topic Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

impatronus — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 17:34:40 GMT

Hi! I need a new camera - my 5DII is experiencing technical difficulties and is telling me its time for a change. We have been together since it was first introduced and I have learned so much with it. I am not a professional - but need to shoot professional looking shots for my business and the 5DII definitley helped me do that - in addition to shooting anything and everything I wanted to capture. Today, I shoot a lot of macro -- portrait and landscape as well. Need to shoot products (accessories) in full detail as well as creative shots of the products while in use (fashion/lifestyle), both wide and portrait. I also just love to shoot things I see/like and will continue to do that too. I do not shoot video at the moment - however, I need to begin immediately. I have some great lenses (macro/portrait/telephoto/wideangle/standard), which I will continue using. There has been so much advancement, including connectivity, which is extremely limited on the 5DII, I am not sure where to look. I want a camera that will continue to make me a better photographer, like my 5DII has to done up until now. I greatly appreciate all of the advice/guidance from the community!!

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

diverhank — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 17:58:44 GMT

I'd consider either a 5D Mark IV or an EOS-R (with adaptor). Either one will be an awesome upgrade to the 5D Mark II.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

impatronus — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:08:38 GMT

Those were the two top on the list - can you share your reasoning as to why the EOS-R? Wondered if it would give me more of a runway into the future?

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

impatronus — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:12:50 GMT

always had a canon and always will - I am not even considering a different brand. Regarding post/editing - adobe and I are BFFs. For now, I want to bring great shots to the computer - so I am limiting this inquiry to cameras. Thanks for the feedback!

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

diverhank — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:57:12 GMT

@impatronus wrote:
Those were the two top on the list - can you share your reasoning as to why the EOS-R? Wondered if it would give me more of a runway into the future?

The 5DIV and the EOS-R share a common sensor. EOS-R being newer enjoys the benefit of better software processing so you get a little bit more out of the same sensor (minor though). The EOS-R price is better also.

I don't own either one at the moment but had played with both cameras for a few hours each. There's a steep learning curve but I do think that the EOS-R will give you "more of a runway into the future" as you put it.

The EOS-R can focus better in lower light than any Canon camera out there. It also has the most focus points. Focus is fast and precise and using EF lenses is not a hindrance. You won't even know the adaptor is there.

Outside of fast sports action shooting, the Electronic Viewfinder is actually a huge advantage over the optical viewfinder. It is brighter and the image you see there before you take the picture is actually the image that you will get (exposure, white balance, everything).

For wedding and church shooters, the EOS-R totally silent shutter option is a godsend.

For portrait shooters, the face and eye autofocus is incredible...it will help you nail the shot, even at f/1.2 every time. No more focus and recompose or awkwardly and slowly moving that focus point with the joystick. This is perhaps, to me, the single most reason why I prefer the EOS-R

For macro and manual lenses crowd, the EOS-R's "focus peaking" feature makes manual focus easy.

The fully articulated screen is a feature many discount but how I often wish I had it. There were times I needed to be really low to the ground (pictures of wild life at eye level or landscapes where I want to accentuate the foreground)... Those I had to crouch or lie down on muddy ground...not fun as I'm not getting any younger. One time I actually fell down and hurt myself while trying to get up. With the articulated screen I can remain standing and looking at it.

I don't do video but I think it's just as good if not better than the 5DIV.

You probably be able to guess that given the two choices, the EOS-R would be mine but some will disagree.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

impatronus — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 19:42:50 GMT

Wow- Thank you for such a thoughtful and detailed response!! I can’t wait to go see it/hold it/test it., using your comments as a guide.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

RobertTheFat — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 20:49:23 GMT

@diverhank wrote:
I'd consider either a 5D Mark IV or an EOS-R (with adaptor). Either one will be an awesome upgrade to the 5D Mark II.

I agree with Hank, but I would definitely choose the 5D4 over the R. You may not consider yourself a professional; but you need your camera for business, so you're a semi-professional by my definition. In such a situation, reliability is paramount, and the 5D series has always had that. The R may well prove to be the beginning of a game-changing product line, but early reports suggest that the bugs aren't out of it yet. (How could they be? It's a radically new implementation of the mirrorless concept.) If you already had a 5D3 or a 5D4 and just wanted something more innovative to play around with, the R could well be right for you. As it is, I'd take the conservative path and get the 5D4.

