topic Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash... in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:36:48 GMT

Hello. I am new to the forum. Please forgive me if this was already addressed elsewhere.

I have a Cannon EOS Rebel T3. On the bottom of the camera is shows: "Cannon DS126291"

I have had the camera for several years and it has functioned wonderfully. I almost always use the "Full Auto" mode. The last two days I was on a Yardsale trip and in the middle of the trip, I noticed that the camera doesn't seem to be recognizing the light/dark situations and doesn't activate the flash. In situations where the scene is light enough to take a decent photo, and normally would not need a flash, the picture turns out completely dark. In scenes that would normally need a flash, it doesn't pop up.

Photos in bright sunlight come out, but are a bit dark. Photos in cloudy situations are visible but quite dark.

One funny thing. I have always used the smaller "tradtional" optical viewfinder mode and was using it as always the last two days. I find now that if I switch the camera over to the mode where the LCD screen now becomes your "viewfinder" the camera will take a picture that comes out OK and the flash even pops up. I then tried to switch back over the using the smaller optical viewfinder (leaving the flash up) to see if it would work, and again, no flash and a completely black picture.

I tried resetting the camera to factory settings in the menu going to "P" mode on the camera dial, going to the second "wrench" screen and going through the clear all settings procedure. Nothing changes. Same problems.

It WAS raining on the day this started but not heavily at all. I have gotten the camera much wetter in years past and never had any issues and don't think this is the problem here. Just wanted to mention it.

Can you help?

Thanks so much!

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 05:10:00 GMT

Also, if you need me to upload photos for you to evaluate, can you tell me how to do so? I don't see any form of "attachment" button in the reply space on on the controls.

Thanks.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:48:18 GMT

You can post photos in a reply box by clicking on the icon with the mountains and sun.

Heres your story:

1. camera worked fine

2. camera got went

3. now camera doesn't work fine

When you are using LiveView all focusing and exposure measurement is performed by the actual camera sensor.

I "regular" mode exposure control is measured by a sensor up in the prism area. Cameras with pop-up flash has a lot of opening in the prism area for flash hinge.

I think it sure seems like water had some effect.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:33:44 GMT

Like I said. It was only a thought. It really didn't get "wet" a couple of drops maybe but again, it's been in worse weather before and no troubles.

Is "live view" when you use the small optical viewfinder as opposed to using the LED screen?

Can you clarify where exactly the sensor is and what is the "prism area".

So if it was indeed a water issue and the sensor got wet and that is what is going on, is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks!

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:42:44 GMT

LiveView is when you are viewing on rear LCD. You are viewing the picture exactly as the Camera sensor sees it.

Prism is bulge on top of camera where the flash is. The exposure sensor is inside camera in prism area. It is measuring exposure from image that you see in optical viewfinder.

If it is water damage and it's been a while, such that it has probably dried, repair/replace would be the route.

I' just guessing since I can' t see camera, but if indeed you have reset everything and it's still not working not sure what else it would be.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

theandies — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:00:51 GMT

It appears to be something with your optical viewfinder. In live view mode (using the LCD) the mirror is flipped up and stays up as long as you're in live view. When switching to live mode you can hear it move just like if you pressed the shutter button when using the traditional viewfinder. You must have some light bleed or something to that effect when using the traditional view finder and this is screwing with the automatic exposure. I suggest try some manual settings and see if the sensor is faulty or something like I described above.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

TCampbell — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:22:20 GMT

There may be a problem with your focusing screen... or possible with the camera's light meter.

The camera has an interanal light meter, but that meter is located up in viewfinder chamber -- above the focusing screen (the same area you use to look thorugh the camera when using the traditiional viewfinder.)

When you use "live view", the main reflex mirror inside the camera has to swing up and clear of the imaging sensor. That mirror folds up and covers the focusing screen (and prevents light from reaching the light meter) so the camera has to meter by using the imaging sensor itself. In other words, it's a completely separate metering system.

What does not make sense is that you also said it does not activate the flash. If the light meter believes it is dark AND if you are in full auto mode, then it should raise and use the pop-up flash.

If you can post an example photo, it would help. But when posting, please take the image from the camera and upload it without allowing any editor on your computer to alter the image (it is especially important that all of the EXIF data is embedded within the image. This is data which tells us what settings were used when you took the photo. We can tell what mode you used, how the camera metered the shot, and what exposure settings the camera chose (as well as what lens you used, etc.) But many editors strip that info out and just leave us with the photo -- which isn't helpful (it's the settings that we really need to see.)

If you can go outside on a completely sunny day and take a photo of a subject which is in full sunlight (not in shade) and post that, then it is even more helpful because we _know_ exactly how much light the sun provides at mid-day (the amount of sunlight that we all get at mid-day is the same for everyone.) Go take a photo of a flower, etc. in the middle of the day and post it (avoid taking a photo of anything that is completely "white" or completely "black" because that will fool the metering system.

Also, please take one using the traditional viewfinder, then take another using the "live view" mode (of the SAME subject -- and please tell us which is which.)

