topic Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 01:19:45 GMT

I've been considering both cameras and leaning more towards the 70d for two reasons, one it's a newer model and two is lighter. Weight is an issue for me. But having said that if the 7d is a far better camera I may need to find a way to deal with the weight... thus looking for input on which one is 'better' - i'd primarily be using it for taking pictures of children (which are usually moving - and also portraits - of children - mostly of my daughter who is young and not big on posing). 70% of the pictures are taken in doors in not so great light - low light - typical living room with no added lighting. I primarily use my new 24-70mm f2.4 lens (since recently purchasing can't justify putting anything else on my current camera: T1i).

From what i've read i don't see a significant difference between the 70d and 7d but have read that the 70d is better for movies - but that will not be what i primarily use it for as a video camera that i like. Not to say i won't forget it or be without and want to use the camera to capture something - just not something i see doing very often. I just read that some that have the 70d are having problems with recording - not clear if its a card issue or camera issue?

the 70d seems to work more like my T1i so maybe a larger learning curve if i get the 7d? the one thing i noticed was that the 70d had 5-6 buttons on top close together for settings which were a bit awkward to reach and feel which was which - on the other had the 7d had very few so wondering which is easier to use or quicker to change settings on? I primarily shoot in Av or Tv but want to move to M so the easier the transition the better.

Price wise the 70d is about $100 more than the 7d - i'm looking for the body only. I want to buy locally so my options are limited. Likely have to get from the local Future Shop...

One more thing - i'm reading that the 70d will not do Spot AF? is the true? i'm confused by this - what does it really mean?

any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

TCampbell — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:07:19 GMT

The 70D is significantly better for video due to it's much better focus system when using live-view.

Both cameras have the 19 point AF system with all cross-type points and the 70D definitely does allow you to do single point AF (and select which point is used) -- the focus modes are basically teh same.

"Spot AF" isn't really the right term (there's a "Spot metering" mode but that's not the same thing.) When you use the camera normally (looking through the viewfinder rather than using "live view" mode), the camera uses it's phase-detect auto-focus system (both of these cameras just happen to have the same 19-point AF configuration -- not all cameras would but these two happen to be the same.) You have some choices... you can (a) let the camera use any and all of the 19 points and it will decide which one to use. The camera will always picks the point which has the closest focusing distance. E.g. if there's a person in the foreground and some plants in the background, the camera is going to use the points on the person because the person is closer. But this gets tricky because sometimes you're in close and want to lock focus on the person's eyes, but their nose is closer. So you get a tack-sharp nose and slightly soft focus on the eyes. For this reason, the cameras will let you override the focus point selection.

Most cameras only let you choose between auto-select (all points active) or single point (but these cameras do more). In "Single point AF" the camera will only use one of the points. You can control which point it uses (you can pick any point you want). If you're framing up your subject so they are more to one side of the frame then you'd pick a point over in that area. Pick a point near their eyes if you want to make sure it focus on their eyes, etc.

These cameras also allow "zone" AF. A "zone" is sort of like allowing the camera to auto-select... except rather than using all 19 points, you constrain it to a group of points in a specific area. There are 5 areas... middle, top, bottom, right, and left.

The 7D was optimized for "action" photography and has long been recognized for having one of the faster frame rates when shooting in "continuous" mode (where you hold the shutter button and it just keeps firing away). The 7D can shoot 8 frames per second. Most cameras are several frames per second slower but the 70D is actually pretty close... it shoots 7 frames per second.

Also keep in mind that since the 70D is a brand new model (and the 7D has been on the market several years now), the 70D has a few new features that only the latest cameras have... such as WiFi and it can be remotely controlled by a smartphone (iOS or Android smartphones.)

The 70D, being a mid-level camera, lays out it's controls more like a pro body (and so does the 7D). Your T1i did not have a top LCD. Both 7D and 70D do and several instant-access buttons let you change settings that are commonly adjusted without needing to use menu.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 17:30:12 GMT

thanks Tim! my understanding is that the 7D has Spot AF - what i mean by that is that it actually has the option to focus on far less pixels than if using Single Point Af - the 70D does not have that option.... i've read that bird photographers insist on this feature but i don't photograph birds - mostly my daughter who is always moving and i want perfectly focused eyes so was thinking that the Spot Af would be somethign i will regret not having if i get the 70D? also the 7d had Af Expansion - so if for example my daughter is in the frame and moving, running, jumping i can expand the focus spot to cover her entire face or upper body, the 70d does not have that option.... ;(

so torn between a newer camera with some improvements over what i think may be better focused shots? is that the case, will the 7d take far better focused shots???