EDIT: I hadn't read Hank's reply when I posted mine. He makes an excellent argument in favor of the R, but I'd still favor the 5D4 for the reason stated above. (Full disclosure: I own a 5D3 and a 5D4, but have never used an R.)

Incidentally, one argument in favor of the R that Hank didn't mention is that because all focusing is done on the sensor, it never needs aotofocus microadjustment.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

RobertTheFat — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 21:26:26 GMT

@114470 wrote:
Glad to hear it impatronus as this is my first Canon camera ever so I'm in the process of learning what it takes to use this camera. Coming from using a Nikon, then point & shoot cameras. I wanted something more and to be allowed to use my own lenses of focal lengths.

As for the Canon R, I've seen and heard good and bad things about it. Price is one of those issues I must deal with as I'm cheap or just search for refurbished units. So in my option, if the "R" is on your list, I best wait a few years till the bugs are worded out and if you're considering the "R" best search for a lens adapter if you want to keep using those lenses you already have.

Good Luck with your search as I wish I had as many lenses as you currently do, But I'll have to start somewhere as this is a totally new system to me. But one thing is for sure, I'll not be using multi focal length zoom lenses all primes from here on out.

I think you're making a mistake to rule out zoom lenses. Zoom lens technology has improved considerably since your (and my) film Nikon days. It's frankly hard to justify the use of prime lenses anymore.

My wife and I, who are pretty well equipped, have, between us, exactly two prime lenses. And only one of them, Csnon's excellent 60mm macro, ever gets used.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

ebiggs1 — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 16:57:04 GMT

"I agree with Hank, and Robert, but I would definitely choose the 5D4 over the R."

Go with the 5D Mk IV. It is the more "general use" version. And, that sounds like what you are wanting. As for using zoom lenses, zooms are where it at these days. They are so good now, especially the two best in class Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Lens and it's big brother EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens, the need for a prime for IQ is gone.

I am glad you are getting up close and personal with PS and or LR. It and the gear listed is the best photographic gear on the planet.

The only problem here is, if the photos are not good it is you not the gear!

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

impatronus — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:24:08 GMT

Going to test the two cameras over the next few days. I will let you all know my findings. I wish there was a way to rent the bodies, even overnight, so I could give them a true test run with different lighting, lenses and locations. oh well. I will go to a few different stores and get as much out of the day as I can.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

Waddizzle — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:44:59 GMT

@impatronus wrote:
Going to test the two cameras over the next few days. I will let you all know my findings. I wish there was a way to rent the bodies, even overnight, so I could give them a true test run with different lighting, lenses and locations. oh well. I will go to a few different stores and get as much out of the day as I can.

Food for thought. They guy who has a few hours of hands on experience with both cameras recommended the EOS R.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

amfoto1 — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 16:43:36 GMT

@impatronus wrote:
...I wish there was a way to rent the bodies, even overnight, so I could give them a true test run with different lighting, lenses and locations. oh well. I will go to a few different stores and get as much out of the day as I can.

Both cameras are available to rent from Lensrentals dot com and other sources, for whatever period of time you'd like.

I agree with a previous post that a camera for work should be one with proven reliabiltiy (such as 5D Mark IV or 6D Mark II).

However, there are some definite advantages to a mirrorless model like the EOS R.

1. The electronic viewfinder gives you immediate preview of how your images will look... essentially confirming your settings.

2. The EOS R has much lower light capable autofocus than any DSLR and it's "focus points" (over 5600 of them!) cover almost the the entire image area (100% of the vertical, 88% of the horizontal).

3. Some stunning new lenses have been introduced with the R and more are anticipated. But it also can be used with existing EF lenses via an adapter. Canon cleverly designed and offers three of those (I bet other manufacturers will follow their lead): a relatively inexpensive plain adapter, another with a "control ring" to which you can assign various functions and a third that accommodates drop in filters (currently Circ Pol and Variable ND are available). This last allows filters to be used on lenses where it's otherwise difficult... such as the TS-E 17mm f/4L Tilt Shift or the EF 11-24mm f/4L ultrawide.