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:21:11 GMT

This was taken in daylight (6 PM) in full auto mode using the traditional viewfinder.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:20:35 GMT

This was the exact same conditions a few seconds later using the live mode LCD screen

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:23:57 GMT

This was taken earlier in the day in more direct light. Full auto mode and traditional viewfinder. I had to resize it since it was too big to upload.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:26:05 GMT

Decent light. Full auto mode. Viewfinder. (again, had to resize. Hope that doesn't mess up the settings)

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:28:32 GMT

Inside, raining outside. Full auto mode and traditional viewfinder. Flash did not pop up. (again it NEVER pops up at all now when using the traditional viewfinder)

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:32:19 GMT

Close up inside my car full auto mode with viewfinder

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:33:22 GMT

Same shot a couple seconds later, same conditions, full auto mode, Live mode LCD screen.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:36:45 GMT

I hope those include the EXIF data you need. I'm not sure exactly how to include that if not.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 21:22:02 GMT

Something is definitely hokey with the normal autoexposure sensor. EXIF reports ISO 100, 1/500 sec , f16 or f/14. Normal daylight at noon would be ISO 100, 1/100 or 1/125 sec , f/16. Sunny 16 Rule.

The two "lamp" photos report unknown exposure program ; the others all report Normal.

I think there is water damage and given the age of camera repair might be cost-prohibitive.

Try taking battery out of camera and let it sit overnight. It's grasping, but maybe it will reset things.
Maybe Tim will have a better suggestion.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:43:23 GMT

I understand. Thanks so much for your time sir.

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

TCampbell — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 05:43:11 GMT

The EXIF data is indeed present in your image.

On the images that didn't use flash, the EXIF data reports

Here's the EXIF for your "indoor" image where the falsh didn't fire:

Camera: Canon EOS REBEL T3

Lens: Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II Shot at 24 mm

Exposure: Auto exposure, Program AE, 1/512 sec, f/16, ISO 100

Flash: Off, Did not fire

Date: August 6, 2015 3:57:57PM

Color Space: sRGB

Field Of View: 51.0 deg

File: 4,272 × 2,848 JPEG (12.2 megapixels) 1,525,527 bytes (1.5 megabytes)

Notice it says the flash did not fire because it is "off" (this is a setting you can control. In full auto (green box with "A+") the camera controls the flash and it will pop-up by itself if needed. But in "Program" mode, YOU control if you want the flash on or off. You can pop it up and tell the camera to use it.

Later, you took an image inside your car (via live-view) and here's your EXIF data&colon;

Camera: Canon EOS REBEL T3

Lens: Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II Shot at 40 mm

Exposure: Auto exposure, Program AE, 1/64 sec, f/5, ISO 800

Flash: On, Fired

Date: August 7, 2015 1:37:01PM

Color Space: sRGB

Field Of View: 31.9 deg

File: 4,272 × 2,848 JPEG (12.2 megapixels) 3,227,133 bytes (3.1 megabytes)

Notice here that the flash fired because it was switched on.

Make sure you familiarize yourself with how to force the flash to fire when you want it -- or prevent it from firing when you don't. This is something you can control.

I'm looking at some of these other under-exposed shots, they are a bit of a mystery. The "chopper" bicycle is underexposed by exactly one full stop... but that was taken in full "auto" mode (not "program" mode) and in "auto" mode it's not possible to dial in exposure compensation (it is possible in "program" mode.) This image has no exposure compensation (it's set to 0) and yet it's too dark. There's nothing in this scene that would have tricked the camera (e.g. an abundance of "white" can do that.)

Also, earlier you have the image of the woman holding the lamp (which is even more underexposed) and that has the shooting mode listing as "Flash off (Never fires)". That's the mode next to A+ on the mode dial (the icon has a lightning bolt with a slash through it.) Having it in that mode explains why the flash did not fire, but it does not explain why the camera mis-metered the shot. At ISO 100 the camera should have used f/11 and 1/200th or f/16 and 1/100th. This image is underexposed by approximately 2 full stops.

I noticed lots of different modes for these shots... full auto (a+), no-flash auto, and program ae. Are you changing the modes deliberately, do you think you may be accidentally bumping and turning the mode dial, or is the camera flaking out on the modes (e.g. you set the dial to one mode, but get a different mode.)??

Re: Sudden onset of extremely dark pics and no flash...

drbonz — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 13:14:18 GMT

No, I almost never adjust that dial. It is always on Full Auto (green rectangle) mode. I use that so I don't have to play with settings (since I am a truly amateur photographer and don't know the proper settings). That's why I have always liked this camera. Full Auto mode has always taken great pictures WITHOUT me having to do anything. I will (occasionally) use the no flash mode if the camera flashes in full auto and the shot looks too washed out with the flash but other than that, I really don't change anything and all of these shots (the dark ones) were taken in full auto.

So the ones taken in Live View (LCD screen as viewfinder) are all OK, it seems that the problem only exists when I try to use the traditional viewfinder?

I just tried taking a shot inside that normally would need a flash. I used the P mode and set it to activate the flash. The shot looks like all my other ones. Dark and the flash STILL does not fire. ??