems like the case of overpowering the existing light with the flash is not that common and when it is done it usually involves manual flash mode and softboxes. The TTL is used predominantly for fill flash.

This concludes my investigation - there will be no new Canon equipment in my camera bag. Unless I read somewhere that 80D magically fixed the issue, but I will not be holding my breath.

Re: 70D bounce flash

TCampbell — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 01:38:27 GMT

I have "read" of the issue with the 580EX II on a 5D III body, but I've loaned out my 580EX II to a friend ... a somewhat extended loan since I don't use it since getting the 600EX-RT units.

However the flash should (and normally will) always fire as a key light when flash exposure compensation is zero. If you want fill, you can cut FEC to -1 (or whatever your preference).

The person at the camera store who thought E-TTL shoudl only work when flash is pointed directly at subject is probably not aware of how the E-TTL system works.

With E-TTL (really E-TTL II these days) system, the flash and camera work together to identify the correct flash power. The camera meters the scene using evaluative metering -- but does nothing with the data other than saves it. The camera then triggers the flash at pre-flash power (by default it's 1/32nd power but you can change that default). As the flash fires, the camera meters the whole scene again. It compares the first evaluative metering to the second. It's trying to determine how much of a difference that 1/32nd power made and uses this to decide how much more (or perhaps less) it should use when the shutter is open.

Suppose there's a mirror in the background. On that particular zone (where the reflection shows up in a mirror) the difference will be enormous compared to all other zones. The camera is able to determine that this isn't true -- it's an anomaly -- and ignores it.

Likewise, suppose there's a lamp in the photo... in which case the lampshade emitting it's own light and the flash wont make much difference. The camera can detect that this is an anomaly as well and factor it out.

Old thyristor flash systems would have been fooled by those two cases -- but not E-TTL. This causes the E-TTL system to be a little smarter than previous systems.

There is one more factor... if (and only if) the flash is on camera and pointed straight ahead, then the camera knows it can use the lens focus distance to set flash power (since the flash has a known guide number). If the flash is not on camera then it has no idea how much closer or farther the flash is vs. the lens focus distance so it wont take lens focus distance under consideration for flash power. Likewise if the flash is on camera but is not pointed directly ahead then it has no idea how far away your bounce surface is located... nor how reflective it is. Consequently it is also forced to ignore lens focus distance.

But if flash is on camera and straight ahead then it CAN use lens focus distance. A 430EX II has a guide number of 43 meters (about 141'). If the lens focus distance is, say, 15', it's a very easy math equation to determine how much power to use on the flash (it also has to factor in focal ratio) to get a correct exposure.

If I understand you correctly, that's the only time it works correctly. This implies to me that it is correctly using math to work the flash power when it can rely on lens focus distance, but when it is forced to rely on metering alone it gets it wrong (does it matter *which* flash model is used? Because the meter seems to work correctly when there's no flash involved at all.)

The meter lives up in the viewfinder -- which is why if your eye is not looking through the finder (blocking nearly all light from entering via the viewfinder) then it is plausible that it would get a false reading from the extra light entering through the finder, resulting in the camera and flash underexposing the shot. It is, of course, trivial to just block the viewfinder and rule out that possibility.

Years ago, GM had a service complaint about a customer who had a car which "hated vanilla ice cream". This was baffling. The customer would stop on his way home from work to pick up ice cream at a local ice cream parlor that made their own ice cream. If the customer bought vanilla, the car wouldn't start when he returned to the car. If he bought a different flavor, the car started. A bizarre case. GM sent engineers to evaluate because this one really had them stumped.

Turns out the car had a vapor lock problem and the ice cream store had quarts and half gallons of vanilla ice cream flavor (and only vanilla) prepacked and available in the freezers at the customer counter. If the customer wanted any other flavor, an employee would have to hand-pack the ice-cream container and this took more time. The "more time" was just enough for the car to cool to the point that the vapor lock was no longer a problem.

So while wierd things do happen, there's often a rational explanation... the trick is trying to figure out why it happens. If Canon says light is entering through the viewfinder (a reasonable guess) it's easy to rule it out by blocking the viewfinder from any stray light.

Canon does claim their 70D is compatible with their current line of speedlites -- so it *should* work and there may indeed be a firmware problem.

Re: 70D bounce flash

Tim — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:57:39 GMT

Hello socal13,

There have been several answers, tests, suggestions and the like represented in this thread. Even you yourself seem to have found a work around that maybe works for your needs. That being said, this is not a known issue within Canon regarding the EOS 70D.

If you feel as though your camera would benefit from the expertise of a service technician, it's urged that you set up a service evaluation with Canon. That can be done through our web site, linked here. Often times issues can only be truly understood under factory conditions, as there we could ascertain the true cause of this issue, if there is a malfunction with your particular camera.

Re: 70D bounce flash

bobn4burton — Fri, 20 Jun 2014 04:45:31 GMT

@Tim wrote:
Hello socal13,

There have been several answers, tests, suggestions and the like represented in this thread. Even you yourself seem to have found a work around that maybe works for your needs. That being said, this is not a known issue within Canon regarding the EOS 70D.

