topic need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

bobbob2 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 08:48:12 GMT

Hi.

I've been using the 70d with the 100-400ii+1.4tciii for bird photography for some time now and I'm ready to move to a new body. The 70d is great for what it is but it does not AF at f8. I've been shooting manual for almost a year, with some excellent results, but without a prism in the viewfinder, getting perfect focus is a question of luck more than skill, especially with subjects as unforgiving as birds. There is a certain comfort in knowing that any focus issues are entirely my own fault rather than gear related, but I'm ready to move on.

The 7dmk2 seems to ideal candidate for a new body but the 80d seems a worthy competitor, especially at f8. It's also cheaper but that's not the determining factor. I've been reading up on the subject and it seems that on paper the 7d2 is better for my purposes. However, I would really appreciate some input from people who have compared both bodies with the mentioned lens setup for birds.

There is a thread going over this question over at Fredmiranda but I'm not sure what to make of it. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1488551/0

Additionally, rumours of the 7dmk3 and 90d coming out are holding me back. I'm not entirely sure what's going on with the 2019 releases? Should I wait? It would be at least another year until the release, get stock delivered and fix teething problems, if any, of the new models.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

ebiggs1 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 15:48:14 GMT

IMHO, I would always go for the best built camera so I would always choose the 7D Mk II over an 80D. However, the 80D is a great camera just not coming from a 70D, to me. Not that it isn't a nice upgrade which it is. I just prefer the more professional camera over the intermediate ones.

That said I might suggest a different approach. A new, or let's say different lens. You can't use your 70D because of the tel-con. Not because it's a old camera. Take a look at the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2. No tel-con needed! As you might tell I am not a fan of extenders. I prefer native FL.

"... rumours of the 7dmk3 and 90d coming out are holding me back"

There will always be newer and more fantasticer cameras coming out. How many pictures, memories, are you missing out on by not getting it today instead of waiting? If it serves your purpose today go buy it today and start enjoying it today. There may never be a 7D Mk III. Probably will but you never know and you waited and waited !!!!!!!!!!

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

ebiggs1 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 15:00:34 GMT

I forgot to mention, the 7D Mk II and the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 would make a super birder combo.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

Waddizzle — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 15:27:38 GMT

The 7D2 has more magnesium alloy in its’ body chassis than the 80D, but both are sealed against dust and moisture.

The combination of the lens and extender will cause the 7D2 to be reduced to just one f/8 focus point. The AF will become noticeably slower and a little sluggish, too. I have never used the 80D with that combo, but I have used the 6D2 with it, which shares the same AF system with the 80D.

The 6D2 will have 27 f/8 AF points, arranged in three rows of 9 points. There is no noticeable degradation in AF speed when you enable all of the AF points. I would be surprised if the 80D did not have similar performance.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

cicopo — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 15:32:05 GMT

Can't help re any of the xxD series because I stopped buying them after owning the 40D. I have been a member at FM for many years so looked at who was giving advice as well as whet they had to say & I really only recognize 4 of the members & 2 suggest the 7D2 & I fully respect their advice. It's not an answer to your question but Arbitrage & Imagemaster are both very skilled & super serious bird photographers.

On the lens side of the question I have just bought a well used 100-400 (ver 2) but don't own a 1.4 TC but have been shooting a Sigma 150-600 C for a few summers & it AF's very well on my 7D2 shooting R/C aircraft which in general are faster than BIF but also their path is more predictible than a birds.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

bobbob2 — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:54:50 GMT

I don't know how to quote replies so this is for ebiggs1

The more I read the more I'm convinced that the 7d is the right choice. Someone who used both would know better, but the general sentiment is for the 7d.

I understand where you are coming from in re to the tamron suggestion. However, I am happy with the 70d, save for that 5% of missed shots where something amazing is happening for 2-3 frames but my focus is off. I actually love manually focusing, it's a great connection to the gear and subject. If it was a question of lacking skill I would work hard to get better, but the modern DSLR OVF simply is not up to the task.

I can't justify getting the tamron rather than a new body. I am very happy with the lens and TC combo. I'm sure the tamron is a great lens but if I ever decide to seriously get a new lens it will be a big prime, 600 or 800mm.

I entirely agree with your philosophy regarding waiting. Well said. Life is short.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

bobbob2 — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:58:43 GMT

Waddizzle

I understand you were happy with the 6dmk2 and the 100-400 + TC. Did you get a chance to use a 7dmk2 alongside your 6dmk2 with the lens combo?

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

bobbob2 — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:00:12 GMT

cicopo

Thanks. I will go over again the FM thread and look at the users you mentioned.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

Waddizzle — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 17:17:59 GMT

@bobbob2 wrote:
Waddizzle

I understand you were happy with the 6dmk2 and the 100-400 + TC. Did you get a chance to use a 7dmk2 alongside your 6dmk2 with the lens combo?