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

TCampbell — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 18:22:27 GMT

Ok, now I know what you're asking about. Yes it's true... the 7D has it and the 70D does not.

My 5D III has the same feature. The idea is that it uses an extra small area for focus selection. It helps to have a focus point with high detail/contrast.

Here's an example: Suppose you want to take a portrait with a shallow depth of field and you want focus on your subject's eye. Since eye's are in eye-sockets and the the eyebrows cheeks and even nose are closer, you want to make sure the focus is actually ONLY on the eye and nothing else - you don't want focus to be off by so much as 1 centimeter. For this, you can set "spot" AF mode which uses an extra-tiny focus point and this should be able to lock focus on the detail of someone's iris and ignore everything else around.

The 7D also supports AF area expension. It's sort of the opposite... it uses focus assist points to increase the focus point (rather than making it smaller). It's for situations where you want single point AF, but your subject may not have particularly high contrast or detail, so you're willing to expand the AF area a bit to bring more detail in.

Keep in mind that these are special cases. You should only enable these cases because you understand the difference and when each case offers an advanatage based on your current condtiions. Don't put a 7D into the spot mode and leave it there because in most situations it will not be the best. It's used when distracting objects are at different focused distances and you want to make sure the camera picks up on just what you want and ignores everything else -- AND your subject of interest has enough detail and contrast that the camera will have no problem focusing on it (hence it does not need a normal sized focus area to lock focus.)

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 18:27:54 GMT

Thanks again Tim! that is exactly what i was refering to! and yes i can see why it would be important to ensure you only use spot Af when you really want/need it. the thing i'm struggling with is IF that one feature (primarliy the Spot AF) that the 7d has outweighs the slightly newer 70D??? i'm really obsessed with pictures of my duaghter being sharp and definately want her eye(s) to be sharp - but will the spot Af on the 7d make a considerable difference over the single point on the 70d? or will i likely not notice the difference?

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:07:31 GMT

Okay so if i do not intend to use the camera for video - ie my primary need/want is a good still shot camera is one better than the other? or should i say, is one a better choice over the other?

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Yorptunes — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:29:21 GMT

I have both. The replies above really explain the difference well. I will use my 70D more than I will use the 7D. I am getting old and the incredible auto focus using live helps me out more than looking through the viewfinder. However, if I am going to photograph fast moving objects I will use the 7D coupled with my Canon 70-200 1:2.8. My eyesight is such I have no idea how good my shots are until I get home and put them up on my 42 inch monitor. The live focus helps me make sure my pictures of people, still objects and scenery come out well focused.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Wed, 15 Jan 2014 19:32:59 GMT

Thought i had this figured out but then took some shots.... I'm now trying to decide between the 6D and the 70D - 7D is out of the picture 😉

I have both in my hands now... playing and comparing and i'm finding exactly what most others are saying... the 6D is giving me less noise in low light situations (which is what i want/like since most pics are in our living room with low light) and in most cases a sharper image if i use the middle/single AF point. and this applies more so to portraits or images of a specific item (an indoor plant, a face, a toy etc that is not moving or is able to pose ).... The 70D has more noise (which i do not like) but it seems to have better multi point focus or using any of the focus points other than the middle one... and landscape shots come out better (more sharp) using the 70D.

i've read that the 70D is better for sports and landscape becuase of the extra/new AF points, and 6D for low light and portraits so i've basically foung the same thing... based purely on that description i'd pick the 6D... HOWEVER ... since my daughter will not stay still is that really a portrait shot or a sports shot?

So wondering :

1) what others think may be the best fit? I do not need/want a video camera, i want the one that will give me the best stills of a moving child and has low noise! and a secondary need would be food photograpy, general family pics, and in the future some sports and plays etc....

