topic Re: LP-E6N longevity in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

LP-E6N longevity

ChrisPBacon — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 22:19:16 GMT

Most manufacturers of devices made that utilize lithium/lithium-ion batteries suggest that batteries remain in their charger for longevity, or to leave the device plugged into an AC source.

What about Canon’s LP-E6N? Should I leave them in the charger, or once charged remove them and put them in my kit?

I’ve asked Canon Professional Services this question and usually get “uhhhhh...” for an answer.

What’s your recommendation?

Re: LP-E6N longevity

CaliforniaDream — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 23:37:33 GMT

I have LP-E6N's as old as 5 years and they are all still serviceable. I charge them up, then write in my notebook when they were charged (I have 7 of them so I want to keep track). I then use them in the order charged (each has their serial number on the bottom). I have one battery (not the oldest) that seems not to reach full charge when the charger indicates 100% as it is not good for as many "clicks" as the others, but it is still about 90%. Mine don't sit unused for longer than about 2-3 weeks and then they are used in a camera till they are at least 50% discharged. So far I have been very happy with the service life.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

ChrisPBacon — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 01:01:30 GMT

Thanks for the reply.

I’ve been rotating mine by date of purchase. Haven’t noticed any decrease in life yet, but I’m trying to find out what is optimum.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

wq9nsc — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 13:07:54 GMT

Lithium Ion batteries don't like being stored fully charged or fully discharged.

I tend to shoot a lot of images with my Canon DSLR bodies and in my experience about 3 years of battery life is about it for me before they are degraded too far. I keep 3 in rotation for each body and for the most part they are not being stored unused for any period of time. I will typically run them down to around 25% capacity and then recharge them but they don't sit around unused for any period of time.

The biggest maintenance action to maximize LiOn battery life is not to store them for a long period of time either fully charged or fully discharged because either will significantly reduce service life. If you plan to leave one sitting for a long period of time, either charge or discharge to around 50% as appropriate and then if it is not being used for months periodically check the battery level and bring it up to around 50% charge before storing it. Note that different battery technologies have different needs so if you are using older gear with NiCad packs the use and maintenance is very different.

I would not store LiOn batteries either in their charger or in the device for an extended period of time. it will reduce battery service life and keep in mind that if something goes wrong these batteries can source extremely high current for a short period of time which is the reason why this type of battery (NOT specifically Canon camera batteries) have been responsible for a number of fires so you don't want a device failure causing a battery fire or a battery failure to cook the device and that includes a charger that malfunctions while you are away. LiOn batteries that are about the same size/weight as larger DSLR batteries are used in car "jump" packs and can provide over 300 amps of peak current to start the car.

These batteries are quite safe when used properly but never forget the amount of power they can produce and USE those protective terminal covers when the battery isn't in the camera or charger. They both protect the contacts and act as a safety device to prevent the battery from being shorted by an external item. The connectors are designed to be safe but the covers are needed when not in use. An electrician who should have known better suffered significant burns when he put an unprotected battery pack in his pocket and some loose strands of wire created a short between fairly well protected terminals. Back when NiCad batteries were still the norm, a police officer was signifcantly but not fatally injured when he put loose ammunition and a spare battery for his communications radio in his uniform pocket and when the shell shorted across the battery terminals it cooked off the explosive charge. Incidents like these are reasons why terminals are designed to not easily be shorted in normal use. Companies are making these products more fool-proof but society continues to produce more advanced fools 🙂

Rodger

Re: LP-E6N longevity

albertj358 — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 12:49:31 GMT

Given the number of notebook computer and tablet (with lithium batteries) fires caused by leaving the charger plugged in, I would only charge lithium batteries when I am present to keep an eye on the charger.

Not long before I retired from an IT position several years ago, one of the iPads we had assigned to a manager caught fire in his home, and nearly burned his house down. They had left the iPad on an ottoman with the charger plugged in, and then went out. The ottoman kept the fire from spreading further, but it was destroyed, and the livingroom had heavy smoke damage.

I've seen photos of other such fires, and will never leave a battery in a charger now if I'm not here to keep an eye on it.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

wq9nsc — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 13:56:13 GMT

Excellent point Albert!

