topic Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D) in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 05:41:49 GMT

Hello, i have an Canon 80D, and i am experiencing some kind of problem, it is related to the sharpness resulting on photos compared to the sharpness in liveview image...
(i already read some old posts here about this issue, and i still think that i have not found the answer and/or the solution to my problem yet).

The problem: It started when i was trying to shoot the moon with manual focus, i noticed that it is incredibly sharp in liveview (i can really see astonashing details with my 70-200L II IS USM+Extensor 2x III, set on 400mm), but when i take the picture all that detail is lost, i mean something like 10~20% less detail, i shoot in raw 24mp(6000x4000), and i know that the LCD of the camera can't display a RAW format while in liveview and it does no have high resolution, but still with all these limitations it still has more detail in the image compared to the RAW file that i see on my computer, even with maximum sharpness applied in camera raw from photoshop it still can't achive the sam level of detail i see on the liveview. No i do not use noise reduction, i use ISO 100, sturdy tripod, shutter speed 400~250, apperture i used several to test sharpness varying from 5.6 to 13(for the moon), and it does not occur only with the moon, it occurs with any case even with other lenses i tested with my 100mm macro and with my 18-135 IS, the same problem still happens, i tried shooting a torn paper and focusing the tiny little fibers on the paper against a black background, and in the liveview i can totaly see the fibers but when i shoot and check the image it has not the same level of detail that i peviously saw in liveview.

I've read that the Liveview mode applies some sharpening, but i can assure you, it is not only the sharpenning that it suposedly applies, it is more than that, couse i even if i increase the sharpness in the resulting RAW image it does not come close to the Liveview preview.

There is more, this problem did also happened with my old 7D that is now broken (using the same lenses)...

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

kvbarkley — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 13:08:37 GMT

use your phone to take a picture of the liveview screen.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

wq9nsc — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 13:12:36 GMT

If you haven't already tried the RAW converter in DPP, try it and make sure that you move the NR reduction sliders to zero because depending upon your setup it will automatically apply some NR. Use the sharpness slider and see what you get in DPP.

Rodger

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

kvbarkley — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 13:46:38 GMT

Actually, my flippant coment has a serious side, you should send us a screenshot of the live view screen and the resulting picture so that we can compare the two.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:28:45 GMT

Hey kvbarkley, i have tried it with the Canon APP coneted wih wi-fi with my phone that has a resoution of 1080 x 1920, and then o compared it to the RAW file, there is one problem though, the phone don't register the 10x magnification, when i put on the camera 10x magnfication the phone get stucked on te 5x even if th camera i on 10x (i tried some configurations but there isn't many onthe APP), but even in this situation i can still see more sharpness/deail in the phone screen, but in the camera LCD is way sharper when it is on 10x manifcation... and aother thing, there is only one portion of the entire screen that is used for the liveview, so the effective amount of pixes is 1080x720

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:03:45 GMT

Hello wq9nsc, iam sure that he NR is reduced to zero, my picture profile is neutral, and i don't have DDP yet, but i am downloading it, and i will try that conversion through this software instead of the Photoshop Camera RAW... thank you, lets see...

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

Waddizzle — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:53:50 GMT

Check the resolution of the image files you are viewing

What about camera shake? Just using a robust tripod is not enough. Do not raise the center column, if you can avoid it. Whenever I shoot the Moon I use Mirror Lockup and the shutter delay timer.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:15:21 GMT

I used the remote control from computer to shoot when the tripod was totaly still no movement at all, no air currents inside my room, The settigs: Canon 80D + 70-200 L IS USM + Extensor III ( IS turned OFF ) shutter 0.8, ISO 100, apperture 8.0

This image is from the Liveview, camera connected to my computer... (no editing on this one...) (PNG.)

This one is the photo that was taken using RAW format (Unsharp:strentgh +7 and fineness +7 with Digital Photo Professional) (PNG.)

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

wq9nsc — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:27:35 GMT

The RAW image you posted shows definite chrominance and luminance noise reduction compared to the PNG image which has far more "noise grain" and obvious chrominance noise.

See what the DPP converted RAW looks like with no NR applied, I suspect it will look like your Live View image.

