topic Re: AEL doesn't lock in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:17:59 GMT

Why is it that on say a 5Dm4 or 5DS the AEL feature turns itself OFF the very moment I take a shot and then get into the menu/screen system. I am a wedding photographer and sometimes I like to lock the exposure (e.g. a sunset) and then adjust the flash output on my Bride using the menu system which is easier to do rather than on the flash head itself in the dark. In other words AEL is not 100% locking if you want to do anything with the menu after taking the shot. Unless I am doing something wrong?

Re: AEL doesn't lock

RobertTheFat — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:52:09 GMT

@arogers wrote:
Why is it that on say a 5Dm4 or 5DS the AEL feature turns itself OFF the very moment I take a shot and then get into the menu/screen system. I am a wedding photographer and sometimes I like to lock the exposure (e.g. a sunset) and then adjust the flash output on my Bride using the menu system which is easier to do rather than on the flash head itself in the dark. In other words AEL is not 100% locking if you want to do anything with the menu after taking the shot. Unless I am doing something wrong?

In the case you cite, why not just expose for the sunset and let the flash decide on the amount of light needed for the bride? I believe any ETTL speedlite has a mode that lets it do that. Then you don't have to mess with the menus after you've locked the exposure. Indeed, I don't think you even have to lock the exposure.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:07:07 GMT

Hi Bob, thanks for your reply. Yes I use the flash in ETTL mode, however it is not always accurate, So when we take the first shot typically we need to FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) the flash up or down. Within the menu systems now there are controls to very quickly do this, and there are also controls on the flash itself but using the menu system is easier especially in low light. The are various ways of achieving a bridal sunset shot, e.g shoot in manual or AV mode, flash on manual or ETTL. Wedding photographers mosrly use AV mode and ETTL because it is quicker. It can even be a quicker process when using AEL and simply pointing the camwra at the sunset, AEL the exposure, and fire away. However as soon as I access the menu system( to adjust the flash power up or down if I need to) AEL turns itself OFF. It's just annoying and means I need o point at the sunset again to get the exposure and then AEL again. SO to summarise AEL is not really AEL, it unlocks as soon as you do anything in the menu screen. I'd love to ask Canon why did they design AEL that way and can they fix it 🙂

Re: AEL doesn't lock

Waddizzle — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:40:57 GMT

The camera is behaving as it should. Save the settings as preset, with or without auto update enabled. I go without auto update enabled. I use C1 and C2 for two shooting scenarios, and use C3 for a scratchpad.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

TTMartin — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:12:33 GMT

@arogers wrote:
Why is it that on say a 5Dm4 or 5DS the AEL feature turns itself OFF the very moment I take a shot and then get into the menu/screen system. I am a wedding photographer and sometimes I like to lock the exposure (e.g. a sunset) and then adjust the flash output on my Bride using the menu system which is easier to do rather than on the flash head itself in the dark. In other words AEL is not 100% locking if you want to do anything with the menu after taking the shot. Unless I am doing something wrong?

AEL is a short term exposure lock.

Fully Manual mode is for long term exposure lock.

Set up your camera for fully Manual operation (manual shutter, manual aperture, and manual ISO), and then practice changing the parameter you want to change (Tv,Av, or ISO) until you can do so without even thinking about it.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:14:48 GMT

Waddizzle, yes there are various ways/methods to use the camera, e.g. the C settings as you have described etc. BUT my point is AEL (Auto Exposure Lock) is supposed to LOCK the exposure which it does perfectly EXCEPT the moment you get into the menu screen it unlocks itself, and that is not optimal in my opinion. LOCK should be LOCK right?. Even if you just want to review the image, zoom in or whatever, it UNLOCKS.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 03:02:05 GMT

When you're a wediing photographer, and even more so when your style is photojournalistic, AV mode in my experience is always that little bit quicker and safer than manual mode. AE has always been for short term exposure locking, but AEL is supposed to LOCK the exposure for as long as needed. That's why it is called AE L. It's a shame the LOCK feature doesn't stay locked on though when accessing the menu system. If it did I could work a fraction faster. So anyway unless they change it then yup I'll have to continue setting the exposure manually and adjust the flash output as needed.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