2) As i write this all out i'm realizing something which is my secondary question.... When i take pictures of my daughter i'm usually about 4 feet from her, i use Aperture Priority and set to f/2.8 or up to 4 (because i want her eyes to be sharp and the background blurred). I'm really struggling because as i said before she can not stay still so i point, focus, and before i take the shot she moves slightly and because the Aperture is set to f/2.8 - 4 her eye is no longer in focus (perfectly) because of the slight movement. Any sugggestions on how to take a similar shot with a similar result with a child that moves slightly?

Thank you in advance!!!

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

diverhank — Wed, 15 Jan 2014 20:38:24 GMT

Maria,

For a kid who's running around, either the 6D and 70D will do very well. The 70D has an edge if you are going to capture birds in flight and sports. Since portraits for your daughter is important, you can't beat the 6D.

For your question # 2, what you want is to use Manual (M). Set Tv to something like 1/250 or faster, Av to 2.8 or 4. Either you set ISO yourself or set ISO to Auto. With ISO set to Auto, M is not really manual as far as exposure go because the camera will automatically set the ISO. What you still get is total control of speed and aperture.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

TCampbell — Wed, 15 Jan 2014 21:57:38 GMT

Landscape photography actually does not require a fast focusing system... the camera isn't going anywhere... the landscape isn't going anywhere (let's hope). When shooting landscapes, you generally want a broad depth of field -- and f-stop of f/16 might be used... and likely at least f/11.

In landscape photography, a lens is sometimes focused to a point known as the "hyperfocal distance". I probably shouldn't get into that hear because it's a bit off-topic based on your question. But the main point is that this focused distance is not necessarily even on any particular object in the scene at all. In other words... the auto-focus system on the camera is not necessarily particularly significant since you may not even be using auto-focus.

As for children sitting still... all cameras will perform if there is plenty of light. The 6D is particularly adept at being able to lock focus even in fairly poor lighting conditions (most cameras want more light to be able to lock focus.) This means in low light situations (e.g. in your living room... in school plays... etc.) the 6D will be able to lock focus in situations where the 70D cannot. (not that the 70D has a poor focus system... if there is a LOT of light, the 70D will beat the 6D. But when there is not much light available, the 6D will actually beat the 70D.)

But there is one other aspect of the focus system which you may not be aware of.

On both cameras (the 70D and 6D), the camera has a few focus modes. There's a mode called "One Shot" mode (and this is the default mode). There's another mode called "AI Servo" mode. There's a third mode called "AI Focus" mode which is special ... it's sort of a hybrid mode. Here's how they work.

In "One Shot" mode, when you activate focus (typically by half-pressing the shutter), the camera will try to lock focus on something. Once it does lock focus, the camera is ready to capture the image AND (this is the important bit)... the focus system switches off. This means that if either you or your subject move (if anything changes focus distance) then the camera will NOT refocus (neither the 70D nor the 6D). Also... if you fully press the shutter button, the camera WILL NOT FIRE unless it can confirm that it has managed to lock focus (this assumes auto-focus is enabled.. if you turn it off it will fire). This behavior is known as "Focus Priority" and it goes hand-in-hand with "One Shot" focus (when you use "one shot" you have "Focus Priority" enabled.)

In "AI Servo" mode, when you activate focus, the camera begins focusing on your subject AND... CONTINUES to focus on your subject EVEN if the focus distance to your subject is changing. This is the mode you would use for "action" photography or for children who don't sit still. BUT... there is another behavior difference in this mode. If you fully press the shutter button in this mode, the camera WILL take the shot... whether it was able to lock focus or not. This behavior is known as "Release Priority". "AI Servo" and "Release Priority" go hand-in-hand... when you enable AI Servo... you get Release Priority behavior. This means when photographing action, you do want to take enough time to half-press and confirm that the camera has indeed locked focus and is tracking your subject before you fully-press the button.

The third mode is "AI Focus" and is a bit of a hybrid mode. This mode essentially auto-decides which of the two focus modes to use. When you activate focus on your camera (e.g. by half-pressing the shutter), it focuses the subject and then continues to track the subject at least for a few brief moments in order to try to detect if the subject is actually moving. If the subject is NOT moving... then it takes on the behavior of One Shot mode. If the subject IS moving (focus distance is changing) then it takes on the behavior of AI Servo mode.

