topic Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Speedlight minus built-in flash?

Andy147 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:50:19 GMT

Hi all

Quick background snapshot: I originally started with a Zenit E which I bought from my art teacher when I was 12 (1976), still got it actually. I had a few other SLRs but ended up falling into the compact digital market due to the demise of film and the initial outrageous prices of DSLRs. I've had my 1300D for a few months now and I absolutely love it, I know it's at the cheaper end (inevitable budget constraints) but I now feel like I'm home again, photo fun-wise. 🙂

So, I bought a Photoolex M500 speedlight, which works very well, but I can't find a way to disable the 1300Ds built in flash, which is annoying because I don't want them both firing at the same time.

I've gone through the manual but I surely must be missing something.

Also, is there any way for the 1300D to remember my AEB setting on full manual? Every time I turn the camera off it resets to the default.

TIA, Andy.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

kvbarkley — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 19:26:48 GMT

Nope:

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

kvbarkley — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 19:37:57 GMT

As to the other, how are you attaching the M500? Attaching the flash to the hotshoe should disable the internal flash.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

Andy147 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:14:10 GMT

Thanks for the replys. I'm using it remotely, but I have to pop up the built in flash for the speedlight to fire and I would have thought there was some way of disabling the internal flash.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

RobertTheFat — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:55:26 GMT

@Andy147 wrote:
Thanks for the replys. I'm using it remotely, but I have to pop up the built in flash for the speedlight to fire and I would have thought there was some way of disabling the internal flash.

Are you sure that it isn't working correctly? Usually, when an optically controlled remote flash is used, the onboard flash sends out a preflash to activate the remote. That occurs slightly before the shutter opens and shouldn't affect the exposure. If your 1300D works that way, the preflash could be what you're seeing.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

Andy147 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:13:04 GMT

Thanks Robert. I've just checked and it is definitely firing. Any ideas?

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

diverhank — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:37:47 GMT

@Andy147 wrote:
Thanks Robert. I've just checked and it is definitely firing. Any ideas?

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You haven't described how you're using the remote flash. As far as I know it's a strictly manual flash so how would it be able to work without being mounted to the hot shoe? When you mount a flash on the hot shoe, the built-in flash is prevented from popping up.

Are you using some sort of an adaptor and use the flash off the camera?

It would help if you'd describe more clearly your set-up (remote flash - what adaptor if any, camera modes -P, M, Av Tv)

As Robert described, if you're using the camera built-in flash as an optical master - I don't think the 1300D is capable? - the built-in flash will emit a series of flashes for the purpose of communicating, even if you turn off the option for the flash to fire.

In P, M, Av, Tv modes, the built-in flash does not automatically pop up so in one of these modes, you do not have to deal with the built-in flash unless you want to.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

Andy147 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:58:12 GMT

It's a Photoolex M500 speedlight which is not connected but triggers remotely, the camera is in full manual mode - M. The camera's flash is not just pre-flashing, it's also fully firing with the exposure, so I get both flashes at the same time, interesting, but not really what I want. 🙂

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

diverhank — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 22:28:40 GMT

@Andy147 wrote:
It's a Photoolex M500 speedlight which is not connected but triggers remotely, the camera is in full manual mode - M. The camera's flash is not just pre-flashing, it's also fully firing with the exposure, so I get both flashes at the same time, interesting, but not really what I want. 🙂

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There is an option to turn the flash firing off if the camera can do optical master. I don't think the 1300D is capable of doing that. Are you sure we're talking about the 1300D and not some other models? Any way look for the option to turn the flash off - it's in the External Flash control menu.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

TCampbell — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 22:37:56 GMT

When a Canon flash (internal flash or even an external flash using the Canon E-TTL system) the flash actually fires a pre-flash followed by the real flash.

The camera:

a) meters the scene with no flash

b) fires the 'preflash' (shutter is still closed) WHILE metering the scene again.

c) compares all the metering zones of no flash against the same zones during pre-flash to determine how much of a difference in light was created by the flash. It then calculates how much actual power should be used for the shot.

d) the shutter opens

e) the flash fires at the calculated power level

f) the shutter closes.

All this happens so quickly that you'd swear it only fired once.

If you use a third party flash that does not support the Canon E-TTL system but are triggered by the light of the on-camera flash, this can create a problem whereby the 3rd party flash fires in response to noticing the pre-flash fire ... but at that time the camera shutter was actually closed. When the camera opens the shutter to take the shot, the on-board flash fires again but the 3rd party flash is still recycing and it misses the shot.

Some third party slaves can be configured to know about the pre-flash... when the on-board camera flash fires, they ignore the first burst of light (the pre-flash) but fire when they see the 2nd burst of light (the real flash when the shutter is open).

It's also possible to swtich the flash mode of your on-board flash to 'manual' (disable E-TTL) and there wont be a pre-flash (but the on-board flash will only fire when the shutter is open.

It is possible to use the on-board camera as a trigger so that it fires the pre-flash but does NOT fire when the shutter is open. This is a bit trickier because it requires that the slave flash understands that system (Canon slave flashes do understand it, and Canon E-TTL compatible 3rd party flashes *should* understand that system. But I don't know the flash product you mentioned.) To make this work, you go into the "Flash Control" menu on your camera, and set the flash to "disable" but raise the flash as though you intend to use it. In this mode the flash will still fire pre-flash to communicate with external flashes... it just wont fire the flash when the shutter is open (all the lighting on your subject will be based on the external flashes.)

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

kvbarkley — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 22:48:08 GMT

This camera won't do what you want. It only fires ETTL-II from the built in flash.

You might be able to put a block in front of the flash and beam it toward the remote.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

Andy147 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 22:48:36 GMT

It seems Photoolex M500 is not supported by the 1300D, although the add implied otherwise. It's a shame, because it triggers and would be perfect if I could just stop the internal flash from firing. Hay-ho.

Oh well, looks like I'm getting a Canon speedlight for christmas then. 🙂

Thanks for your help ppeople.

Re: Speedlight minus built-in flash?

kvbarkley — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:35:17 GMT

It is also your camera. I am assuming that the M500 is being "passively" optically triggered. It *needs* the 1300D to flash to know when to flash itself. On My T6S, I can turn the flash power down so that it will not influence the shot, you can't do that on the 1300D.