4. Initially the EOS R was offered at close to $1000 less than the 5DIV. But right now with holiday discounts and bundling the 5DIV with battery grip and the EOS R with it's battery grip are almost the same price.

There are some things to thnk about, though. Like all mirrorless, the R's electronic viewfinder is like using Live View on a DSLR full time, so it won't get nearly as many shots per battery charge as a DSLR with an optical viewfinder. The good news is that it uses the same LP-E6N batteries as 5DII and later, as well as many other Canon DSLRs. And there's the BG-E22 battery grip available for the R, which doubles battery capacity. The EOS R is also slower than the DSLRs to start up.... though there's no lag when shooting with it.

Read the reviews of each. Rent them.

BTW, the 5DII you have now was a ground-breaking camera for video in its day. A lot of them were used by Hollywood making films and television shows. In fact, AFAIK, a number are still being used. As such, I bet there's a substantial repair network if you'd like to keep using yours.

The main improvement with the later models, in my opinion, was their much more sophisticated autofocus systems. The 5D II saw little improvement over the original 5D in that respect... both have rather simple AF. 5DIII and later essentially got the 61-point system from the top-of-the-line 1D-series models, and it's been further improved ever since. This makes the later cameras more capable with moving subjects. But if those aren't something you shoot, the AF improvments might not make all that much difference, except that the newer ones are better in low light and "f/8 capable" allowing more lens/teleconverter combos to be use. (The EOS R's AF is even better in both respects.)

Bryan Carnathan at The-Digital-Picture dot com has an interesting and fairly comprehensive comparison of the EOS R and 5DIV. A Google search to "compare EOS R 5DIV" will brind back a number of other comparisons you might find helpful.

Compare... read the reviews... rent each camera to see for yourself..... and don't be too quick to give up on the old 5DII!

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & ZENFOLIO

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

diverhank — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 19:18:17 GMT

@impatronus wrote:
Going to test the two cameras over the next few days. I will let you all know my findings. I wish there was a way to rent the bodies, even overnight, so I could give them a true test run with different lighting, lenses and locations. oh well. I will go to a few different stores and get as much out of the day as I can.

Don't forget to bring your SD card so you can record the pictures and play with them later at home.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

amfoto1 — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 19:32:50 GMT

@diverhank wrote:

Don't forget to bring your SD card so you can record the pictures and play with them later at home.

That reminds me of another possible consideration...

You may need new software or an update of what you have now, to work with the EOS R's RAW files. It uses the new Digic 8 porocessor and it's RAW are the new CR3 file format.

The EOS 5DIV is several years old and most recent versions of software can work with it's CR2 RAW files.

For example, my current Lightroom 6.14 is able to work with 5DIV files... But I'd have to update by subscribing to LR/PS CC to work with the EOS R images.

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & ZENFOLIO

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

impatronus — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 03:48:57 GMT

First- I want to thank everyone again for the detailed and comprehensive points of view. You really gave me a lot to consider. While I have not made a final decision, I am leaning towards the R. But my next step is to rent both of them. I know there will be a learning curve with the R- so I plan to rent that one first to give myself a bit more time to adjust. I will then add the 5DM4 and do a side by side comparison. I will post some feedback as I go through the process. I need to get the adapter as my test will be with my own lenses. I am thrilled to have this option and I hope it helps me to make the right decision.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

tmc784 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 08:55:37 GMT

EVF is good but drain out battery pretty fast.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

diverhank — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 21:05:46 GMT

@tmc784 wrote:
EVF is good but drain out battery pretty fast.

It is true that EVF drains battery but is not a huge factor since it's only activated when your eye is in position (looking through it). Reports from real world experience are very positive on battery usage. Canon has usually been conservative on their specifications. It appears battery usage is one of these.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

tmc784 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 22:26:10 GMT

On paper : 5D Mark IV 900 shots, EOS R 350 shots.

I don't really want my photography being interupted during the trip.

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

ebiggs1 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 22:55:41 GMT

2nd battery!

Re: Another person upgrading 5D Mark ll and I need some advice

tmc784 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 23:26:57 GMT

Pause taking important moment by pull out died battery and insert a fresh battery ?