topic Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8 in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Tue, 28 May 2019 18:13:05 GMT

I use Adobe color space for my 5D Mark 4 which uses a file name with an initial underscore. However I am finding that on some of my folders the majority of my files will be correctly labeled with an underscore but then a lesser number of them will randomly instead have an 8 starting off the name of the file. I contacted Canon technical support and they have never heard of this issue.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

BurnUnit — Wed, 29 May 2019 13:55:11 GMT

Does the same issue occur on more than one memory card? Have the memory cards been formatted in the camera? Does the EXIF info for the affected images in fact show them being saved in the Adobe color space, or do you see any other strange changes in the EXIF data between the different file naming structures?

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

TTMartin — Wed, 29 May 2019 14:33:56 GMT

@Zbadger wrote:
I use Adobe color space for my 5D Mark 4 which uses a file name with an initial underscore. However I am finding that on some of my folders the majority of my files will be correctly labeled with an underscore but then a lesser number of them will randomly instead have an 8 starting off the name of the file. I contacted Canon technical support and they have never heard of this issue.

The underscore in the filename indicates you are using a different colorspace. i.e. AdobeRBG

Did you set a different colorspace that got saved in one of your Custom Settings (C1, C2, C3)

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Wed, 29 May 2019 14:41:47 GMT

Thank you for your reply!!!

Yes - it has happened with 2 separate CF cards - the most recent with a 128GB card.

Yes - the cards were formatted in the camera.

IF by EXIF you mean Details under Properties, under those .jpgs correctly listed with an initial underscore, the Image Color Representations states "Uncalibrated" .................whereas the images that start with an initial 8 in the file name, the Image Color Representations state sRGB.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Tim — Fri, 31 May 2019 03:35:33 GMT

Hello Zbadger,

We are sorry to hear that this issue persists. We would need to evaluate this unit at Canon at your earliest convenience.

You may fill out an online repair request form at the following link to setup your repair using our online service.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/service-repair

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Fri, 31 May 2019 03:49:40 GMT

Are you saying that there might be something wrong with this camera as this has happened on and off during at least the past year - as shown in pictures May 2018 also. And if htere was something defective with the camera, will I be charged for it? You will see there is no damage to the caera whatsoever.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Tim — Fri, 31 May 2019 05:36:56 GMT

Hello Zbadger,

It's hard to say at this point, there very well could be. We would need staff on hand at the FSC to evaluate your unit. If you are within the initial one year period since purchase, we recommend sending a copy of the receipt so we can process the warranty.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Waddizzle — Fri, 31 May 2019 10:33:18 GMT

Are any of the misnamed files HDR captures?

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

TTMartin — Fri, 31 May 2019 11:56:05 GMT

@Zbadger wrote:
Thank you for your reply!!!

Yes - it has happened with 2 separate CF cards - the most recent with a 128GB card.

Yes - the cards were formatted in the camera.

IF by EXIF you mean Details under Properties, under those .jpgs correctly listed with an initial underscore, the Image Color Representations states "Uncalibrated" .................whereas the images that start with an initial 8 in the file name, the Image Color Representations state sRGB.

If one of your Custom settings (C1, C2, C3) has sRGB colorspace saved in it this would explain it.

Also as metioned by Waddizzle any factory preset modes like HDR are likely to use the default sRGB colorspace.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Fri, 31 May 2019 12:25:29 GMT

My HDR images are Adobe RGB images, but I just checked my first C1 setting and sure enough, a photo I took had an sRGB image taken. However, I have not been using C1 when these occasional images with an 8 prefix have showed up.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Waddizzle — Fri, 31 May 2019 23:52:19 GMT

@Zbadger wrote:
My HDR images are Adobe RGB images, but I just checked my first C1 setting and sure enough, a photo I took had an sRGB image taken. However, I have not been using C1 when these occasional images with an 8 prefix have showed up.

I am pretty sure that the 5D4 saves HDR images as JPEGs.

I have never heard of an “Adobe RGB image” JPEG file before.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

RobertTheFat — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 03:33:32 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@Zbadger wrote:
My HDR images are Adobe RGB images, but I just checked my first C1 setting and sure enough, a photo I took had an sRGB image taken. However, I have not been using C1 when these occasional images with an 8 prefix have showed up.
I am pretty sure that the 5D4 saves HDR images as JPEGs.

I have never heard of an “Adobe RGB image” JPEG file before.

Any JPEG has a color gamut associated with it; and on (I believe) any reasonably high-end Canon camera, that can be either sRGB or Adobe RGB. And any decent photo editor can produce either one in a RAW-to-JPEG conversion. Some (most?) commercial-grade printers must be able to read the gamut setting from the Exif data, because if I ask my favorite print shop which they prefer, they always tell me it doesn't matter.

Or am I misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Waddizzle — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:29:57 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
@Zbadger wrote:
My HDR images are Adobe RGB images, but I just checked my first C1 setting and sure enough, a photo I took had an sRGB image taken. However, I have not been using C1 when these occasional images with an 8 prefix have showed up.
I am pretty sure that the 5D4 saves HDR images as JPEGs.

