topic Re: 80d focus points in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

80d focus points

chief54 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:40:07 GMT

When shooting BIF sometimes bird is in focus other times not. When using single point or zone 9 focus points I will check where focus points locked in they show locked on bird/birds and shot is not in focus, or when shows focus points locked on background and not on bird/birds they are in focus as in image below any ideas why?

Re: 80d focus points

ebiggs1 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:10:11 GMT

When nothing is in sharp focus it is probably not the focus. Perhaps camera movement?

Re: 80d focus points

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 17:37:50 GMT

“focus points locked on background and not on bird/birds they are in focus as in image below any ideas why?”

I can’t judge focus on my iPad, but if you think birds are in focus but focus locked behind the birds then perhaps lens is front focusing?

Can you try with a different lens?

If nothing is in focus, then, as Ernie says, it could be camera shake.

Re: 80d focus points

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 21:55:06 GMT

I think you have just simply missed the subjects on this one particular shot. Do not expect a 100% keeper rate, either. We all miss the subject, and we might miss more often than we might want to admit, too. Your [screen shows] only one AF point is active, with all of the rest being disabled, or inactive.

I think a single AF point is good for One Shot mode. But, when using AI Servo you really need to take advantage of having multiple AF points active, so that the camera can collect more focusing data, most especially in Continuous Shooting modes. You might try activating all of the AF points, just the 15 AF points in the center group, or the center point with either the 4 or 8 surrounding AF points.

Also, there is a setting called "Image Priority." I suggest that you set both 1st and 2nd Image Priority to full Focus Priority. This setting causes AI Servo to behave a little like One Shot mode, causing the camera to not take a photo until there is a focus lock on something.

The camera will tend to focus on the nearest subject, and more times than not your subject will be the nearest thing for the camera to focus on. This is especially true when the background is outside of the DOF of your subjects. I would also suggest opening up the aperture to f/8, which is the sweet spot for most lenses. Your shutter speed is fast, and a faster speed to get the same exposure will not hurt anything.

I would also recommend using a monopod with a tilt head for this type of shooting. Your Tamron will grow heavy, and wear on your arms, which will only increase camera shake on your part. When using a camera support, you may also want to experiment with turning off the VC Image Stabilization. At 600mm on an APS-C sensor, you can get away wtihout it.

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:37:04 GMT

thanks for suggestions I am using a tripod and same thing happens using the 15 points, which is what I use most of the time and I do have focus priority on both 1st and 2nd, this does not happen all the time but it is frustrating when you see focus lock on the bird and yet not in focus or not focus lock but bird in focus, just kinda weird. I have a keeper rate of around 35-40%, which I am ok with. but just can not figure out why some work. Here is one with nine point zone, one point locked and some editing.

Re: 80d focus points

ebiggs1 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 21:41:16 GMT

"...one point locked and some editing."

Some editing? Go easy on the sliders, less is often more in photography.

Re: 80d focus points

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 22:13:46 GMT

"thanks for suggestions I am using a tripod and same thing happens using the 15 points, which is what I use most of the time and I do have focus priority on both 1st and 2nd, this does not happen all the time...

.... but it is frustrating when you see focus lock on the bird and yet not in focus or not focus lock but bird in focus, just kinda weird.

I have a keeper rate of around 35-40%, which I am ok with. but just can not figure out why some work. Here is one with nine point zone, one point locked and some editing."

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Yeah, a little too much editing on that image. It almost looks like a complete background swap, too.

When you use multiple AF points, do you see the AF points blinking on and off [they will be grey, not red] as they track a subject? The display can show you where it can lock focus, as it displays multiple AF points. In AI Servo mode, it does not show you where it has locked focus, just which AF points have the potential to lock focus from one moment to the next.

If you miss your target, then it stops tracking your subject, but the AF system will keep hunting. You can pause the AF, and re-acquire the subject. This behavior is also programmable. You can set how fast it switches from one AF point to the next when it is tracking. You can set how fast it switches from one AF point to another when you lose tracking on a subject.

Also, make sure that you are NOT using Spot Focus when using just a single AF point for shots like your sample.

You are kind of far away. Only one AF point can cover your subject. Being closer would also help improve your keeper rate, because more AF points will be feeding data to the AI Servo focus tracking system. Although 35-40% is really not all that bad for action shots of BIF.

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 22:26:37 GMT

here is same bird, using center 9 focus points with two locked on birds right wing and no editing, still a little fuzzy,not sure if i mentioned all images I use a Tamron 150-600 and it is on 600mm so i cropped this

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 22:39:37 GMT

here is one which is pretty much in focus using zone with center nine and 4 locked on but behind the bird, I am really confused how can it be in focus if none of active points is on bird

Re: 80d focus points

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 23:44:28 GMT

@chief54 wrote:
here is one which is pretty much in focus using zone with center nine and 4 locked on but behind the bird, I am really confused how can it be in focus if none of active points is on bird

How? Time. A time delay between locking focus and the shutter firing has been introduced.

First, you are using One Shot AF, instead of AI Servo, for an action shot. Using One Shot AF will almost always create a time delay between when the camera locked focus, and when you fired the shutter.

