topic Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

KenandSusan — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 05:11:49 GMT

We have started taking photos for real estate using a T4i with several lenses. Our interior or exterior only shots are fine. Interior shots trying to capture the view out a window or large opening has the exterior washed out or over exposed. Have tried various settings and now thinking either a manual setting or combining to different shots (one for interior and one for exterior) are needed. Any advice? Thank you, Ken and Susan

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

Waddizzle — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 10:36:27 GMT

There is nothing wrong with the camera. The camera can capture only so much dynamic range at one time, which is the difference in light in the darkest and brightest areas of a scene. If you take one photo, some areas will be either under exposed, or some areas will be over exposed.

Fortunately, there are techniques for working around this problem. Use a tripod, and take a series of bracketed exposures, which are later combined into a single shot. This is called HDR, high dynamic range, photography.

The above shot is an example off a dark foreground and a bright background. It is created from a regular exposure, an under exposure, and an over exposure to capture the details in the foreground.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

diverhank — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:31:15 GMT

As Waddizzle says, you should bracket your shots (use AEB function) or take at least 2 shots...one with the interior properly exposed and one much darker so the view in the window is properly exposed. You then merge the two (or more) in post processing.

You can use an HDR software or Photoshop HDR function to merge or you can just manually blend the two together in photoshop. I prefer the latter. Most of (dramatic) landscape pictures out there go through this process to a certain extent.

I don't have any interior shot to show you but here is one that would be impossible to take without blending. Here I blended 3 shots together. Without blending, the ceiling is very dark and the outside areas on the left and center would be completely washed out.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

ebiggs1 — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:34:25 GMT

That is a nice shot.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

Mr_Fusion — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:09:45 GMT

@KenandSusan wrote:
We have started taking photos for real estate using a T4i with several lenses. Our interior or exterior only shots are fine. Interior shots trying to capture the view out a window or large opening has the exterior washed out or over exposed. Have tried various settings and now thinking either a manual setting or combining to different shots (one for interior and one for exterior) are needed. Any advice? Thank you, Ken and Susan

Shooting through a glass window often gives a lot of glare and/or reflection. That could be part of your problem, especially if you use a flash.

Assuming you are taking the pictures on a sunny day, adjust your camera for that. On the back, press "Q", move through the options and set your ISO at 200 or 400. Set your "exposure compensation" to "O". Set your "AWB" to to "AWB" (auto white balance) or to sunny / cloudy, depending on the conditions. I'd stay with AWB.

Turn your Program Dial to either Av or Tv. Press the shutter half way and see what the settings are in the viewfinder. You'll want an AV of between 7 and 11 and a Tv between 250 and 1600. Turn the scroll wheel until you get inside those settings. If you are still over exposed then adjust your "exposure compensation" down by 1 and try that. If you still are over exposed then keep dropping the exposure compensation until they look better.

NOW, taking a picture inside the house will require totally different settings. You will want to boost your ISO to about 800 or 1600, bring your Tv down to maybe 160. Open the blinds and drapes as far as possible and turn on any lights. (I have had a poor experience with using a flash inside small rooms.) You want to keep an Av of 7.1 to 9.0 in order to keep as much of the shot in focus as possible while using a fast shutter. If you go below a Tv of 160, brace yourself against a wall or doorframe in order to avoid camera shake.

Those are not absolute numbers and may be stretched as required. They do have a rational though and should give you decent shots.

You will notice there are different values for outside vs inside. That is because there is so much more light outside. As good as a camera is, it is still stupid compared to our eyes. A camera can only process the image as an amount of light reflected through the lens. Our eyes do the same thing, however, they are attached to our brain that does a lot of translating that information into a picture inside our heads.

Good luck getting your pictures.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

ebiggs1 — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:18:23 GMT

What everybody is trying to say is, you have exceeded the dynamic range (DR) of the camera. You will need post editing and software to extend the DR. Totally possible and actually pretty easy to accomplish. Lightroom for example does a fantastic job. If you are big time into real estate photography you probably want a robust editor anyway. Besides extending the capabilities of the camera it will provide a cool data base for your shots as the mount up.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

kvbarkley — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:20:33 GMT

Mr Fusion:

The answer was already provided, use HDR. While your exposure advice was correct, it gave no indication about how to combine them into one shot, which was the real problem.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

Mr_Fusion — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:06:28 GMT

Real Estate Salespeople want to sell houses, not work on perfection in a computer program. Not that you are wrong, you are very correct. But I believe you are selling them a proffesional photographer's solution and not a newbie layperson's answer.

