topic Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

Greggersam — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:05:44 GMT

HELP! what is the OPTIMUM setting for shooting stop action sports at night under the lights? (think High School football)! I have the Rebel T5 and a normal and zoom lens that all came together when I bought the kit.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

diverhank — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:31:47 GMT

Shooting sports at night is very tough, as you have found out.

1. First I'd want to determine the maximum ISO setting I'm willing to live with. For your camera, probably ISO 1600. Set an upper limit of ISO to that setting. When I shoot, I'd set my ISO to Auto and let it vary up to the max ISO as needed.

2. I'd set the mode to Tv and set it to 1/1000 - start with that and adjust up/down to suit the action speed. I would not go slower than this. 1/2000 would have been much better if you have enough light. This means that the camera will set the aperture to the smallest possible (e.g f/4 or f/5.6). f/8 is preferred if you have the light.

3. Unless AWB produces perfect colors, I'd adjust the white balance manually to get the pictures to look right on camera.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

Greggersam — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:37:43 GMT

I have to set the camera to Tv first, correct? then hit the Q button and set it to 1/1000. then toggle to ISO and set to 1600 . Is that right? then, toggle to AWB. How do I adjust the AWB manually?

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

kvbarkley — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:41:24 GMT

Shoot RAW and you won't have to worry about AWB, you can correct it shot by shot later.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

diverhank — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 20:06:54 GMT

@Greggersam wrote:
I have to set the camera to Tv first, correct? then hit the Q button and set it to 1/1000. then toggle to ISO and set to 1600 . Is that right? then, toggle to AWB. How do I adjust the AWB manually?

Not exactly what I said regarding ISO. I said set the camera to AUTO ISO after you put an upper limit on ISO (a camera option). When there is light, you don't want your ISO set to 1600 all the time.

Regarding white balance, if you post-edit your pictures, you can do them there. If you don't you need to switch WB to manual and adjust it. The way I do it is switch to Manual white balance, set the initial temperature to around 3000 or 4000. Switch over to live view and adjust the temperature up and down until the colors look right. Sounds complicated but can be accomplished in seconds.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

RobertTheFat — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 22:04:09 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
Shoot RAW and you won't have to worry about AWB, you can correct it shot by shot later.

I don't think that choice is quite as symmetrical as you'd have it appear. If the camera thinks it knows what the correct white balance is (either by its own determination or because you told it), It can try to adjust the aperture and/or shutter speed to make the image come out properly exposed. But when you adjust the WB in post-processing, it's entirely a matter of subtraction; you can't add light in PP. If the balancing process leaves the image underexposed (as it usually will, to some degree), all you can do is crank up the brightness, which may add a visible amount of noise. So if you're pretty sure the camera is getting the WB wrong, you may be better off fiddling with the settings. How much difference it makes depends, of course, on how much ambient light there is and on the low-light capability of the camera.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

kvbarkley — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 22:16:23 GMT

A RAW image is just that, RAW. Just the data from the sensor, *after* the exposure has been made. Only then, does the camera process color balance information.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:40:18 GMT

Bobby, my goodness,

" If the camera thinks it knows what the correct white balance is (either by its own determination or because you told it), ..."

You really do know WB has no effect on the RAW file? RAW is almost always the way to shoot and it is in this case, too.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:09:17 GMT

Greggersam,

"I have the Rebel T5 and a normal and zoom lens that all came together when I bought the kit."

All cameras have a limit to what they are capable of and can do. What you have is going to be your limiting factor. I.E. a faster, higher quality lens would make a great deal of difference. You notice what the NFL pro photographers use? However, you need to work with what you have. Right?

The number one factor when shooting any sporting event is where you shoot from. The old location, location and location is king. There are several ways to set up the T5 for this. You read about Tv and it will probably work but I prefer Av. Here is why.

In Av, aperture priority, you fix the lens wide open. You then let the T5 select the fastest possible SS, shutter speed. In your case light is probably going to be the determining factor. And, you likely are not going to have enough!

If you have Tv set and there isn't enough light the T5 won't fire. In Av although you may not get the exact IQ you wanted, but you will get a shot.