You might wonder why not just leave it in AI Focus mode all the time... and the answer is because there is a bit of a delay while the camera works out which mode is best. In photography, often times the shot is about capturing that "decisive moment" ... that fraction of a second when your child had just the right expression, etc. When you see that happen and you press the shutter to capture the shot, you dont want the camera to think about which mode to use for the next half-second because by the time it fires you'll have missed the moment.

You might also wonder why not just leave it in AI Servo mode all the time. It turns out AI Servo is actually EXPECTING movement. You're not supposed to use it on things that aren't moving. It has a "predictive" behavior in that it tries to determine if the subject is moving toward you or away from you ... and how quickly. This makes it easier to predict where it should adjust focus to in the next moment. As it does these little micro-guesses, it can actually throw focus OFF for a subject that was not moving at all.

Canon actually recommends you use "One Shot" mode when you KNOW your subject distance isn't changing... and they recommend "AI Servo" mode when you KNOW your subject is changing. If you have no idea what to expect, you can use AI Focus mode... just be aware that there is that slight delay while the computer works out which mode is best.

That was a bit much... but here's the point...

If you were testing both cameras on their default mode of "One Shot" and your child was moving... then of course the camera would not track that movement and you'd see some missed focus on the shots. The camera has to be in the right mode to evaluate it's performance.

Canon does make camera bodies that have both an incredible focus system AND outstanding performance in low light... but they aren't cheap.

The 6D will have a better ability to use a narrower depth of field for a deliberately blurred background.

The depth of field is always the same for a given focal length lens and f-stop combination. BUT... a crop-sensor body (such as the 70D) has a narrower angle of view when using the same focal length and f-stop. That means in order to get the same framing and composition on a shot, you'd have to back away using the 70D. When you do that and re-focus on your subject (which is now farther away), the depth of field increases and the extent of the blur in the background decreases.

I actually suspect that the 6D is likely going to give you an edge based on the description of what you want to do.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 18:23:13 GMT

Thank you to you both for the responses and input! Very much appreciate the time folks are taking to help me figure this out 😉 and learn a lot along the way!

Since my daugher is usually just sitting somewhere and fidgity or acting out minor scense with her toys (vs acuatlly moving - ie walking, running playing socker or playing hockey etc) i use Single Shot. But i know definately understand the other modes better - thanks for the detail!

The part that i'm hung up on is that she moves ... but when i say that i mean she looks at me, i'm using Single Shot, press the shutter down half way, camera locks focus and then she moves before i press it all the way... she moves maybe 1/2 an inch...by turning her head slightly or smilling more or less etc... i would have thought that since the DOF allows for an inch or less (roughly 60mm, 3 feet way, using a f/2.8 or 4 - based on a calculator i found online) - her eye that i had focused on should still be in focus??? No?? i guess i'm confusing DOF and focus???

If she is only moving an inch or less would you consider using AI Servo or AI Focus? would it still work well with and f/2.8-3.2 and give me that nice sharp image with lots of bokeh in the back (if i'm shooting from 3-4 feet from her and using maybe something like 50-60mm zoom, and 1/250)?

Also, sounds like a child moving around is different than a bird in flight 😉 and bird in flight might fit better with the 70D and the fidgitty child the 6D??? is that a good representation? or would you still consider the 70D over the 6D for the 'fidgity' child? is the 6D more than capable of that sort of movement?

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

diverhank — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 19:26:27 GMT

Maria,

When I take portraits the way you describe, I don't use AI Servo or the other in between mode because I don't think it's accurate enough, especially if using f/1.8. Having said that I haven't tried so I wouldn't know. You may still get much better results not using the single shot mode for a fidgeting child. You might want to experiment and compare.

Once you set the Tv to a high enough value to eliminate movement blurs, you just need to focus and take the shot quickly before your daughter moves - and take many to get a few keepers. Sometimes the kind of precise focus that you are looking for is not appropriate for a fidgeting child...when she's fidgeting, set Av to f/5.6 instead of 2.8 or 1.8.

The reason I mentioned the 70D may have an edge for Birds in Flight (BIF) is that it has more focus points so it can better track the moving birds (moving several yards across from you) in AI Servo mode. For a fidgeting child that moves several inches, I can't see if either camera will have any advantage, focus-wise. In this scenario, the 6D has an edge because of the sensor size (full-frame) so theoretically at least, your image will have less noise and better Depth of Field (see TCampbell's post).

