topic Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 01:25:19 GMT

I have a Canon T31 and a very good preset 500mm preset lens. In "live view" (mirror up) it exposes correctly. In normal (mirror down) overexposes by 1 or 2 stops. Metering mode is set to "evaluative" and everything else is equal. [Tripod and wired remote shutter release].

Any ideas?

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

kvbarkley — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:41:53 GMT

What is the minimum aperture?

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:45:44 GMT

f8, but I was shooting at f11

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:50:22 GMT

oops. minimum aperture is f32

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:53:30 GMT

and shooting in AV mode. Also, I noted that the 'live view' shot was iso 100, 1/100th, while the 'normal' shot was iso 120, 1/60th

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:54:29 GMT

iso was auto

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

TTMartin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:55:16 GMT

If it is a 'preset' lens the aperture is fixed at f/8. So setting the camera to f/11 would throw themail metering of. Camera would meter expecting to lose a stop of light when the aperture stops down, but, it never does.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 03:00:12 GMT

this is a preset Vivitar 500mm t-mount lens. I set the focus and the aperture manually, it was set to f11 and I was shooting at a subject that was effectively at infinity [3500 feet away] (the camera cannot change the aperture nor focus) & the live view image was perfectly exposed.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

kvbarkley — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 03:51:41 GMT

In live view the camera sets the amount of light without opening the lens to the max. In regular mode, the camera expects the lens to stop down *after* it sets the exposure, which is what fools the camera.

Add some exposure compensation to get pleasing results.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

kvbarkley — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 04:02:25 GMT

This raises a question:

I always thought that the exosure was set with the lens wide open, but how does the camera know the maximum aperture of the lens? Nowadays that is easy since the lens tells the camera the maximum aperture. But lenses have *always* worked this way, even before electronics. How did the all manual SLR's know that you had installed an F/1.8 vs an F/1.4?

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

Ray-uk — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:55:54 GMT

With a manual aperture lens the camera doesn't know the aperture and doesn't need to, it just measures the amount of light coming in and adjusts the shutter speed to give the right exposure. (Unless the lens is fitted with an AF confirm chip then it will be read electronically by the camera to determine the maximum aperture, but that can be a totally different minefield.)

Old manual lenses on modern cameras will usually give inconsistent exposures throughout their aperture range and the only way you can overcome this is to either shoot in manual exposure mode while making your own exposure corrections or shoot in AV mode and apply exposure compensation.

Early manual SLRs that had closed aperture metering had to have the lens stopped down before exposure was measured, cameras that had open aperture metering measured with the lens wide open but had a mechanical linkage between the lens and the camera so that the camera knew what aperture was going to be used, this enabled the in-camera exposure meter to make the right adjustments. Later SLRs had electronic contacts between the lens and the camera which served the same purpose.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

Waddizzle — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:02:51 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
This raises a question:
I always thought that the exosure was set with the lens wide open, but how does the camera know the maximum aperture of the lens? Nowadays that is easy since the lens tells the camera the maximum aperture. But lenses have *always* worked this way, even before electronics. How did the all manual SLR's know that you had installed an F/1.8 vs an F/1.4?

On some mounts, there was a mechanical lever connection between the lens and the camera that controlled the aperture.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

ebiggs1 — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:44:01 GMT

lin,

The 'auto ISO' is messing you up. It matters not to the camera what aperture you set if you are in manual. Nothing changes. People that suggested so are wrong. The variable is auto ISO. Set it to a fixed number and try again.

I shoot pre-set manual lens a lot with various cameras and it works very well.

I have the very lens you have but under a different brand name. They were branded by several companies and are still available.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

kvbarkley — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:47:43 GMT

Then why does it work in live view? That still has auto-iso.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:00:09 GMT

Thanks everyone for all of the responses, even the ones that missunderstood the question (my fault for giving the whole question in little chunks).

I am shooting in AV (aperture priority) mode with a 500mm telephoto lens that has no automatic functions; the camera doesn't know nor care what the lens is or what it is is doing, since it reads the light coming in and sets the shutter speed that in its estimate will produce the proper exposure. The available apertures on the lens have no bearing on that estimate, and the AV system will work even shooting through a Coke bottle.

What prompted my question was that I get a different exposure in normal (mirror down) mode than I get in "live view" (mirror up) mode.

It seems that there are 3 possible reasons for this:

1- it is normal, due to the 2 different metering systems being used for the two different 'view' configurations and I need to pick the configuration that is best for my purposes.

2- I have overlooked some feature/setting in the camera that would account for this & can bring them into agreement by changing the appropriate setting.

3- the camera needs to be serviced to get these two configurations to produce the same exposure(s).

I'd like to know which of these I might be advised to pursue.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

ebiggs1 — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:01:42 GMT

I don't know because I don't use live view. But it will work just fine using the view finder. The auto ISO is the only variable if all is set to manual. I see no good reason to use auto ISO in manual mode. Is it manual mode or not?

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

ebiggs1 — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:04:57 GMT

lin,

Set a fixed ISO and try again. Av is not manual mode. It is a semi manual mode. Auto ISO just adds another adjustment the camera is allowed to make.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

Waddizzle — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:31:53 GMT

Are you using LiveView to magnify. In my experince, the location of the focus box in LiveView seems to affect the metering. I suppose how much affect will depend upon the scene.

If you center the focus box, without any magnification, then you should get metering that is very close to the viewfinder exposure. Once you begin moving the zoom/focus box away from the center area in LiveView, the camera will begin to meter differently.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

RobertTheFat — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:38:07 GMT

Since this discussion has already gone off in several directions, I might as well weigh in with a wild guess: This lens is so "manual" that it doesn't know how to maintain full aperture until the shutter button is pressed, like most modern lenses do. (That's tied in with the correct definition of the term "preset", but I won't pry open that can of worms. I did in a previous thread, but nobody took the bait.) When you're in viewfinder mode, the metering system thinks it's looking through the lens at full aperture (f/8), so it adds a stop of exposure to account for the fact that the picture will be taken at f/11. But in live view mode, the camera knows it's already seeing the scene at f/11, so it doesn't add an unnecessary stop to the exposure.

OK, I promised a wild guess, and that's what it is. It's probably wrong, because the metering system probably doesn't work that way. But it's about as plausible as most of what has already been said.

EDIT: Looking back, I now see that Tom said almost the same thing last night. So maybe it isn't so far-fetched after all.

Re: T3i metering with preset long telephoto

lin — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:16:01 GMT

RobertTheFat

That seems to be the closest to the actual explanation, and it may be exactly correct, though I don't know why the camera assumes anything in AV mode (added to all of the other stuff I don't know).

I did succeed in eliminating option 3, I believe, by doing the same test with the same lens mounted on my Canon Xsi with the exact same results, so either both cameras are performing properly, or they both have the identical malfunction. Incidentally they were both set to a fixed ISO of 100.

FWIW, I will likely not incur the nuisance of setting both aperture and shutter speed in M mode since the rig is mounted on a sturdy tripod and the subject is essentially stationary, so I don't care how long the shutter is open and the camera can as they say, take its best shot.

FWIW2, I use live view to minimize camera shake which often (always?) results from mirror movement or having one's face planted against the viewfinder or both.

Thanks again for all of the help, I'll accomodate the camera since it won't accomodate me.