topic Re: true functionality of metering modes? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 19:40:03 GMT

Hey guys,

I got a 6DMKII to rent for the weekend (I'm currently a Sony shooter but used to shoot with a 6D) and i've got a question about the metering modes. I shoot cars, and have been told cameras nowadays are pretty good with correct exposure as far as shooting in evaluative, but some people do shoot in center weighted average metering mode. My question is, when does the camera actually expose? I've read a few sources (even one on here) and I'd take my time but I only have this camera until Monday next week so I need quick answers. Say if I'm shooting in CWA, expose for my subject in the center of the frame, with the focus points in the dead center of the frame, and then recompose while shutter is held halfway down, does the camera re-expose for the center of the frame after I recompose, or is the camera still exposing for the subject I originally put the focus on? Even with the Sony it's difficult because [the earlier] Sony bodies don't have CWA and the focus points are so much larger in comparison with Canon and Nikon's focus points. TIA!

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

wq9nsc — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 21:46:53 GMT

This is the perfect situation for using the AE lock (auto exposure lock) button. Focus on the part that is critical to you, press the AE lock button which now locks that exposure, then recompose as you wish.

Without AE lock engaged watch the exposure "triangle" parmeters change in the viewfinder display as you recompose and this will provide you with valuable information about how much the camera thinks that the parameters needed to achieve a standard exposure will change as you recompose.

Rodger

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 00:03:57 GMT

I actually thought of it and just tried that, however it takes a huge contrast for the camera's metering system to really do anything even evaluative; CWA didn't do much. Then I switched over to Spot Metering which showed the biggest difference. I'm trying to balance out the exposure of the vehicle no matter which angle and I'm a naturally light shooter (unless one side has really harsh, unrecoverable shadows).

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:20:15 GMT

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@iphonemaster93 wrote:
I actually thought of it and just tried that, however it takes a huge contrast for the camera's metering system to really do anything even evaluative; CWA didn't do much. Then I switched over to Spot Metering which showed the biggest difference. I'm trying to balance out the exposure of the vehicle no matter which angle and I'm a naturally light shooter (unless one side has really harsh, unrecoverable shadows).

When you say photographing cars, do you mean car shows?

I have found getting the correct exposure on super shiny cars at outdoor shows to be a unique challenge. The cars always seem to have areas that will want to overexpose. Meanwhile, the paint jobs seem to absorb light to the extent where the overall image seems overexposed. I use Evualitive Metering for most all handheld shots.

I get the best results at outdoor car shows by dialing in [negative] exposure compensation, up to -1 Ev. I bring up the shadows in post, and wind up with what seems to be an overall decent exposure. I am still experimenting with it, because the color of the car seems to make a difference, too. Pure shades of red seem to get saturated. This has been a complaint on some Cinema bodies, too. [My M3 also wants to oversaturate purer shades of red, too.]

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 00:47:31 GMT

Just recently I started ETTR (exposing to the right) to retain all the information I can in the shadows while using the different metering modes but i'm wondering with what I read today so far makes any real difference (exposing with shutter half held vs exposing when photo is taken after recomp). I'm big on retrieving as much color as I can in the shadows so I never go over -2/+2 EV for full tonal range.

I mostly do car events and shows, yes. Two of many samples I have in regards to red. I actually forgot to desaturate the yellow in the front end photo and I also play around with selective coloring in PS.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:22:36 GMT

I dialed back Red on the old Chrysler. Here is a shot of red over saturation, without any adjustment.

[The old Chrysler was also shot with -1 Ev compensation, while this is one my first shots, shot without any AEC.]

Reds are way too hot with the 6D2 on some shots, mostly those with a LOT of light. This was processed in LR, not DPP. I plan to go through the whole shoot with DPP this weekend for comparison.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

Waddizzle — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 01:55:23 GMT

@iphonemaster93 wrote:
Just recently I started ETTR (exposing to the right) to retain all the information I can in the shadows while using the different metering modes but i'm wondering with what I read today so far makes any real difference (exposing with shutter half held vs exposing when photo is taken after recomp). I'm big on retrieving as much color as I can in the shadows so I never go over -2/+2 EV for full tonal range.
I mostly do car events and shows, yes. Two of many samples I have in regards to red. I actually forgot to desaturate the yellow in the front end photo and I also play around with selective coloring in PS.

I feel these shots need a WB correction, not saturation on yellows.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 03:20:58 GMT

I actually set the WB myself, and those were shot with my Sony A7ii. I have everything on my camera set at -2 and color grade everything myself, including the saturation, so the camera body I use really doesn't matter to me. What matters more to me is the dynamic range and while pushing shadows and increasing contrast on red colored objects in photos, for some reason, turns it magenta

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

Waddizzle — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 12:04:07 GMT

@iphonemaster93 wrote:
I actually set the WB myself, and those were shot with my Sony A7ii. I have everything on my camera set at -2 and color grade everything myself, including the saturation, so the camera body I use really doesn't matter to me. What matters more to me is the dynamic range and while pushing shadows and increasing contrast on red colored objects in photos, for some reason, turns it magenta

When you are shooting RAW, it really doesn’t matter what body you use. But, somehow this conversation has morphed from a Canon body to a Sony body.