Also in your focusing method (which is the default), I can see another possibility for blurred pictures...the default method of re-focusing every time you press the shutter button can throw focus off as I think you already have observed. Say you had the left eye in focus then she moved half an inch as you press the shutter button, the camera would refocus , now the focus was on her nose or worse on the couch behind her. There are three ways I know of combating this. One is the focus lock button (you can program either the * or the Focus button to do this). So you press the button and lock the focus. Two you keep the shutter half-depressed the whole time so it doesn't refocus. Three you program the camera not to focus when the shutter is depressed. You use the focus button to focus instead. I chose option 3 so once I focus, it doesn't change until I command it to change by pressing the focus button.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

TCampbell — Thu, 16 Jan 2014 20:52:48 GMT

Small movements aren't an issue unless you are close distances using a very low focal ratio (low f-stop value).

When you focus the camera, it turns out there is actually a "range" of distances at which your subjects will appear to be acceptably focused. That zone or range of distances at which things will appear to be acceptably focused is referred to as the "Depth of Field". We sometimes abbreviate it as DoF when talking about it online.

For example... if you are using a full-frame camera body such as the 6D and you are using a 50mm lens at f/4 (I'm just picking these as an example) and your subject is 10 feet away, THEN you have a "DoF" of about 3'.

Specifically in that example, everything from 8' 9" to 11' 8" will appear to have acceptably sharp focus. Anything closer will be appear to be just slightly blurry... anything a lot closer will appear to be very blurry. The same is true going farther way... something 12 or 13' away will appear to be slightly blurry... something perhaps 20' away will appear to be very blurry.

The size of the field where subjects are nicely focused depends on three things:

1) The focal length of the lens -- short focal lengths (wide angle lenses) have a VERY generous depth of field. I have a Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II. The depth of field at a 14mm focal length is so generous -- that lens practically doesn't need a focus ring (of course it has one... but if I focus it for about 3 to 4' away, the whole world will appear to be acceptably focused.)

2) The focal ratio (f-stop) value being used. Very low numbers create a shallow depth of field. Very high numbers create a very broad and generous depth of field. Of course those high numbers also allow less light through the lens so the exposure time gets longer.

3) The distance to the subject. At very close focusing distances, the depth of field becomes narrow. In fact when I use a macro lens, the depth of field is so thin that it's just a few millimeters thick. This is a case where just a tiny bit of movement would put something out of focus. But when subjects are farther away, the depth of field naturally grows to a very generous size.

If you combine all those factors... to the "narrow" extreme, then a "long" focal length lens with a very low focal ratio at very close focusing distances (such as what happens when I use my 100mm "macro" lens at it's lowest focal ratio and closest focusing distance) you end up with a "paper thin" depth of field. But if you go the other way... to the "broad" extreme, then a wide angle lens with a high focal ratio and distant objects is so very generous with the depth of field that you practically don't need to focus the camera at all.

You can read articles and watch videos to learn more about how depth of field works. Here's a link to one such site: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

Suppose you have Canon's EF 50mm f/1.2L lens (which is a fairly expensive high-end lens... but an f/1.2 focal ratio is VERY low) and you were taking a portrait of your child specifically at f/1.2. Suppose the child is 3'6" away. At that distance, using that focal length and f-stop, the depth of field is literally just 1/10th of a foot. Barely over an inch wide. At such distances your childs eye's might be in focus, but their nose and ears would most certainly be quite blurred. If you back away by merely 6" but change no other settings, the depth of field grows to just about 2". At 5' it grows to about 3". So you can see how increased distance improves the depth of field. If you back off the f-stop to f/4 it will grow to about 8".

I'm giving some examples to show that with some settings, a small amount of movement on the part of your child will not affect the focused result... but other settings will be very sensitive to a relatively small amount of movement.

Once upon a time, lenses had marks on the focus ring which showed the depth of field at various focal ratios. Some prime lenses still have these marks on them. Most modern zoom lenses do not have the depth of field marks (push-pull zooms sometimes do -- but few modern lenses use push-pull zooms.)

