topic Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Wed, 04 Sep 2013 15:45:30 GMT

Interested in opinions from 1 DX users on the forum, I've asked the question on another forum and received little feedback so thought I'd try here.

The main difference between the 5D3 and 1Dx AF systems is the intelligent tracking option (as well as the separate processor).
I wonder how many of us use this on a day to day basis, and how effective it is?
Most of the time I tend to use single point or single point with surrounding assist, which of course doesn't use this function, and wondered if I am missing using a useful function, and how/if others use it?

Thanks, George.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

Whiteflyer — Fri, 06 Sep 2013 22:32:04 GMT

If I read your post correctly you have a 1D X, so maybe you should try it and report back with your findings.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 10:55:28 GMT

Yes I do have a 1Dx, but as I said in my original post, the type of photography I do means I don't use the settings which would let me use the iTR, and I was hoping that there were some who had experience of it and could shed some light on it's usefulness.

The limited amount of testing I have done indicates to me that it gives no benefit, but I didn't want to prejudice any replies.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 17:54:23 GMT

Surprised there are no more comments on this???..

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

TCampbell — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 20:09:23 GMT

If you're just using one AF point you may as well use a 5D II. Half the point of owning a camera that can do this is to exploit the feature.

I have a 5D III but I do actually consider when to use _all_ of the focus modes and tend to not just stick to one. Each one has a unique advantage. I never thought I'd use the 61-point auto-select mode but it turns out that if you're following athletes that can move around in the frame quite a bit then the full 61-point AF mode with iTR works _really_ well. If you use another mode then you're constraining the selected AF point(s) (e.g. you could use zone AF but the zones are relatively small).

Canon has a 47 page guide on JUST the auto-focus system alone... you should check it out:

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/1dx_guidebook.shtml

The 47 page PDF is in the lower left corner of the page and should definitely be on your reading list if you own a 1D X or a 5D III.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 20:34:46 GMT

Tim, thanks for that, I assume you were trying the iTR on a 1Dx as as far as I am aware it's not on the 5D3

Yes, I've read everything I can find on the iTR but there are quite a few differing views and I wanted to see what real life users found!!..a lot of comments were made just when the camera came out and haven't been updated.

So far i seem to have been singularly unsucessful in finding up to date comments, which suggests it either doesn't make much difference or most have it switched off!!

As I said, I tend to use centre point with assist on my shots which are mainly wildlife, and the af on the 1Dx willl knock spots off a 5D2 in terms of af acquisition and stability.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

TCampbell — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 21:45:22 GMT

The 1D X and 5D III have the same focus system. The _only_ nuance is that a 1D X has more metering zones than a 5D III so they link the metering system into the tracking algorithm on the version of iTR they use on a 1D X. Other than that, the two systems are the same.

They explain the nuance on that page I linked above.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:05:52 GMT

Thanks Tim, the interesting part is the following....

Aside from the ability to use EOS iTR, and its companion Face Detection technology that is also used with Automatic AF point selection, AF operation with the two cameras is essentially the same.

and so as far as I can see, the iTR function, which also includes face recognition and is switchable on and off in the menue of the 1Dx, is not available on the 5D3.

Therefor the original question still stands, do 1Dx owners use this or not?

George.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

Stoneysnapper — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:01:10 GMT

I have it enabled on my 1Dx but that said I rarely use all 61 points or zone af and typically only use centre with cross or box surround assist for shooting football matches. To be honest I've never really tried it out using all 61 points, by all accounts its pretty good but I like to have a bit more control over my focus target at football matches so hence why I only use a max of 9.

I have read it can slow the AF down but I am assuming because I am not using all 61 or zone af that it wont affect my af speed. I'm now wondering if I am assumming wrongly! Better try it and foind out I suppose!

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:27:44 GMT

Hi, you are using the settings that I use most of the time, and like you I've never really tried it out as I don't use the 61 pionts.

Some of my friends have said it slows down the af, but this would only apply if you are using the 61 points, so if you're using the other settings for af point selection then I don't think it'll affect the af performance, which in my opinion is really excellent on the 1 Dx.

Glad we've got a 1Dx user to comment, it's all very well looking at the specs, but until you use it in real life it's difficult to assess, and as the system on the 1 Dx and as far as I'm aware on the 5D3 is so good I think most users will be struggling to assess it.

The comments I've had from people that have used both these bodies seems to indicate the keeper rate is higher on the 1 Dx, I suppose the dedicated processor will help and is necessary for 12 fps.

Be interested in your test results!!

Thanks for replying,

George.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

MichaelGClark — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 22:51:28 GMT

The 5D Mark III does not have the iTR system. It doesn't even have an RGB+IR light meter. The light meter in the 5D Mark III is monochrome.

The 5D Mark III has basically the same PDAF system as the 1D X, but the PDAF system must stand alone.