[ deleted ]

I have never heard of an “Adobe RGB image” JPEG file before.
Any JPEG has a color gamut associated with it; and on (I believe) any reasonably high-end Canon camera, that can be either sRGB or Adobe RGB. And any decent photo editor can produce either one in a RAW-to-JPEG conversion. Some (most?) commercial-grade printers must be able to read the gamut setting from the Exif data, because if I ask my favorite print shop which they prefer, they always tell me it doesn't matter.

Or am I misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?

Maybe I misunderstood what was being said. I thought he was saying the HDR images are saved as RAW files.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 15:08:38 GMT

I think you need to go through the entire thread. There is a switch in the name convention in some of my pictures from _ to 8 as the prefix. The .jpg ones with the _ (which are the vast majority) ahow "Uncalibrated" when looking at Properties and then at "Color Representation". However , the ones that are labelled "8" show "sRGB". Thus, I am getting photos upon download not in chronological order - a bunch of intermittent "8's" at the end of each folder.

Canon suggest there might be something wrong with the camera???

But another contributor TT Martin wrote:

"If one of your Custom settings (C1, C2, C3) has sRGB colorspace saved in it this would explain it."

I responded " ...... I just checked my first C1 setting and sure enough, a photo I took had an sRGB image taken. However, I have not been using C1 when these occasional images with an 8 prefix have showed up."

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 15:33:21 GMT

I did post a reply but hope it did not come off as unappreciative or snarky. The thread has gone in so many directions. Thanks for your comments. PS - what I read is the prefix _ is indicative of Adobe RGB and the prefix 8 is indicative of SRGB.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

ebiggs1 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 16:42:21 GMT

"...what I read is the prefix _ is indicative of Adobe RGB and the prefix 8 is indicative of SRGB."

Bingo!

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 17:02:21 GMT

Yes - so does anyone know how my camera could be spitting out 2 different prefixs and therefore 2 different color presentations? When I go to the actual files on my screen on the camera, most show Adobe RGB, but for example, one of them with the 8 prefix shows the color represntation to be sRGB. So these 2 differences have been recorded on the compact flash card. This is thus before download to my desktop.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

TTMartin — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 17:49:06 GMT

@Zbadger wrote:
Yes - so does anyone know how my camera could be spitting out 2 different prefixs and therefore 2 different color presentations? When I go to the actual files on my screen on the camera, most show Adobe RGB, but for example, one of them with the 8 prefix shows the color represntation to be sRGB. So these 2 differences have been recorded on the compact flash card. This is thus before download to my desktop.

Yes, as mentioned it could be saved in one of your Custom settings (C1, C2, etc.), it would use sRGB if you ever use the Automatic Green Square Mode, and possibly other built in automatic functions like automatic HDR. Until you can correlate what your camera settings were when you didn't get Adobe RGB it is hard to tell. There is a 99.99999% chance there is nothing wrong with your camera.

Why are you using Adobe RGB? You know unless you can ensure Adobe RGB is being used throughout the process (i.e. computer, monitor, printer, etc.) it is likely to introduce color errors. And in the end Adobe RGB will be lost when viewed by anyone else without specialized equipment.

Some excerts from the fStoppers article AdobeRGB vs. sRGB, by Zach Sutton, February 17, 2013

'sRGB came first, and almost everything on a computer is built around sRGB. The internet, video games, applications, personal devices, and most everything else has adapted sRGB as their standard for color space. Even the monitor you’re using likely cannot display all the colors of AdobeRGB. That's right, most traditional computer monitors can only display about 97% of the sRGB color space, and only about 76% of the AdobeRGB color space. Even screen calibrators will often tell you how much of the color gamut you're able to display.'

'Since most web browsers have adapted sRGB as its color space, if you upload an image to the internet with the AdobeRGB gamut, the browser will convert it to sRGB, and it’ll do a terrible job at it, '

'Printers, have began adapting the AdobeRGB color space. This allows for more vibrant colors in your prints, with better color consistency that your own monitor cannot even replicate. But do you want your prints to look differently than they do on your monitor? I say yes, as it provides richer colors that bring out details that would otherwise go unseen.'

Note this is NOT an article against using Adobe RGB, in fact in his conclusion he states he uses Adobe RGB, but, specifically because he mostly shoots for making prints.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

Zbadger — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 19:42:30 GMT

I ws using either P, M or HDR with +-1 stop. Not the custom functions. So there is the quandry. How can that be explained?

Yes - most of my photos are seen electronically but I want Adobe RGB for those that I print for the wall.

Re: Prefix file name underscore versus 8

ebiggs1 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 20:18:19 GMT

"There is a 99.99999% chance there is nothing wrong with your camera."

Also he is correct about AdobeRGB. If you aren't printing on a real photo printer, not just one that prints color, it helps nothing.

I am not sure it ever hurts anything but you are not getting any benefit from using it over sRGB.