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:38:31 GMT

THANK YOU both again! 😉 really appreciate the information!

Re Camera: Today is the last to decide about the camera (need to return one of the two tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest). From your comments (unless i'm missunderstanding) doesn't sound like i will go wrong with the 6D. That for my purpsose (fidgiting child, usually sitting or walking, in my living room) the 6D is the better choice. BUT if i start taking more shots outside or in better light the 70D may be a better idea .... does that sum it up correcty?

Re Lenses/DOF/Focus: I primarily am using my Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II for all the shots - when not i've been testing out the 24-105 f/4L that came as the kit lens with the 6D. Even though i use the Single Shot and center focus point (i always push the shutter down half way to lock focus then recompose and don't lift my finger until i have taken the shot - so as far as i know it should be refocusing) i have been trying to 'expand' by using one of the other focus points (the one closest to where the eye is) to avoid changes in distance that will imapact the focus at close distances. I've found that when using the 24-70 at about 60mm at 1/125 and f/3.2 if i use any of focus points other than the center one on the 6D the shot is not as sharp as the 70D. ;( I've read the 70D has 'better' focus points (center one still suggested to be better on the 6D).. so how do i find that balance of when to use center one vs the others? ....

Tim - have read all the information you posted - and i think i understand it all 😉 thank you for spending the time to explain! when i look at my 24-70 lens and i do the caluculations (online of course) to see the DOF at the distances i use (usually 3-4 feet from my daughter) i should have about an inch of room - so i would think that if i've focused on her eye even if she moves (but only less than an inch) at least part of her eye should still be within that plane and in focus? No? i know it's not scientific and difficult to be sure how much EXACTLY she moves, left, right, up, down etc, but theoretically some part of her eye should be in focus if she did not move all of it more than an inch - correct?

Learning a lot!

But still not sure about which camera ;( those darn focus points are worrying me...

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

TCampbell — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 15:53:35 GMT

Years ago there was no need to do calculations for depth of field because most manual focus lenses had depth of field marks on the lens. Today, some prime lenses still have the marks, but they are almost never seen on zoom lenses anymore (it really needs to be a lens with a push/pull zoom).

I've attached a photo of my original Canon AE-1 35mm SLR (this was the first real camera that I ever owned... I think I got this in 1977 and it still works great!)

On this camera, the f-stop / aperture ring is actually on the lens (it's the ring closest to the body.) Noticed it's currently dialed in to "22" (f/22). But notice just above that, there is a scale with a center mark and numbers going up both left and right of the center mark. The outermost marks are "22". If you look at the focus ring (just above that scale), this means everything from the "22" on the left to the "22" on the right will be in focus. The "22" on the right is at infinity. The 22 on the left is roughly around 6'. This means that with this 50mm lens currently "focused" to just about 11', everything from about 6' to infinity will be in focus (btw, this lens just happens to be focused to the "hyper focal distance" -- but that's another subject.)

You can also see by looking at the scale that the inner-most marks (the "4"s just left and right of center line) would have a rather narrow depth of field ... that looks like it might be from about 10' to about 13'. While this lens does go down to f/1.8, they don't bother to etch those marks -- but you can well imagine it would be extremely narrow.

If you give yourself a few exercises (commonly you would line up a lot of identical objects (bottles, cans, dominos, etc.) go to one end of the row, "focus" on the center object, and experiment by shooting with both very low focal ratios and very high focal ratios and compare the results.

Use low focal ratios (f/2.8, f/4) when you want selective focus and want to deliberately blur the background. You high focal ratios (f/11, f/16) when you want to maximize what you have in focus (e.g. landscape shots). When everything is roughly the same distance from the camera, use the middle focal ratios (f/5.6, f/8) because most lenses tend to deliver their sharpest results when those middle focal ratios are used.

While most of my lenses offer me f/2.8 or better, I seldom shoot at f/2.8 -- usually I'm up around f/4. Here's an example:

This image was shot using my 5D II (full-frame -- like the 6D), using the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro lens -- but the lens is at f/4 for this shot.