If their level of expertise is such that they don't understand what Exposure Values are, I doubt they would find any photo editing program easy. If they did not already own a DSLR camera, I would have suggested they just use their cell phones.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

kvbarkley — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:23:55 GMT

You need to get out more. Nowadays you can do it in camera, no computer required. This is for my T6S, but other cameras have equivalents:

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

ebiggs1 — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:26:37 GMT

"Real Estate Salespeople want to sell houses, not work on perfection ..."

You, sir, obviously didn't work for the real estate companies I did. I guess if you sell HUD houses a cell phone might work.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

ebiggs1 — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:29:18 GMT

"You need to get out more."

Absolutely! It is silly to think anybody can not master HDR in a short time. Now it is so easy. Whether you use in-camera or post edit.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

Mr_Fusion — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:55:34 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"You need to get out more."

Absolutely! It is silly to think anybody can not master HDR in a short time. Now it is so easy. Whether you use in-camera or post edit.

It is only easy if you know and understand it. Expecting others not intimate with the physics of photography to understand it is naive. Not everyone is as intelligent as you or has the same aptitude towards this. And you should understand the aptitude aspect as that is the easiest factor to understand.

The OP obviously knows extremely little about the physics behind photography. Starting off at an advanced level will obviously leave them confused and not understanding the solution. Give the OP credit for wanting to know how to fix it. Giving them a solution above their capabilities doesn't help them.

Suggesting "You need to get out more" is condescending and fits neatly with a pompous attitude.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

kvbarkley — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 21:02:36 GMT

Good, you got it.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

ebiggs1 — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 21:39:34 GMT

"Give the OP credit for wanting to know how to fix it."

I guess I give people more credit than you do. I have no doubt even a 'novice' can learn how. I did DSLR 101 classes for a few years and you would probably be surprised at how smart folks are. The terminology is the only real stumbling block. IMHO, of coarse. I also, still, teach 5th graders (10 year olds) how to play musical instruments. Even they learn how!

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

Waddizzle — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 23:49:02 GMT

@Mr_Fusion wrote:
Real Estate Salespeople want to sell houses, not work on perfection in a computer program. Not that you are wrong, you are very correct. But I believe you are selling them a proffesional photographer's solution and not a newbie layperson's answer.

If their level of expertise is such that they don't understand what Exposure Values are, I doubt they would find any photo editing program easy. If they did not already own a DSLR camera, I would have suggested they just use their cell phones.

The whole point of using a DSLR is to capture better images than a cell phone. A DSLR is just another tool, and a useful skill to use to create a professional and attractive presentation. One could make your same argument knocking MS Outlook, or any of the other MS Office applications. "It's too hard!"

If one wishes to have an edge over your competition in a competitive environment, then you must find something that makes you stand out from the crowd. Having better looking photos of the properties is a desireable PLUS to have in one's bag of tricks. If you're not willing to learn how to use your gear, then hire someone who does know how to use theirs.

As already noted, taking HDR photos is really not difficult to master. It is not too hard. IMHO, I think a real estate photographer needs a good tripod, a good ultra wide angle lens, a quality "normal" lens or standard zoom, and if the budget permits, a wide angle T/S lens.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

RobertTheFat — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 20:34:11 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@Mr_Fusion wrote:
Real Estate Salespeople want to sell houses, not work on perfection in a computer program. Not that you are wrong, you are very correct. But I believe you are selling them a proffesional photographer's solution and not a newbie layperson's answer.

If their level of expertise is such that they don't understand what Exposure Values are, I doubt they would find any photo editing program easy. If they did not already own a DSLR camera, I would have suggested they just use their cell phones.

The whole point of using a DSLR is to capture better images than a cell phone. A DSLR is just another tool, and a useful skill to use to create a professional and attractive presentation. One could make your same argument knocking MS Outlook, or any of the other MS Office applications. "It's too hard!"

If one wishes to have an edge over your competition in a competitive environment, then you must find something that makes you stand out from the crowd. Having better looking photos of the properties is a desireable PLUS to have in one's bag of tricks. If you're not willing to learn how to use your gear, then hire someone who does know how to use theirs.