You are looking at the AF points that were capable of locking focus and locked focus on a subject. You were half pressing the shutter when the four points locked. They stay locked in until you release the shutter button, or ire the shutter. You fired the shutter.

Meanwhile, the goose continued soaring along, and out from under the locked AF points, before you fired the shutter. The goose is in focus because it is still within the DOF of th locked focus points. In other words, the distance between you and goose when you locked focus, and the distance between you and the goose when you fired the shutter a moment later, did not change significantly.

Re: 80d focus points

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 23:51:06 GMT

You seem to be doing the exact opposite of how i use my cameras. Typically, i use only the center AF point when I am using One Shot focusing mode with Single Shot drive mode.

Typically, I will enable multiple AF assist points when I am using AI Servo. The above was shot with all AF points active, using AI Servo focusing mode, and Continuous Shooting drive mode.

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 13:33:03 GMT

I understand know, I usually use my 80d and have it on AL Servo, I was experimenting with 6d and forgot to change. Also I use back button focus on both cameras.

Re: 80d focus points

ebiggs1 — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:36:36 GMT

"using center 9 focus points with two locked on birds right wing and no editing,"

This is motion blur.

Re: 80d focus points

ebiggs1 — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:54:53 GMT

"I understand know, I usually use my 80d and have it on AL Servo, ..."

You have to walk before you can run. I would use One shot and just the center focus point. Turn all the others off. The 150-600mm super zoom is a lens that needs practice. You are dealing with some serious focal length. You have several problems cropping up. When you magnify a subject by as much as 600mm does, you also magnify all the problems by the same amount.

Let's go back to basics. Do the One shot and one AF point. SHoot stationary or slow moving birds for a while. Until they come in sharp focus to your liking. Shoot Raw format and back off on the editing sliders. Always do a lens correction as your first edit. I guarantee you will get to the results you are seeking with this method.

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:45:03 GMT

sound advice, though still not sure why this photo is in focus when none of focus points are locked on birds, I am missing something in explanations and advice. This was on a tripod with manfrooto gimbal head, raw, no editing, with right settings although not single point but 9 point, would it have worked with just single point locking in same palce,

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 22:14:33 GMT

same sequence two frames later, so within a second or so, why is this one not in focus, the frame right before was in focus with out focus points on bird, what am I not grasping

Re: 80d focus points

Waddizzle — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 23:47:24 GMT

@chief54 wrote:
same sequence two frames later, so within a second or so, why is this one not in focus, the frame right before was in focus with out focus points on bird, what am I not grasping

You are simply not locked onto the subject. The AF points seem to have lost the BIF, and locked onto the background.

Those shots could have been tack sharp with all AF points active in AI Servo mode. Then again, the shots could have have been tack sharp with One Shot using just the center point, too.

You mentioned using BBF. I only use BBF with One Shot focus, Single Shot drive, and Center Point AF. I think of it as “bird on a tree branch” mode, and save it as a custom shooting mode, C1. I use BBF because I do not want the camera to refocus when I press the shutter.

I program C2 to be nearly the exact opposite. I use the BBF point as “AF-OFF”, Ai Servo focus, Continuous Shooting drive, and all AF points active. I think of this as “BIF” mode, because 9 times out o 10, the camera will focus on the nearest subject, and that subject will be your BIF.

Starting of with a tripod, and shooting stationary critters is good advice. You do not have to limit yourself to birds. Squirrels make good subjects. There is a park near my house, and if I sit on a bench for 15 minutes, all of the critters come out of hiding: rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, etc. I learned hoe the camera behaved doing this.

Once I thought I knew how the camera/lens combo behaved, I tried AI Servo with just one AF point, one zone of AF points, and finally all AF points. Most of my BIF shots are handheld, and frequently the monopod may be hanging from the bottom of the lens. Sometimes you do not have time to disconnect the monopod.

Re: 80d focus points

chief54 — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 00:19:16 GMT

Waddizzle, I appreciate advice, but once again 1st image of geese is not locked on bird, yet it is in focus, why? I understand the image with 4 focus points is not locked on bird but on the background so bird is not in focus, I get that but previous image has focus point not locked on geese but they are in focus, niether image has focus points locked on geese yet one is in focus the other is not. That is why I am not getting this. why one is in focus and other is not

Re: 80d focus points

Waddizzle — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 07:04:05 GMT

@chief54 wrote:
Waddizzle, I appreciate advice, but once again 1st image of geese is not locked on bird, yet it is in focus, why? I understand the image with 4 focus points is not locked on bird but on the background so bird is not in focus, I get that but previous image has focus point not locked on geese but they are in focus, niether image has focus points locked on geese yet one is in focus the other is not. That is why I am not getting this. why one is in focus and other is not

First, it is not possible for us to judge focus from a screen shot. If you say it is in focus, then I will take your word for it. The Birds are in focus because they could be within the DOF of the AF points that locked focus.

Second, you there is a time delay between the AF points lock focus, and when the shutter fired. This delay is longer when you are using One Shot focusing. Your subjects are constantly moving, your camera could be moving, so the captured image can be misleading. What is important is that it locked focus on something, compared to not locking focus on something.

Re: 80d focus points

ebiggs1 — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 14:48:53 GMT

"...why this photo is in focus when none of focus points are locked on birds,..."

Two things time lag and incorrect panning.