If you feel as though your camera would benefit from the expertise of a service technician, it's urged that you set up a service evaluation with Canon. That can be done through our web site, linked here. Often times issues can only be truly understood under factory conditions, as there we could ascertain the true cause of this issue, if there is a malfunction with your particular camera.

First, thanks for responding.

Although your response is horribly depressing 😞

This SHOULD be a known issue with Canon. There are many many people that have confirmed the problem. It's not hard to replicate. So basically there is probably no hope for a firmware fix for this problem...

Using my 70D indoors with bounced flash is pretty much useless for candid shots... I guess I'll be looking to sale this camera to replace with something else. Too bad because other than this issue, I've loved the camera.

Re: 70D bounce flash

dg — Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:26:38 GMT

@Tim wrote:
Hello socal13,

There have been several answers, tests, suggestions and the like represented in this thread. Even you yourself seem to have found a work around that maybe works for your needs. That being said, this is not a known issue within Canon regarding the EOS 70D.

If you feel as though your camera would benefit from the expertise of a service technician, it's urged that you set up a service evaluation with Canon. That can be done through our web site, linked here. Often times issues can only be truly understood under factory conditions, as there we could ascertain the true cause of this issue, if there is a malfunction with your particular camera.

Obviously it depends on your definition for "known issue within Canon" - I have an open support ticket with Canon Canada and I was informed that my ticket was discussed with Canon USA. In my ticket I did refer to this thread, which is on Canon USA web site. I spend several hours just talking to Canon support. I spend hours writing about it on this forum. You, TIM, seem to be working for Canon USA yourself.

What should we do in order to make this issue "known within Canon"?

I cannot send you the 70D body since I already returned both of them to the store. May be someone else will. I have personally reproduced the issue with 4 different 70D bodies in Toronto - 2 that I bought and returned to FutureShop, now I am just testing them in the store. Out of all experiments that I did only one, at the Exposure Expo organized by Henry's, I got something that looked like a good exposure, using the camera body and lens that the Canon personal provided (it worked with all flashes, including mine, but did not work with my lens). I have checked and the firmware of the camera is the same for all cameras that I tested. But it was in the Henry's store a couple of days ago that the store guy did the testing and he was able to reproduce my findings.

I don't believe you need to see the actual body, since the issue happens with any 70D body that I can get my hands on. And since people as seening the same behaviour with 5D Mark III it seems clear that this is the new normal, it is not a defect.

By the way, my Nikon buddies, who were laughing at me for all the troubles I went through the last months with this issue, confirmed (I saw the pictures) that Bounce flash still works as a main/key light in D600. That is the solution for me.

Re: 70D bounce flash

70Downer — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 22:06:37 GMT

@bobn4burton wrote:
@Tim wrote:
Hello socal13,

There have been several answers, tests, suggestions and the like represented in this thread. Even you yourself seem to have found a work around that maybe works for your needs. That being said, this is not a known issue within Canon regarding the EOS 70D.

If you feel as though your camera would benefit from the expertise of a service technician, it's urged that you set up a service evaluation with Canon. That can be done through our web site, linked here. Often times issues can only be truly understood under factory conditions, as there we could ascertain the true cause of this issue, if there is a malfunction with your particular camera.
First, thanks for responding.

Although your response is horribly depressing 😞

This SHOULD be a known issue with Canon. There are many many people that have confirmed the problem. It's not hard to replicate. So basically there is probably no hope for a firmware fix for this problem...

Using my 70D indoors with bounced flash is pretty much useless for candid shots... I guess I'll be looking to sale this camera to replace with something else. Too bad because other than this issue, I've loved the camera.

That thud sound you hear is canon burrying its head in the sand. "Nope no problems down here with focus or flash."

They dont need a customer copy to repeat this. Grab just about any 70D laying around canon repair. stick a canon flash on the top and use it in bounce. It underexposes mine does the same thing. I generally run manual flash so its not such a big deal, but it should still work right for the people that use it in ettl mode.

It's either

1. A Canon delvopment issue, not testing it when they designed the firmware.

2. It was designed to under expose and only act as a fill light for what ever bad reason.

3. Its just another defect in 70D's

It doesnt really matter which of the 3 it is. If they would just pick one and own it.

Re: 70D bounce flash

one — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 23:26:04 GMT

Hello Tim,

Like the others who replied on your post, I don't understand why this is not a known issue.

I really enjoyed my previous 600D en 650D, thinking that the 70D would be even better with the dual pixel technology. As some things did improve, the first pictures I took indoors I was thinking "I must be doing something wrong". But when I used my brothers 700D taking the same pictures in the same condition I almost returned the camera. After reading more about this issue, I knew this must be a software bug. And as I did not have my 650D anymore I did not returned the camera.

As I take most of my pictures indoors, I never had to think about flash compensation or FEL with my 600D/650D. Now I have to compensate up to 3 stops and the worst part is a lot more pictures need post correcting hurting the quality.

And again, I don't understand why this is not a known issue as this is really easy to reproduce comparing it with a 700D and the 18-135 STM lens.Until this issue is resolved, I cannot recommend the 70D to anyone.