I assume you have this lens the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Lens? Set your Av to f4 but realize you are essentially working with a f5.6 lens. Once moved off of 75mm the lens is no longer an f4. The T5 will know this automatically.

A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway. In Av let the T5 determine this. An ISO of 1600 is warranted and I also prefer to fix it in favor of using the Auto setting.

Next use One Shot and use 'only' the center focus point. Turn all the others off. Later you might try AI-Servo but not until you are truly familiar with the T5. Most of the time AI-Servo will disappoint you.

Shoot RAW and post process it yourself. This lets you forget about WB, white balance, as you will correct it as you like in post. RAW also allows for several stops of exposure correction. Blurry or OOF, out of focus, shots are not correctable.

Bottom line is either Tv and/or my choice of Av is the way to go. Try each one and see what works best. Remember, location, location and location is king. If you are only permitted to shoot from the bleachers, goof luck!

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

kvbarkley — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:33:25 GMT

I could not help myself.

I went out and made a bunch of test shots in RAW and ISO 100, there was light variable cloud cover.

I shot several times at AWB, shot at every WB setting and shot again at AWB

The EV ranged from 13 to 14.3 (typically f/8 at 250). The 13 was flash WB compared to about 14 for AWB.

1.3 stops of exposure is well corrected in RAW.

So I shot again. 3 AWB, 3 Flash WB and 3 AWB. The EV's were:

AWB 14

FWB 14.3

AWB 14.3

I saw no difference in exposure.

So, I did another test. Only LiveView can even conceptually change the exposure due to WB, so I did a LiveView test.

I did several live view shots at Sunny (SWB), AWB and TWB - the widest color temperature of the fixed settings.

WB EV

SWB 13.7

AWB 13.7

AWB 13.3

TWB 13.7

TWB 14.3

SWB 13.7

I have proven, to my satisfaction, that WB setting has no effect on exposure in RAW.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

RobertTheFat — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:52:42 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Bobby, my goodness,
" If the camera thinks it knows what the correct white balance is (either by its own determination or because you told it), ..."

You really do know WB has no effect on the RAW file? RAW is almost always the way to shoot and it is in this case, too.

It's not really my field, so I'll have to take your word for how it works. But it certainly should apply the WB correction before (or while) metering the scene. And it evidently can do so, since that must be what it does when shooting JPEGs. Otherwise, many JPEGs would be erroneously exposed with no effective recourse.

And it's hardly necessary to lecture me about the benefits of shooting RAW. The only JPEGs I've shot since the spring of 2007 were on a couple of occasions when I was using a camera just back from Jamesburg and forgot that they always do a reset to factory settings. (Why, on a 7D or a 5D3, is the default not RAW? You tell me.)

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:30:12 GMT

Bob
Boston, Massachusetts USA

"But it certainly should apply the WB correction before (or while) metering the scene."

Whether it should or should not isn't a reason for how it actually works. WB does not effect RAW as most other settings do not. It is simply the dots and dashes in other words the raw data. It is sensor output data. The rest is added when conversion takes place so it can be viewed. Things like DR, sharpness, contrast, style, etc. do not alter the raw file so they can be ignored.

And B from B said,

"... it's hardly necessary to lecture me about the benefits of shooting RAW."

Not trying to lecture there Robert, just a clarification, teaching moment.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

Waddizzle — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 17:00:07 GMT

"A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway. In Av let the T5 determine this. An ISO of 1600 is warranted and I also prefer to fix it in favor of using the Auto setting."

Not unless there is a great lighting system, you're not getting anywhere close to that shutter speed with that camera/lens combination at night. The only way to begin getting near that shutter speed will be to intentionally underexpose by 1-2 stops, and then bump up the exposure in post.

I agree with Av mode to get a constant aperture, which means one less variable to complicate things. I like the idea of specifying an ISO for the same reason. So, why not do the above in manual mode and use exposure compensation?

You might even have to bump the ISO up as high as 3200 if lighting isn't that great, and turning on high ISO noise reduction. Of course, very steady hands, or some form of camera support, will be a must in low light conditions.