Yes, I do. I used to have an 80D before I gave it my son, but never used the 100-400mm and TC on it. I use the 100-400mm far more than the 150-600mm. Which body I decide to use depends upon available light, and whether or not I might use the TC.

The 7D2 is a good match for the 100-400, but just not with the TC because it slows down the AF so much. The 6D2 does not seem to slow down much with the 100-400 w/1.4x, at all. I like to set Focus Priority to full Focus, which probably slows up the AF more than anything else. The only reason why I might carry the 1.4x III TC is when I want to carry two bodies on a hike.

I will put the 70-200 on the full frame 6D2, and the 100-400 on the crop sensor 7D2. Those combos fit inside of my bag with both lenses still mounted, with or without the TC. The cameras stand up with hoods reversed in a Lowepro Magnum 200 AW. My Lowepro Magnum 400AW can also fit a 150-600 standing up, but just not with a camera mounted.

I switch up using a Sigma 150-600 “C” with the 6D2, and the Canoon 100-400 II with the 7D2. I think I may get a higher keeper with the 7D2 and the 100-400mm, than the 150-600 with the 6D2. But, the higher keeper rate may be due to the slightly higher frame rate in the 7D2, and the faster focusing speed of the 100-400.

Between the 80D and 7D2, 7D2 is probably the better choice without the TC. The 7D2 will have an unfamiliar rear panel control layout. The 80D is nearly identical to the 70D. If you want to use the TC, then the 80D is probably the better choice.

I like the full frame 6D2 because it allows me use higher ISO values with faster shutter speeds or in low light situations. On cloudy days, indoor gyms, or Friday Night Lights, the 7D2 stays home. The 6D Series has the same layout as the #0D series.

When I crop the images, I think the IQ from the 100-400mm + TC is slightly better than the 150-600. But, using that lens combo means taking a one stop hit in exposure, compared to using the 150-600. The 7D2 is very good at capturing BIF. It is probably your best all around choice, but you will be disappointed with the performance with the TC, especially if you are like me and like to use Zone AF with AI Servo.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

Waddizzle — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 02:48:08 GMT

I checked to see if one of my favorite YouTube channels had anything about the 80D with a 1.4x III, and IT DID!!! I like Grant Atkinson’s videos. He seems to be one of the most genuine and knowledgeable reviewers out there.

https://youtu.be/Ir6kkSFS618

If you want to know how he does that neat little trick to display AF point selection on the LCD, this is how. Use the [INFO] button to select the settings screen that is similar to the Quick Menu displayed when you press the [Q} button. Next, press the [AF GRID] button in the top right corner of the rear panel.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

bobbob2 — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:45:18 GMT

Thanks, good video!

You are the only one that's suggesting the 80d over the 7dmk2 and it's not making my life any easier 🙂

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

Waddizzle — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 00:54:19 GMT

@bobbob2 wrote:
Thanks, good video!

You are the only one that's suggesting the 80d over the 7dmk2 and it's not making my life any easier 🙂

I do not feel that I am suggesting the 80D. I have already pointed out that the 7D2 is probably the better overall choice. I have simply been pointing out that if you want to use the 1.4x III with that lens, and make sure it is the “III” version, then the 7D2 could be a major disappointment.

In fact, it will be a disappointment. From time to time, I might swap out bodies with a lens when the batteries get low. Every so often I wind up putting the 7D2 on the 100-400 + 1.4x III. It will take a few minutes to figure out that there is nothing wrong with the camera. I just simply failed to notice the lens setup that I was using. #seniormoments

You might want to check out Part 1 of that two part series. It takes a lot of practice to track BIF with just a single focus point. Grant Atkinson does an excellent job of explaining the AF settings in the 80D. They are the same settings found in 7D2, and all of Canon’s current prosumer and professional bodies.

Atkinson spends some time to explain what settings professionals would use, and why. He takes the time to make recommendations on what settings could work best for someone new to wildlife shooting with a super telephoto lens, and why.

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

bobbob2 — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 06:58:46 GMT

I see, I misunderstood you. To clarify, are you saying that the 80d focuses better with the TC than the 7d, but the 7d is overall a better camera even with the TC, slower focus issues aside?

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

govindvkumar — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 07:44:38 GMT

I recommend you to wait for some time as canon would be releasing their much rumoured Canon 7D MArk iii body in the first quarter of 2019. I expect it to have better iso performance an faster auto focsing capabilities when copmared to the mark 2 version

Re: need a body for 100-400ii + 1.4TCiii. 7dmk2 or 80d or wait? Bird photography

Waddizzle — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 01:36:09 GMT

@bobbob2 wrote:
I see, I misunderstood you. To clarify, are you saying that the 80d focuses better with the TC than the 7d, but the 7d is overall a better camera even with the TC, slower focus issues aside?

Pretty much, yes. That is what I am saying. The 7D2 is the better camera, overall. But, the 80D will perform better when you are using a TC with a lens that creates a minimum aperture of f/8.