topic Re: Need pro advice on upgrade in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Need pro advice on upgrade

mstu33 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:19:35 GMT

The time is now. I have the approval to make a camera/lens purchase for my department at work. I work as Director of Marketing & Communications at an independent school. I have $4,800 for both a camera and lenses. What combination would you recommend? I am excited to upgrade from the T3i I have been using. I have rented both the 80D and the 5D Mark IV.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:37:48 GMT

Since you rented both, which suits your needs more? You will get tons of advice here; recommendations to buy one or the other. Only you can truly know what your needs are and which camera suits them better.

One caveat - depending on how many and what version lens you have with the T3i - the 5D will not be able to use any EF-S lenses. But since you rented the 5D I am guessing you know that.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

RobertTheFat — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:11:32 GMT

@mstu33 wrote:
The time is now. I have the approval to make a camera/lens purchase for my department at work. I work as Director of Marketing & Communications at an independent school. I have $4,800 for both a camera and lenses. What combination would you recommend? I am excited to upgrade from the T3i I have been using. I have rented both the 80D and the 5D Mark IV.

$4800 is not enough to buy an entire full-frame rig. So unless you're lucky enough to already have an almost full complement of EF (not EF-S) lenses, I'd have to recommend against the 5D4. Either the 80D or the 7D Mark II should suit you well. I'd go with the 7D2, but it's really just a personal preference. We have some in the forum (Waddizzle, for instance) who would argue forcefully for the 80D, and I can't really say that he's wrong; the 80D is a very capable camera. (And it hasn't proven to be a lemon, as the 70D arguably has.)

Another benefit to staying with the APS-C format is that you'd have no compelling reason to jettison your T3i. If you have to do a lot of event photography (and in your job I suspect that you do), the advantage of carrying two cameras (and therefore not having to change lenses) can hardly be overstated.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

mstu33 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:20:51 GMT

Thanks for your advice! I currently own 2 EF lenses (a 70-300 Sigma and a 50mm prime) and plan on upgrading to the 70-200 f/2.8 and the 24-70. I am considering the 6dmarkii.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

ebiggs1 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:52:39 GMT

EOS 6D Mk II,

EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM,

EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM

Gonna be tough to beat that outfit. I am all in for it.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

TCampbell — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:20:38 GMT

It’s a bit of a tight squeeze...

The 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM III is $2100. (The version II is $1800... that would save $300).

The 24-70mm f/2.8 USM II is $1600

The 6D II body-only is $1600.

You could get a 6D II with the 24-105mm kit (instead of the 24-70 ... so you lose the f/2.8). That becomes $2500 for the camera + lens (vs. the camera and 24-70 lens separately which would total $3200) so that saves another $700.

That would mean it’s $2500 for the camera + 24-105 and another $1800 for the 70-200 II or $2100 for the III. ($4300 or $4600 respectively)

Do you have a flash? The 6D II doesn’t have a built-in flash and you may really want a flash for indoor events.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:24:36 GMT

How important is f/2.8 for your uses?

The 70-200 f/4L II and 24-70 f/4L are both extremely high quality lenses.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

mstu33 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:36:31 GMT

I do a lot of low-light shooting in the theater so I felt the faster lens would be helpful for that.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:38:07 GMT

👍

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

mstu33 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:56:03 GMT

Thanks for your help! I may be able to squeeze by with the faster lenses. I do have a flash, although it's not high-quality. I am not trained on flash photography so I don't use it too often (that's definitely something I need to learn though!)

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:09:33 GMT

Putting aside the extra features of the 5D, did you see an advantage of full frame vs crop camera?

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

ebiggs1 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:41:32 GMT

"EOS 6D Mk II,

EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM,

EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM"

This is the kit you need. Perhaps you could buy just the EOS 6D Mk II and EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM first off. Later on get the EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM. Forget a flash as it is the last thing to never needed item.

If you just have to save money look at the 80D with the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM and the EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

TCampbell — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:18:55 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"EOS 6D Mk II,
EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM,
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM"

This is the kit you need. Perhaps you could buy just the EOS 6D Mk II and EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM first off. Later on get the EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM. Forget a flash as it is the last thing to never needed item.

If you just have to save money look at the 80D with the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM and the EF 70–200mm f/2.8L IS III USM.

Ernie is always trying to go against the grain. I wouldn’t want to do indoor / dim-lighting shots without a flash if I wanted good results. You can crank up the ISO... if you want noisy results.

In the pecking order of what makes a good photo it’s:

#1 Your skill

#2 Lighing

#3 Lens

#4 Camera body

Lighting makes a bigger difference than the lens in terms of photographic results.

My two most-used lenses for indoor concert events are my 70-200 f/2.8 and my 135mm f/2. I don’t use the 24-70 f/2.8 very often for these events because it would require being too close to the stage. (I use the 70-200 far more than any other lens in my bag.)

There’s also the question of f/2.8 depth of field... if shooting just one subject it’s great. If shooting a group, you can have people falling out of focus... at which point you’re back to f/4 ... or f/5.6... and lower light... and thinking about how nice it would be to have a flash.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

Waddizzle — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:35:21 GMT

@mstu33 wrote:
I do a lot of low-light shooting in the theater so I felt the faster lens would be helpful for that.

Then I would strongly advise a constant aperture f/2.8 zoom. Generally speaking, the higher performance camera bodies can focus better with an f/2.8 lens, compared to an f/4.