An iPad battery is of fairly small/low capacity compared to a lot of the LiOn batteries we use so imagine what a big battery pack can do when something goes wrong-or you don't have to imagine but just take a look at the videos of some EV fires that are difficult to put out and keep out after their very large battery systems catch on fire.

LiOn packs are the most power dense of any readily available rechargeable battery system and the separator between individual cells in the pack is very thin and easily compromised and one way to do this is via overcharging which can happen if the charger fails. When this separator is breached, a fire is the likely result.

I suspect the Canon system charger included with our DSLR bodies is built far better (higher reliability plus better fail-safe features) than a lot of aftermarket systems but even so I wouldn't leave the pack charging when I wasn't around. It is also a good idea not to store all of your packs together because if one fails and starts to burn it will spread to the others.

This isn't meant to scare you away from using packs because millions of them are in use every day and a lot of them are abused in ways they should not be but still survive. I have them in test equipment, power tools, smart devices, and of course still and video cameras and don't worry about them creating an inferno. But having done many years of risk management consulting I like to manage easily controllable risks and the risk from leaving unattended battery packs on charge is a risk that is easily managed at no real cost. And car chargers are some of the worst with many of them having only the bare minimum of circuitry to charge a pack with no real safety features to protect things in case of failure. One of these that caused a vehicle fire depended upon the user to disconnect the charger before the battery became overcharged and its only protective system was relying upon the car fuse that fed the lighter/accessory plug socket. Charging a lithium pack in a hot environment is a very bad idea and you don't want to store them there either; cars quickly become ovens in hot weather.

Even when there are applicable regulatory safety standards they are often not enforced in the world of online retailing where gray market imports and counterfeit items are as common as the genuine market focused products in some product categories. This is another reason to be careful buying very low cost replacement battery packs instead of OEM; they may be OK or they may be more prone to catastrophic failure than the more expensive OEM packs. There is no doubt that Canon makes a decent margin on replacement battery packs but that cost differential over third party items isn't all profit-some of it is component and build quality.

Rodger

Re: LP-E6N longevity

felixjoy — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 04:07:29 GMT

I like these batteries. I purchased six of them. The cost, particularly, was a help when I unexpectedly needed to buy an overrated, $90 Canon-marked battery from a neighborhood camera shop when I lost my unparalleled production line 60D battery on a paid shoot one day.

Yet, they've picked up a notoriety among my group. On a long shoot, we're continually moving LP-E6 batteries on-and-off the chargers and dispersing them to three distinct shooters. When I get "hit with a Wasabi" I murmur in a little measure of irritation, since they're not as tough or as exact (at life expectation) as my pricier Canons. All things considered, we more often than not pre-charge a pack of Wasabis and hurl them in a Ziploc named 'charged' before a shoot, and let the Canon batteries, which hold up much better, do the rounds on the charger.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

digiquisitive — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 04:12:14 GMT

I went through 3 LP-E6N batteries today before I found one that had kept its charge in the couple of months these had not been used (were just sitting in camera bag with bottom plate on, allegedly fully charged, but all of them fully discharged). Also the top "cap/lid" on one of my batteries has come loose on one side, and Canon has no answer about whether or not these are repairable by them. Anyone else have an issue with an LP-E6N top coming unglued from the bottom on one side? Of course, I am not using it, not charging it, not trying to repair it myself. Thanks

Re: LP-E6N longevity

RobertTheFat — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:04:24 GMT

@digiquisitive wrote:
I went through 3 LP-E6N batteries today before I found one that had kept its charge in the couple of months these had not been used (were just sitting in camera bag with bottom plate on, allegedly fully charged, but all of them fully discharged). Also the top "cap/lid" on one of my batteries has come loose on one side, and Canon has no answer about whether or not these are repairable by them. Anyone else have an issue with an LP-E6N top coming unglued from the bottom on one side? Of course, I am not using it, not charging it, not trying to repair it myself. Thanks

I don't know how much this contributes to the discussion, which I haven't really been following. But yesterday I had occasion to pull out my wife's 7D2 and was annoyed to discover that although the camera was turned off, its LP-E6N was flat out dead. (Which reminds me: I'd better go take it off the charger.)