[EDIT] Greggersam, learn to use your camera. Notice there are multiple videos at the one link I posted. More importantly, learn to read the viewfinder information.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 20:36:24 GMT

"A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway."

OK, I am curious! What made you conclude I said the OP was going to get 1/500? 1/500 was mentioned because someone said 1/1000. I would say that even 1/250 will get 'most' football action. Is it what I would prefer if I could use whatever SS, I wanted? Probably not.

Using Av he will get the fastest SS the lens can provide, that's all. In this case his lens is a handicap and the weakest link if it is the one I mentioned.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

Waddizzle — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:17:39 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway."

OK, I am curious! What made you conclude I said the OP was going to get 1/500? 1/500 was mentioned because someone said 1/1000. I would say that even 1/250 will get 'most' football action. Is it what I would prefer if I could use whatever SS, I wanted? Probably not.
Using Av he will get the fastest SS the lens can provide, that's all. In this case his lens is a handicap and the weakest link if it is the one I mentioned.

Wrong question. Why should someone NOT reach that conclusion? You provided detailed step-by-step instructions.

"I assume you have this lens the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Lens? Set your Av to f4 but realize you are essentially working with a f5.6 lens. Once moved off of 75mm the lens is no longer an f4. The T5 will know this automatically.

A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway. In Av let the T5 determine this. An ISO of 1600 is warranted and I also prefer to fix it in favor of using the Auto setting.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

diverhank — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:25:34 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
"A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway."

OK, I am curious! What made you conclude I said the OP was going to get 1/500? 1/500 was mentioned because someone said 1/1000. I would say that even 1/250 will get 'most' football action. Is it what I would prefer if I could use whatever SS, I wanted? Probably not.
Using Av he will get the fastest SS the lens can provide, that's all. In this case his lens is a handicap and the weakest link if it is the one I mentioned.

Bottom line is either Tv and/or my choice of Av is the way to go. Try each one and see what works best. Remember, location, location and location is king. If you are only permitted to shoot from the bleachers, goof luck!"

I think it's bad advice for beginners to use Av for action. You guys know what's going on but not for someone who just starts out. Makes no sense...irresponsible, really.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 15:37:08 GMT

"Makes no sense...irresponsible, really."

It may make no sense but irresponsible? Hardly, this isn't the game of life here. There is really little difference in this situation between using Tv or Av. As I succinctly pointed out, Tv would work. However, the lens in question can only open so far. When the light fails, the T5 will not fire. Using Av at least there is more than likely going to be a picture. Whether it is good or even usable might be a problem. I grant.

This is a case where the lens is the weak link not the T5. It is best advice to give the lens the best opportunity to do what it can. All camera and phoyo gear have a limit on what they can do. This will test what the OP had for sure.

Irresponsible? Hmm, strange really strange!

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 15:39:09 GMT

"Why should ~~someone~~ Waddizzle NOT reach that conclusion?"

Thank you, I understand.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

Waddizzle — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 15:49:39 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Why should ~~someone~~ Waddizzle NOT reach that conclusion?"

Thank you, I understand.

Good, then we agree. Your instructions were pretty exact.

"I assume you have this lens the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Lens? Set your Av to f4 but realize you are essentially working with a f5.6 lens. Once moved off of 75mm the lens is no longer an f4. The T5 will know this automatically.

A SS of 1/500 will probably stop any football action. Most of it anyway. In Av let the T5 determine this. An ISO of 1600 is warranted and I also prefer to fix it in favor of using the Auto setting.

Set the camera to Av mode. Set the ISO to 1600, not Auto. Use a shutter speed of 1/500. Use One Shot mode with just the center AF point active, and rest of the AF points disabled.

Re: EOS Rebel T5 shooting at night

ebiggs1 — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 16:04:02 GMT

Against my better judgement but, I see a teaching moment here.

Av means "Aperture Priority". That locks the aperture and lets the camera select the SS, shutter speed. If you set the camera to Av you can not set the SS to 1/500.

If you want to set both aperture and shutter, you need to use manual mode. If you read your manual you will find this.