topic Re: No IBIS no order. in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:33:26 GMT

Dear Canon,

My position on a full frame mirrorless camera is, no IBIS no order.

A CPS Gold Member

Re: No IBIS no order.

kvbarkley — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:15:55 GMT

Bye - Bye.

Ken Rockwell's position is that Lens IS is best, especially for wide angle lenses.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:37:48 GMT

Yet of the four RF mount lenses Canon has announced two have no IS in the lens? How does that make sense? If Canon is going to build lenes without IS then I need IBIS. If there is a pro level market segment for a camera and lens system without IS I am not part of that segment.

Re: No IBIS no order.

shadowsports — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 03:44:43 GMT

Goes hand in hand with what I said earlier. Don't buy first gen. The second gen will likely have IBIS. Both Canon and Ni(cough)kon will learn from their first release mistakes. Probably already in the works.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:52:23 GMT

@Bazsl wrote:
Yet of the four RF mount lenses Canon has announced two have no IS in the lens? How does that make sense? If Canon is going to build lenes without IS then I need IBIS. If there is a pro level market segment for a camera and lens system without IS I am not part of that segment.

The current EF lenses with similar focal lengths lack IS, too. How does your complaint make sense?

Re: No IBIS no order.

kvbarkley — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:52:48 GMT

I am not sure about the 50mm, but the zoom may be for video, it does have video stabilization.

OF course, we are not Canon, so we can only guess.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:57:10 GMT

It makes sense because I would like to see the Canon system improve as they move into full frame mirrorless. There is no reason I should be satisfied with a mirrorless version of what I have now. After all, I'm not asking Canon to innovate, just catch up with everyone else.

Re: No IBIS no order.

RobertTheFat — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:28:34 GMT

Mirrorless cameras are power hogs, and the new cameras, which apparently use the same batteries as their mirror-using counterparts, figure to be chronically short of power. Any form of IS will add to a camera's power consumption. So be careful what you wish for if you don't like to change batteries frequently.

Re: No IBIS no order.

ebiggs1 — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:15:23 GMT

Batteries or no batteries, IS or no IS, I am still not interested.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 18:29:55 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
I am not sure about the 50mm, but the zoom may be for video, it does have video stabilization.

OF course, we are not Canon, so we can only guess.

When used in video mode, the camera body has the same 5-axis, in-camera stabilization as the 6D Mark II, and other bodies.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 21:37:33 GMT

I understand the power issue and I agree with what you said Bob. I have an M5 that I use when size and weight are important and I am very happy with it in spite of the more rapid battery depletion. In my case it is not a big issue since I never shoot more than a few hundred frames on a single shoot. I do carry a spare battery but have never had to use it.

The good news is that two Canon executives were quoted in an interview saying that they are considering IBIS for a future camera but they are still analizing the cost, size and heat dissipation issues. At least they did put a fully articulated display on the EOS R. Nearly every time I shoot I curse the lack of that one feature on my 5D Mark IV.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 22:21:11 GMT

@Bazsl wrote:
It makes sense because I would like to see the Canon system improve as they move into full frame mirrorless. There is no reason I should be satisfied with a mirrorless version of what I have now. After all, I'm not asking Canon to innovate, just catch up with everyone else.

Once upon a time, I think read about how one in-camera IS worked. It works by "locking" on to as much of the center of the image as it can, and then it will automatically crop and center the image, which will lend the appearance that the image is stabilized.

In other words, because of the automatic cropping, your images may not always be "full size", just near full size. Is that type of behavior something that you would want? I would rather have the IS performed in the lens, so that all of my images will be the same size.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 22:39:23 GMT

That is how Canon's video stabilization works but the size of the image is not affected since they only use part of the sensor for video and thus have lots of room to electronically "move" the image on the sensor. Modern IBIS systems (Sony, Nikon and others) work by moving the sensor in much the same way that a lens element is moved in an in-lens stabilization system. That is the reason that one of the issues cited by the Canon executives the interview I referenced in a prior message is heat disipation. Any time you physically move something using motors you generate heat.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Waddizzle — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 23:58:12 GMT

@Bazsl wrote:
That is how Canon's video stabilization works but the size of the image is not affected since they only use part of the sensor for video and thus have lots of room to electronically "move" the image on the sensor.

Modern IBIS systems (Sony, Nikon and others) work by moving the sensor in much the same way that a lens element is moved in an in-lens stabilization system.

That is the reason that one of the issues cited by the Canon executives the interview I referenced in a prior message is heat disipation. Any time you physically move something using motors you generate heat.

That seems like it would have the potential to have a negative impact on achieving critical focus at very wide apertures. Any time you move something using motors, you introduce margins for error.

Re: No IBIS no order.

RobertTheFat — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:57:26 GMT

@Bazsl wrote:
I understand the power issue and I agree with what you said Bob. I have an M5 that I use when size and weight are important and I am very happy with it in spite of the more rapid battery depletion. In my case it is not a big issue since I never shoot more than a few hundred frames on a single shoot. I do carry a spare battery but have never had to use it.

The good news is that two Canon executives were quoted in an interview saying that they are considering IBIS for a future camera but they are still analizing the cost, size and heat dissipation issues. At least they did put a fully articulated display on the EOS R. Nearly every time I shoot I curse the lack of that one feature on my 5D Mark IV.

My feeling is that the articulated screen is useful for peering over crowds or for previewing pictures that you're in. (I hesitate to use the term "selfie" in this context, but you get the idea.) Otherwise, I see the extra clutter on the back of the camera as more of a drawback than a benefit.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 03:10:35 GMT

You are clearly not an old guy that does a lot of low angle shooting like myself. 🙂

Re: No IBIS no order.

RobertTheFat — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 12:11:44 GMT

@Bazsl wrote:
You are clearly not an old guy that does a lot of low angle shooting like myself. 🙂

I am an old guy, so I take your point!

It's true, though, isn't it, that that case can be handled by a right-angle adapter on the optical viewfinder? But I admit that even that wouldn't cover all possible cases.

Re: No IBIS no order.

Bazsl — Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:53:29 GMT

I do have a right angle finder but it seems to have a lower eye point than the viewfinder on the camera so it is hard to see the whole frame while wearing glasses. It doesn't help a lot when I am trying to shoot straight up from a low angle, something I can do easily with my M5.

Re: No IBIS, No Problem, But, There Is Another Big Problem.

RexGig — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:53:25 GMT

I have believed that Image Stabilization, inside the lens, is superior to inside-body-image-stabilization, so the lack of IBIS does not bother me. It is the lack of a physical toggle/joystick, to move the AF point, that keeps me from ordering an R. I am not opposed to touch-screens, but in cool/cold weather, my skinny, aging hands need gloves, and because I am left-eye-dominant, my nose is more likely to touch the LCDs of some cameras.

To make this worse, the R has this, well, thing, with limited usefulness, that my thumb might mistake for a toggle/joystick. I reckon I could gaff-tape this, uh, thing, to prevent mistaking it for a toggle/joystick, but better to totally ignore the R, as it would be a step-downward/backward from my 5D IV, 5Ds R, 7D II, and 1Ds III cameras.

Re: No IBIS, No Problem, But, There Is Another Big Problem.

Bazsl — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 21:10:20 GMT

With 5600 AF points I think you would find moving the AF point with a joystick intolerably slow. It's not fast on my 5D IV. On my M5 I have moving the AF point set to the lower right quadrant of the screen. The other three quarters of the screen do not respond to touch when your eye is to the EVF. This makes moving the AF point with my thumb fast, easy and intuitive and I have never accidently touched the lower right quadrant of the screen with anything while shooting. Just my experience FWIW.