RobertTheFat — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 04:10:58 GMT

@arogers wrote:
Hi Bob, thanks for your reply. Yes I use the flash in ETTL mode, however it is not always accurate, So when we take the first shot typically we need to FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) the flash up or down. Within the menu systems now there are controls to very quickly do this, and there are also controls on the flash itself but using the menu system is easier especially in low light. The are various ways of achieving a bridal sunset shot, e.g shoot in manual or AV mode, flash on manual or ETTL. Wedding photographers mosrly use AV mode and ETTL because it is quicker. It can even be a quicker process when using AEL and simply pointing the camwra at the sunset, AEL the exposure, and fire away. However as soon as I access the menu system( to adjust the flash power up or down if I need to) AEL turns itself OFF. It's just annoying and means I need o point at the sunset again to get the exposure and then AEL again. SO to summarise AEL is not really AEL, it unlocks as soon as you do anything in the menu screen. I'd love to ask Canon why did they design AEL that way and can they fix it 🙂

I'm not suggesting that you use ETTL at all; I'm suggesting you use External Flash Metering. If you do that, I think you can let the flash adjust its own power while the camera concentrates on the sunset. It's described on page 36 of my 600EX manual (which probably isn't the latest one).

In all probability, the reason you're having to use FEC is because of the ETTL algorithm's proclivity to treat all flash as fill flash. I find that ETTL works pretty well if what I want really is fill flash (or if I'm using bounce flash), but that it's fairly useless otherwise.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

Waddizzle — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 09:37:29 GMT

@arogers wrote:
Waddizzle, yes there are various ways/methods to use the camera, e.g. the C settings as you have described etc. BUT my point is AEL (Auto Exposure Lock) is supposed to LOCK the exposure which it does perfectly EXCEPT the moment you get into the menu screen it unlocks itself, and that is not optimal in my opinion. LOCK should be LOCK right?. Even if you just want to review the image, zoom in or whatever, it UNLOCKS.

Let me ask you this. You might find the behavior inconvenient, but I think most photographers would not. If not when you go into the menus, then when should the AEL lock release itself? The current behavior locks when it should, and releases when you go into the menus. I see nothing wrong with that behavior.

Like I said, I use a preset as a scratchpad to hold settings when i want to retain them for a short period of time. Besides, you can always “lock” the exposure by using Manual mode.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:08:07 GMT

In my opinion the AEL should release itself ONLY when I hit the assigned button that turns it on and off. i.e. I decide when. The whole idea of locking something is to lock and unlock it manually, not have it unlock by itself. There are times this is inconvenient, a) As i explained when trying to operate the various flash controls via the menu, b) when reviewing an image(s) zooming in peaking at the histogram etc, and I am sure there are others. I'd be interested to know if NIKON or SONY AEL is the same as Canon.

I'm going to experiment though with your scratchpad method.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

TTMartin — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 15:48:15 GMT

@arogers wrote:
When you're a wediing photographer, and even more so when your style is photojournalistic, AV mode in my experience is always that little bit quicker and safer than manual mode. AE has always been for short term exposure locking, but AEL is supposed to LOCK the exposure for as long as needed. That's why it is called AE L. It's a shame the LOCK feature doesn't stay locked on though when accessing the menu system. If it did I could work a fraction faster. So anyway unless they change it then yup I'll have to continue setting the exposure manually and adjust the flash output as needed.

I would agree that Av mone is faster and safer, however, if you are going into the camera's menus that's not really time when you're doing 'fast shooting'. My suggestion is that you set up one of your Custom settings as full manual (Tv,Av,ISO) that way you can quickly change to that when you want your long term exposure lock. Then revert back to Av for your on the fly shooting.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

Dlawson7 — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 22:30:58 GMT

I just read this article today. Maybe it will help you

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2013/20131203_winston_aelock_blog.shtml

Re: AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 23:12:26 GMT

@TTMartin If you set up access to the flash settings in the Quick Control screen (which is a brilliant), it is much faster to adjust the flash power (up or down as needed) compared to fumbling around in the dark with the buttons and that little wheel on the actual flash head itself. That's why AEL needs to stay locked on when I go into that Quick Control screen.

Re: AEL doesn't lock

RobertTheFat — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 06:08:39 GMT

@arogers wrote:
@TTMartin If you set up access to the flash settings in the Quick Control screen (which is a brilliant), it is much faster to adjust the flash power (up or down as needed) compared to fumbling around in the dark with the buttons and that little wheel on the actual flash head itself. That's why AEL needs to stay locked on when I go into that Quick Control screen.

I think you need to get your head around the fact that Canon isn't going to change the way AEL works any time soon. You've rejected several suggestions without (I think) trying them, on the grounds that your way, if it worked, would be better. But since it apparently doesn't, don't you risk letting the perfect be the enemy of the good?

Re: AEL doesn't lock

arogers — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 06:27:16 GMT

Bob you're probably right, Canon are not going to improve their AEL. But you're wrong because of course I have considered some of the other approaches and suggestions made here, all of which have merit.