Lots of low light shooting is good reason to want a full frame. The 6D and 6D2 are entry level full frame bodies with very good low light performance. The 6D is a great camera, but the 6D2 has a better AF system. Big difference in price at the Canon Online Refurbished Store, too. Go for a full frame.

If you have a full frame 50mm prime, then I recommend the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM, not the version III, only because of price. The version II is an impressive lens. A 50 prime and 70-200 zoom are a good start. My next lens choice would be a wide angle zoom, like the EF 16-35mm f/2.8 II USM, or the version III, zoom lens. This later lens would work very well on a T3i, too.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

ebiggs1 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:49:09 GMT

"Ernie is always trying to go against the grain"

Tim, my friend, do you or have you ever made your living with a camera? Obvious things are usually obvious.

"In the pecking order of what makes a good photo it’s:

#1 Your skill

#2 Lighing

#3 Lens

#4 Camera body"

Not even in the ball park of what it takes to makes a great photo. Like I like to say, photography is 1/2 camera/gear, 1/2 you and 1/2 post editor. If you don't understand that seeming contradiction, I can understand but it is what it takes.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

TCampbell — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:08:49 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Ernie is always trying to go against the grain"

Tim, my friend, do you or have you ever made your living with a camera? Obvious things are usually obvious.

"In the pecking order of what makes a good photo it’s:
#1 Your skill
#2 Lighing
#3 Lens
#4 Camera body"

Not even in the ball park of what it takes to makes a great photo. Like I like to say, photography is 1/2 camera/gear, 1/2 you and 1/2 post editor. If you don't understand that seeming contradiction, I can understand but it is what it takes.

Ernie, that’s three halves and a bit light on details (but you remembered that there should be a camera involved and there should be someone to push buttons on the camera so maybe we give you partial credit). Also, it implies some of the most well-known photographers in history must not know what they’re doing if they achieved notoriety before post editors were invented.

You ramble on about stuff you don’t seem to understand ... while the rest of the industry (who has done their homework) disagrees with you. If you want to be right Ernie, you’re going to need to do your homework so you can actually be right.

Good photos have good lighting. Good lighting has good shadows. If a photographer wants control over that (and a good photographer does), then they’ll use lighting modifiers and they’ll use supplemental lighting.

Good photographers even use flash outdoors on sunny days. That may come as a complete surprise to you and you may not understand why. Rather than me explain why ... maybe you can research why they might do that.

Do you want me to supply a reading list?

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

ebiggs1 — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:58:15 GMT

Good lord the King of 'ramble' said this? "You ramble on about stuff you don’t seem to understand ... "

I would be surprised if I added up a months worth of replies of mine to just one of yours you would win the ramble contest.

"while the rest of the industry (who has done their homework) disagrees with you." Really, my friend, after 40 years of dealing with and producing for the industry in a major worldwide company. Well I let that speak for itself. BTW, do you have such a back ground? No I didn't think so.

Now do you truly think the old timers, of which I am one, didn't have a post editor? Yeah, my friend, it may not have been PS but we always had something even if it was just kitchen spoon to use as a dodge tool. The fact three halves don't add up in your world shows the fact that any one of them can be the most important. Rarely will it be 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 and work but it could. Usually one part excels over the other two.

"Good photographers even use flash outdoors on sunny days"

And, good photographers don't. So what? If a person is limited in budget, as the OP indicated, and something has to be cut out, a flash is certainly on the top of the list.

Each of us is entitled to our opinion Tim. So, flash away to your hearts content.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

shadowsports — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 06:41:28 GMT

Guys,

Wealth of knowledge on this thread. Can we keep it civil and stay on topic.

Guy wants to spend upwards of $4500

mstu33... Where does a Director of Market and Communication take the majority of his/her pictures? Indoors / outdoors, both?

Are the subjects mostly still or do you have to catch action?

Everyone here has made some good points about what you can spend your money on. You said you rented an 80D and a 5D4. Which did you like better. Did the 5D4 feel like overkill? Or were you snapping away going holy $h()t I'm taking some great pictures. The 80D is a enthusiast grade camera. The 5D4 is pro. Which are you?

The 80D has an articulating screen. Is this important to you? It is for me... so no 5D4. I'm suffering though life with my 6D2 and loving every minute of it.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

coachboz68 — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:17:24 GMT

@mstu33 wrote:
The time is now. I have the approval to make a camera/lens purchase for my department at work. I work as Director of Marketing & Communications at an independent school. I have $4,800 for both a camera and lenses. What combination would you recommend? I am excited to upgrade from the T3i I have been using. I have rented both the 80D and the 5D Mark IV.

First, if I had to make a tradeoff, I'd go with spending more on lenses than the body, relatively speaking.

Second, if I had to choose between the 24-70 and the 70-200 (EF f/2.8 L versions of both) then I'd have to think hard about how much I could control my environment. If you have the ability to stand wherever you want, have people get out of the way and/or pose, etc, then you can get a ton of stuff done with a full frame camera and the 70-200. If you don't have the luxury of controlling the environment, then you have to decide which situations are most important to you. For example, if you're going to be at close range in low light, you may opt for the 24-70 as that is a nice versatile range.

I suppose my advice would be to think through your most common scenarios before deciding. If you'd care to share what those are, perhaps others could advise further.

Re: Need pro advice on upgrade

ebiggs1 — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 13:39:10 GMT

"First, if I had to make a tradeoff, I'd go with spending more on lenses than the body,..."

And so would any person of average intelligence. And, less on little used add-ons.