Re: LP-E6N longevity

wq9nsc — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:43:11 GMT

Bob,

Lithium Ion batteries will self-discharge but at a slower rate than many other battery technologies so they will "hold" a charge for a long time. But even with the power turned off, there is some minuscule current draw from the battery pack by the camera body because the on/off switch is a command rather than an absolute physical switch that interrupts power; note how the camera will finish tasks with the power switch off and will show signs of activity when a battery pack is installed with the switch off. Some very low level circuitry in the camera is kept alive and this is no different than the behavior of the battery supply in a modern auto or keyless entry fob which is always in a very low power mode when not actively working

For absolute best life of batteries, store them outside the camera with a moderate charge (neither fully charged nor completely discharged). ALWAYS put the safety cover on unused batteries, these batteries can source an amazing level of short term current and will easily start a fire if the output is shorted. Avoid going directly from just completed full charge to heavy use in the camera (i.e. video) because they are already hot from the charger and the additional heat from high current discharge will cause further internal heating thus reducing battery life. Don't leave batteries sitting in a hot car and never charge batteries that are still hot from heavy use. Don't charge them in a location with high ambient temperature. Avoid severe physical shocks, Li-ion are extremely power dense and use very thin separators between cells in the battery which is what can get electric vehicle manufacturers in trouble with battery fires if QC isn't perfect; with smaller packs damage can result in a fire from internal shorts but usually just damage that kills the pack. Although not nearly as expensive as camera body and lenses, batteries don't like being dropped either. If you are really worried about fire risk, don't store all of your Li-ion batteries together because if one cooks off it will ignite the others but the odds of a battery fire from a camera pack just being stored is very low.

With multiple batteries, rotate them to equalize use because they also degrade somewhat over time even without regular usage. I don't do anything extreme to promote maximum battery life and look at them as a consumable that needs to be replaced on a regular basis as performance drops below acceptable level. Camera batteries very rarely experience sudden fatal failure but since my 1DX and 1DX 2 can both use LP-E19 batteries I standardize on those and keep one fully charged spare with me when out shooting.

In general, go with the OEM batteries for replacement. Yes, you pay a premium for the Canon name but there is also a quality component that is more important to Canon than it is to third party names that generally come and go like the wind. The same contract manufacturer in China that turns out extremely good quality for one contract may supply utter garbage for another contract based upon contract terms and the level of QC demanded by the client; if you want good quality as a manufacturer it costs you and the customer.

Rodger

Re: LP-E6N longevity

digiquisitive — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:39:22 GMT

Thanks. I think it provides corroboration that these expensive little guys (I have 6 of them, all branded official Canon batteries, all made in China) can be problematic if we don't maintain some kind of means to ensure we check their status periodically to ensure they are still "healthy" , able to take a charge, able to retain a charge, and are, indeed, charged when we need to rely on them. Thanks for substantiation. The other items in this thread give a lot of important info on this topic. DQ

Re: LP-E6N longevity

PaulSoebekti — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:58:19 GMT

This from Canon Europe:

https://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/batteries/battery_types.do

Paul

Re: LP-E6N longevity

digiquisitive — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 02:06:36 GMT

Thanks to all. This afternoon saw a visit by a beautiful hummingbird. I fetched my 7D2 with 300 4/fL IS and 1.4x, turned the body on, and (wait for it!) nothing happened. Turns out that this battery was also totally discharged without my being aware of it -- as was the battery in my other 7D2. That makes 5 out of 6 LP-E6N batteries that were depleted (three in active camera bodies) at one time. Is it time for Canon to question the quality of this cell, and perhaps consider a recall or at least credit toward a new, improved version of this battery? The original LP-E6 that came with my 7D (not MkII) does not seem to have this problem.

Issue#2: we are told not to store fully-charged batteries. Does this mean we need to remove the battery from the charger as soon as the 75% winking light comes on, instead of letting it run a bit longer? What is a bit longer? If this is so important, why do the Canon chargers not have a percent charge meter on them other than just the blinking winking lights. Canon could then come out with a sensible recommendation that batteries should be charged until they are 89.65% "full, " or some such. Why tell us not to charge them fully without telling us how to quantify and measure that?