I suspected something was amiss with the WB, and you seem to have confirmed it. If your reds are “turning into magentas”, then the reds were never really red. Your WB is more than likely set incorrectly. Color saturation seems a bit high for my taste.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

kvbarkley — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 13:57:34 GMT

Or you are saturating the red channel, that is easy to do with ETTR since we focus on green and blue.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 01:57:00 GMT

Canon does the same thing. I just shot an entire car show today with the 6DMKII. I'll get through an edit tonight [hopefully] and upload it after. I usually go full on saturation via color channels then level out the vibrance only in the highlights. Then I selectively bring saturation down.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 01:58:07 GMT

I usually leave WB 'as is' in lightroom and color grade with curves because if that's not the case, the photo is super blue afterwards if just bringing down the exposure by 1 1/2 - 2 stops.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 07:11:49 GMT

No matter if I shoot Canon or Sony, my results are almost the same, just depending on the metering modes because I use center zone AF on my Sony body and I used center point AF on the 6DMKII. Sony's CWA I believe covers a much smaller area compared to Canon's CWA, the AF points are also different in sizes so why I asked does the body expose when the shutter is half held or does the body expose when the shutter is clicked. I shot a whole car event with the Canon body today and here's an example of a red car:

I believe I exposed for the upper portion of the hood (sky was blown out in original image), AE locked it with CWA and no exposure comp, and did selective coloring on the red by playing with the red, magenta, and yellow.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 15:42:45 GMT

@iphonemaster93 wrote:
Canon does the same thing. I just shot an entire car show today with the 6DMKII. I'll get through an edit tonight [hopefully] and upload it after. I usually go full on saturation via color channels then level out the vibrance only in the highlights. Then I selectively bring saturation down.

Full saturation, straight out of the gate? Less is best, is what many people would say. I think your method is flawed. Making saturation adjustments is the last step I might make.

How do you determine what is the correct color temperature and color tint? I think your entire work flow is seriously flawed.

When I use LR I apply a preset during Import, which applies lens correction. Barring any major corrections to the entire Import, my first step would be to apply any correction to Dynamic Range, by adjusting the Whites and Blacks sliders. I do this while I hold down the ALT key. Try it.

I usually shoot with a fixed color temperature. I seem to get better exposures compared to one of the automatic settings in the camera.

Next, I adjust the highlights and shadows while observing the histogram, most particularly the indicators in the top left and top right corners. This exposure needed very little adjustment as it turned. It is the exception, not the rule.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:45:06 GMT

Thing is, I do. I've also asked how some of the best automotive photographers in the world how they edit and have incorporated their editing styles into my own. I have the camera body set at AWB, then when I bring it into Lightroom, I do use apply a lens correction and also set my white and black points. However, I set my white point at 30, anything more would be too harsh but anything less, even playing with the curves adjustment in PS, will not get me the result I want. Also for white balance, if it's too yellow or too blue, I'll still correct it, but in Photoshop. But also sometimes, I'll change the white balance to make the car pop more (for example, warmer tone for a blue colored car). I'm thinking since I'm metering off the car anyways, the rest will adjust by itself, the only problem is difference between leaving the car dead center or composing the car off to the side. If I had it in CWA, it would meter for both the background and the car which isn't what I want. So that's why I asked, does the camera set the exposure at the shutter button half held (I'd put the car in the middle, AE lock at neutral or positive EV for ETTR, then recompose), or will the camera set the exposure regardless if I recompose?

What I did yesterday, was deciding if there was a section of a vehicle that highlights were blown out, I'd put center point somewhere below where the blown highlights were, and then expose that way. However, I did also move the camera around slightly, take a few shots, and didn't notice the histogram moving much.

I'm doing more shooting today, I'll play around some more LOL

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 19:21:07 GMT

Personally, I would think pushing all of the color saturation levels to maximum out of rote is something you should abandon. It is pretty obvious, at least to me, that your issue is more post processing than capturing images.

You are way over thinking this whole thing, too. I agree with you, that photographing super shiny cars in bright sunlight presents some unique challenges. But, I look at it this way. If my eyes say the reflection off the car is harsh and glaring when I look at it, then I tend to ignore those harsh, over exposed spots and points of light in post.

You really should try holding down the ALT key when you make certain adjustments, like Whites and Blacks, and Highlights and Shadows. In fact, the behavior of many control sliders change when you hold down the ALT key. I guarantee you that you willl have an OMG moment.

Re: true functionality of metering modes?

iphonemaster93 — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 19:45:02 GMT

i'll definitely give that a shot, do everything and leave saturation for the very end. Yeah I mean there's really no limit to post processing either. There were a bunch of times where I thought I exposed correctly but ended up going with creating a silhouette photo but overkilling that, even, looking at it again a few hours later.

Haha that's a nice observation, I actually do overthink a majority of other aspects in my life, I'm known to my friends as the overthinker lolol. That's interesting, why would you ignore the harsh light though? Wouldn't it hurt your eyes? I often times actually bring the whites down because imo, it's overkill.

Yeah I do hold alt while adjusting the blacks, and I just completely kill the highlights if it doesn't look right to me (sometimes I don't, depending on how harsh the light is). I'll play around with it in post some more.