Rodger

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:05:00 GMT

Hi there wq9nsc, thank you for the help!
So, i am sure that there is no NR setting on my camera, it is all OFF
i tried everything on DPP, and i still can't find a way to improve the level of detail seen on the liveview mage omped to the raw photo...

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:05:45 GMT

HEY HEY HEY Waddizzle! I found the solution, you wee right! It is the Mirro Lock UP LOOOL! wtf i forgot to test that thank ou so much

Jut for the curiosity i will post the final result here (iso 100, mirror lock up, apperture 8.0, shutter speed 0.8, no edditing, no sharpenss applied) RAW to JPEG.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 01:49:50 GMT

Hey guys, i still have the problem with the moon, for the paper it worked, but the mirror lock up is not working for the moon... the live view is way sharper still than my photo even with the mirror locked up... I will try to use a notebook and tak apicture of the liveview with the moon and the resultng photo ( maybe tomorrow )

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

Waddizzle — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:15:19 GMT

The Moon’s current phase is at 90% Wanning Gibbous, which is almost Full.

A full Moon lacks shadows, so it looks like flat mat. A half Moon casts shadows in its’ craters.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 21:22:00 GMT

This was shot few days ago... what you guys think? I've seen better resoults more sharper than this with 400mm lenses, even i had better results with my 7D in the past ( don't know how )... I've taken many pictures this day, this was the best of all of them....

ISO 160, apperture 8.0, shutter speed 1/250 - 80D + 70-200L 2.8 II + Extenso = 400mm

This one was taken usign my 7D, it is an HDR image (i don't remember the settings i used for the 3 images merged, unfortunaly, i don't remember even the HDR settings, i never had better results than this with the 70-200 + extensor 2x) I just wanted to post this to compare... (this image was dstroyed by facebook jpeg format i don't have the original anymore couse it was lost with my old hard drive)

I know that HDR can improve some details if you make it right, but this comparasion you can see that i have taken much more details with 7D than with the 80D... (even though the 7D had a better result, the same problema i am talking about in this post happens with the 7D (which is the liveview being more sharper then the resulting image)

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 02:50:02 GMT

I am currently testing this problem with saturn, the rings are incredibly crisp, i can totaly see them very sharp, even a shadow of the rings on the planet (i think), i have tested with jupiter too, i can see like 3 stripes and a little white spot, but whe i take the picture it is all blury...

I will make a simulaton of what i have saw in the screen the best i can make and the best i remember and show the result compared with the actual photo

iso 800, apperture 7.1, shutter 640

and this is the liewview simulation photoshoped to look like what i've saw

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

Johnw1 — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:43:36 GMT

Those shots of the moon are outstanding. Both are great considering the degree of difficulty. Perhaps when using live view and actually taking a shot the atmosphere has incressed in turbulance to a degree that impacts the crispness of the shots?

I also think an equatorial mount should be used.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

Waddizzle — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 14:34:01 GMT

@LVBC90 wrote:
Hey guys, i still have the problem with the moon, for the paper it worked, but the mirror lock up is not working for the moon... the live view is way sharper still than my photo even with the mirror locked up... I will try to use a notebook and tak apicture of the liveview with the moon and the resultng photo ( maybe tomorrow )

Your posted images are highly cropped: 915 x 873; 908 x 845. You will not see “sharp” details if you zoom in on one. My image was shot using a 7D2 and a Sigma 150-600 “C” lens, at 600mm.

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:17:08 GMT

Johnw1, i was thinkin that it s probably the atmosphere, and it is in part, but this also happens with objets that are 1.5~20 meters of distance meanng the atmosphere interference is like 0%... but you are right indeed the atmosphere does some wavy like patterns, when i compare one picture of the moon to aonother, some small craters gets distorted, but the bluryness is comin fromsomewhere else (maybe the problem with my camera)

I have a friend that also has an 80D, i will test my lenses with his camera an try shooting saturn, jupier, the moon and other scenes to check this problem once and for all...

Re: Liveview image sharper than photo (80D & 7D)

LVBC90 — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:21:09 GMT

Waddizzle, i understan the croppin does interfere with the resolution when you try to look at it in a not native resolution (zoomed)... but in the liveview mode i am already zoomed at 10x so my way of making the comprasion is not so wrong, but i understand you, thanks