The iTR system leverages both the PDAF system and an RGB+IR light meter that is essentially a low resolution color CMOS sensor to track subjects using colors as well as contrast. The 1D X, 7D Mark II, 5Ds, 5Ds R, 5D MArk IV, and 1D X Mark II are the only cameras in Canon's current lineup with the iTR system.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

MichaelGClark — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 07:04:41 GMT

I've used it on the 7D Mark II. It works well for certain situations such as tracking athletes while allowing them to move around in the frame as the situation develops instead of having to keep them in the same part of the frame under the same AF point as the play develops.

Prior to the 7D Mark II, which is the first body I've used with the iTR system, I never used automatic selection of focus points with any of my Canon cameras. The few times I tried it 'way back when' it seemed the AF point with the nearest subject under it was always selected resulting in photos of sharp foreground grass or gym floors with fuzzy athletes further away from the camera.

When not using iTR I manually select an AF point, usually with the four expanded points and occasionally with the eight expanded points also active. It may be the center AF point or it may be any one of the other AF points depending on the situation. It all depends on what I'm shooting. But there are times when iTR is the best strategy. It's not perfect, but no AF system is!

The ability to designate the beginning AF point when using iTR makes all of the difference when allowing the camera to change the AF point as the subject moves around in the frame. The AF point does not suddenly jump from one side of the frame to the other. It progresses around the frame with whatever it has locked onto. Unlike the old days, there isn't a tendancy to lock onto the nearest thing in the frame. The camera locks onto whatever is under the designated AF point when AF is initiated and follows it anywhere in the frame there is an active AF point. All of the AF points that can be used with the lens you have mounted are active (Group A, Group B, etc.).

Whatever choices you have made with regard to AF case, tracking sensitivity, focus/release priority etc. are still in effect with iTR.

Combined with the AF-ON button to initiate AF it is very controllable. My shutter half-press is set to only initiate metering and NOT to initiate AF. If the camera does lose tracking of the intended target I only have to let off and repush the AF-ON button to reset the AF point to the designated starting point. Of course I need to be sure the intended subject is under the designated point when I 'reboot' iTR.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 08:34:04 GMT

Well I've moved on from the original post, I now use 1Dx mk2s but I still don't use the iTR sustem, however the AF on the mk2 is in my opinion, even better than the already excellent mk1 system.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

RobertTheFat — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 12:27:32 GMT

Well, one thing that's happened in the 45 months since this thread got started is that the 5D4 has come out. How does it compare to the 5D3 with respect to the features being discussed?

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

KingEyre — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 12:49:38 GMT

Well, Bob, it's now got iTR, but I still don't know anyone using it, as I said I'm mainly wildlife and so use the centre/surrounding points usually and the iTR won't work on that.

I would say though that although the 5D4 and 1Dx mk2 have the same basic set up re AF, my experience is that the mk2 is quicker and more accurate on more shots than the mk4, perhaps due to the dedicated processor in the mk2..it's af is really excellent.

Perhaps others will comment?

George.

Re: iTR AF on 1 Dx

MichaelGClark — Sun, 18 Jun 2017 00:25:09 GMT

Bob,

I sometimes use it on the 7D Mark II for specific applications. It works well for some types of sports and action, airshows, birds in flight, etc. Like any new method of using the highly configurable AF systems on Canon's current upper tier bodies, it takes a bit of experimentation and practice to learn to use it effectively. Which use cases you combine it with and how you fine tune tracking sensitivity, accel/decel tracking, and AF point autoswitching will have a significant effect on how it behaves.

I think many users aren't patient enough to take the time needed to experimentally shoot with it in situations where results aren't critical (i.e. when not shooting for a paying client) to learn how to harness its capabilities. They're perfectly happy to continue to use single point or single point w/expansion as they have for several generations of camera models because it also works very well and is improved a bit from previous implementations. And that's fine as long as they are happy with the results.

For me it is just another tool in the bag. When iTR makes the most sense to me I use it. When another AF method makes more sense I'll use that one instead.

I haven't moved from the 5D Mark III to the 5D Mark IV and probably won't anytime in the near future. The two things I wish the 5D III had that it doesn't is flicker reduction and an RGB+IR meter. The 5D Mark IV has both.

Even beyond iTR, the RGB+IR meter in the 7D Mark II does a much better job at '"guessing" correctly in difficult lighting scenarios than the monchrome meter in the 5D Mark III does. Particularly in environemnts with lighting that has a fairly heavy cast on the magenta-green axis (e.g. typical stage lighting in bars and other smaller performance venues), it is much less prone to blowing out a single color channel than a monochrome meter is when the other two channels are a lot dimmer. Even though I usually use manual exposure mode in such circumstances, the meter in the 7DII can get me there faster than the meter in the 5DIII can. If I'm using both bodies I then cheat and apply the info gleaned from the 7DII to the 5DIII and shoot mostly with it!

Of course the color meter is required for iTR. I'm not sure how effective iTR would be with a camera with only a single processor instead of dual processors like the 1D X variants and the 7D Mark II. The situations that benefit the most from iTR are those that require speed from the AF system.