Notice the asparagus tip at the near edge of the plate... look carefully and you'll see it's a bit out of focus (but slightly behind that everything is quite sharp. Now notice the asparagus at the far side of the plate and you can see that's also just out of focus. The "hero" (that's the term for the main subject in food photography -- this happens to be perch with a dill cream sauce) is sharp all the way from front to back. Had I used f/2.8 it would not have been completely in focus all the way through.

Also... I wanted the background to be blurred, but only slightly. I wanted to make sure that the background elements in this photo were blurred... but recognizable for what they are. They provide a nice compliment to the food.

While you might be tempted to crank open to to f/2.8 when photographing a subject in low light... keep that depth of field in mind. Sometimes wide-open is not your best option.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

diverhank — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:11:25 GMT

@Maria wrote:
THANK YOU both again! 😉 really appreciate the information!

Re Camera: Today is the last to decide about the camera (need to return one of the two tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest). From your comments (unless i'm missunderstanding) doesn't sound like i will go wrong with the 6D. That for my purpsose (fidgiting child, usually sitting or walking, in my living room) the 6D is the better choice. BUT if i start taking more shots outside or in better light the 70D may be a better idea .... does that sum it up correcty?

Maria,

Not quite what I mean to say...the 6D, with a larger sensor, should be better in all light conditions. Not counting video, the 70D only has an edge if you do a lot of sports and BIF shooting that needs:

1. faster frame rate

2. better AI Servo type focusing

3. More reach - the cropped 70D gives you 1.6 advantage in reach than the 6D - for the same focal length, say 70mm, the 6D shows you an image at 70mm view while the 70D shows you an image magnified 1.6 times as 112mm.

So, imho, 70D is a better idea if you shoot sports and BIF...anything else you are better off with a 6D.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 17:14:19 GMT

Love that picture Tim! Makes me hungry and understand things better. My first real camera was an A-1. Sold it years ago - wish I had kept it.

One thing re the 'sport' comment - would you consider a figity, moving child in the 'sport' category?

I love the ISO range on the 6d but when using the shutter button feels soft to me - meaning I feel a tiny delay in taking the shot. Something I'm sure I can get used to but different. Also seeing the benefits of all the extra focus points on the 70d - I used to always use centre, focus and recompose but about 6 months ago started using all the other focus points.

About 4 hours left to make a decision. Now leaning towards the 70d - just wish it did better on low light . I've been avoiding using a flash but that may be silly of me.

Would love any further thoughts feedback and especially the 'sport' = child piece 😉

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

TCampbell — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 17:28:25 GMT

I would consider a child playing outside (i.e. running around) to be in the "sport" category. Indoors, I'd probably shoot One-Shot mode and allow for a depth of field to deal with the modest changes in distance. (i.e. being basically in one place... but squirming around a lot.)

I've heard of this "mushy" shutter button. I have a friend who recently bought a 6D but I have yet to get my hands on one. I'll have to go bug him and find out what this shutter button is all about. Every other Canon DSLR I've used has a shutter button that feels about the same as all the rest -- so it surprises me that Canon would change something that's worked so well.

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:10:58 GMT

Thanks Tim! I keeping back and forth between the two cameras. I don't think I'll do badly with either. I just went for a walk (very grey day here) and walked around with each camera to see which felt better in my hands, talking shots etc. although I love that the 6d is full frame and has better ISO range the 70d felt better (in my smaller hands). So was set on the 6d but now think it may be the 70d. Yes I'm VERY indecisive 😉

One more thing re the child being like 'sport', would that mean I'd need to shoot on AI SERVO and continuous shots (of the moving figity child) or can I use One Shot and continuous? ie does it ever make sense to use that last combination together?

Re: 70d vs. 7d - which to get? does anyone have both? which do you prefer and why?

Maria — Sun, 19 Jan 2014 00:58:32 GMT

Decision made! I am going with the 6d. Returned the 70d. I was sold in the 70d earlier today but I know I'd always regret not having the ISO range the 6d offers.... Now to learn to use it to it's full potential - and mine!

Thank you VERY much for all the input!!! I really appreciate it! It was extremely valuable and helpful!!

Now to get my daughter to 'freeze' for portrait type shots 😉 I'm thinking a game of sorts may help. Then in the next couple yrs if she does get into sports or I can't get her to stop fidgeting I can always sell the 6d and get a used 70d or whatever else is out there then 😉

Again, thank you!