Re: LP-E6N longevity

img — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 18:25:25 GMT

Lithium based cells storage is optimal on 20% charge which means 7.4 volts on a two cells 7.2 volts pack, like the LP-E6 [N]. Professional chargers / dischargers (Like IMAX B6AC - beware of it's clones!) have "storage mode" which discharges / charges the cells to 7.4 volts (depends on the level of the actually held charge). 7.4 volts indicates 50% battery level in my 5D3, 55% battery level in my 5D4 - you can correlate to that.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

wq9nsc — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 19:01:43 GMT

digiquisitive,

Those use/storage requirements are for those who want to absolutely optimize battery life however lithium ion batteries hold up well under a wide profile of usage and storage as they must since the majority of consumers aren't going to provide a high level of battery care. Other than rotating through the battery packs for my 1DX and 1DX 2, I don't do anything special with them however my cameras rarely sit very long between events. But I have a number of power tools witth lithium ion batteries and the usage and charge of those is very irregular. Two weeks ago I went through a couple of dozen complete charge discharge cycles with the four battery packs for my Bosch drill and Bosch impact driver while building a large outdoor kennel and doing final installation work on a diesel standby generator but prior to that they sat for several months in an unknown (probably fully charged state).

It sounds like the 7D2 itself has some significant parasitic current draw whenever a battery is mounted in it and this is probably the reason your battery packs are dead after a few days or weeks of sitting in a camera. Many modern electronic products are like this with "vampire" current draw and in many cases power switches no longer disconnect the battery or power source but just command the internal controller into a standby or low power mode; this is done for convenience of allowing functionality and also avoids having a switch contact that has to carry high current and causes power loss in the process. A lot of modern cars are no different and if I am not planning to drive my 2016 Corvette for more than a week it goes on a battery maintainer to keep its battery in good health because the remote sensing and alarm systems are still active.

And make sure to store batteries with the proper cap in place instead of some other material. A friend bought a bunch of replacement lithium coin cells in bulk and wrapped each cell up in foam to protect it until it was needed. Unfortunately the handy foam he had saved and used for this application was conductive foam used to protect semiconductors from static discharge until they are installed and it nicely discharged all of his spare batteries.

Rodger

Re: LP-E6N longevity

iris — Mon, 24 Aug 2020 13:09:22 GMT

I also rotate my batteries and frequently check their viability in camera under the yellow menu called Batttery INfo...I register my batteries in camera so as to keep track of those losing viability .....

Question...on the back of the LP-E6N battery is a little silver colored rectangular square with 6 numbers in it: I have surmised that the numbers there represent the date the battery was produced?

Can anyone verify that???

Re: LP-E6N longevity

Peter — Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:08:02 GMT

@iris wrote:
I also rotate my batteries and frequently check their viability in camera under the yellow menu called Batttery INfo...I register my batteries in camera so as to keep track of those losing viability .....

Question...on the back of the LP-E6N battery is a little silver colored rectangular square with 6 numbers in it: I have surmised that the numbers there represent the date the battery was produced?

Can anyone verify that???

製造日期 is written to the left of the six numbers, so yes, you are right. On some batteries only Korean hangul are written but I have never studied the Korean language.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

iris — Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:31:31 GMT

If it is true that the numbers on the backs of those batteries represent the date produced is a photgrapher on solid ground when he insists that those numbers be within on or two yers of the date he buys them? Or since those batteries are each now close to 70 dollars in price would one be out of bounds to REQuesT they be batteries made within the YEAR of purchase?

Re: LP-E6N longevity

Peter — Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:22:11 GMT

Stored correctly (not fully charged) you will not loose much if the battery is one or two years old.

Re: LP-E6N longevity

iris — Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:39:17 GMT

It seems to me that one's minimum expectation for the age of their new 70 dollar canon battery upon purchase should be no more than 12 to 18 months!! Selling batteries that have been on the shelf two years or more is unconsionable...