As already noted, taking HDR photos is really not difficult to master. It is not too hard. IMHO, I think a real estate photographer needs a good tripod, a good ultra wide angle lens, a quality "normal" lens or standard zoom, and if the budget permits, a wide angle T/S lens.

The highlighted sentence tells it all. If pictures taken inside the house help the sale, then good pictures help more than mediocre ones. There are times when it's cost effective to stop pretending and hire a professional. This may be one of them.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

TCampbell — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 21:59:56 GMT

Understanding how exposures work doesn't require a physics degree... it simply requires a desire to learn. If you follow a recipe in a cook-book that calls for 1 cup of milk, you probably wouldn't argue that understanding how to use the marks on the side of the measure cup to fill the cup to the correct amount is complicated. But if you've never seen a measuring cup before you your life, it might be helpful if someone pointed out why it has marks on the side.

Understanding exposure is roughly about as complicated as understanding how to use a measuring cup.

In simple terms the amount of light outside is considerably more than the amount of light inside.

You can't do much about the amount of light outside... the Sun is lighting that up and we can't control the Sun.

We CAN, however, control the light inside the house. We can either add more light until the amount of light inside is not so much dimmer than the amount of light outside (and this would be a more traditional approach before the age of digital photography) -OR- we can take advantage of the fact that computers can merge the data from two or more images to create one final image. HDR (high dynamic range) is a fancy name for a simple idea... shoot the exposure as if you only care about how well the exposure looks outside the window -- and don't care about the interior. Then shoot another exposure as if you only care about the interior look -- and don't care about the look out the window.

Now imagine you could take a pair of scissors and cut out the "windows" from the first picture and tape them onto the windows in the second exposure... so you have a nicely exposed interior AND a nicely exposed exterior.

You don't need scissors. The computer will do it for you.

The Canon T4i has a built-in HDR mode (in fact, it has two of them). It will work best if you use a tripod that way the scene in all the images will precisely align. HDR software can compensate for some movement (but it has to crop the images) and if you don't have a tripod I am told the "nighttime" HDR mode works a bit better (it's better about aligning the images.)

Here are two examples. This first example is the more traditional method .... I exposed for the light through the window (ignoring the interior) but I used a flash to boost the light on the interior. I did not want the interior to be as bright as the outside light (otherwise it wont look natural) so I told the camera to slightly de-power the flash. I think I shot this using "-1" to the "Flash Exposure Compensation" control (FEC). Again, I wanted this to be a bit dark... I could have changed the flash power to brighten it up.

This is a blacksmith's shop:

This next example uses the HDR technique. This is actually the in-camera HDR from my Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. Take a look at the windows on the right side of the room and you can see the outside isn't over-exposed -- but would have been in a normal single image.

BTW, this happens to be the upstairs floor of Thomas Edison's Menlo Park lab.

So two options:

1). Boost interior light to more closely match the outdoor light (usually allowing the interior to be slightly darker) and...

2). Use HDR by taking multiple exposures and merge them using either in-camera HDR or computer software.

Several programs have the ability to do HDR processing (including Photoshop). A program called "PhotoMatix" is purpose-built just to do HDR, it's very good, very easy to use, and many people feel that it also produces some of the best results (it can do anything from a "natural" look... to highly surreal results (more artsy and less natural).

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

diverhank — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:20:47 GMT

@Mr_Fusion wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
"You need to get out more."

Absolutely! It is silly to think anybody can not master HDR in a short time. Now it is so easy. Whether you use in-camera or post edit.
It is only easy if you know and understand it. Expecting others not intimate with the physics of photography to understand it is naive. Not everyone is as intelligent as you or has the same aptitude towards this. And you should understand the aptitude aspect as that is the easiest factor to understand.

The OP obviously knows extremely little about the physics behind photography. Starting off at an advanced level will obviously leave them confused and not understanding the solution. Give the OP credit for wanting to know how to fix it. Giving them a solution above their capabilities doesn't help them.

Suggesting "You need to get out more" is condescending and fits neatly with a pompous attitude.

Mr. Fusion, I hate to say this but you appear to be the one with the most pompous attitude in this thread. It was the OP that brought up the possibility of blending the exposures which showed a decent level of understanding. Meanwhile, you are the one, in more than one post, that is saying "the OP obviously knows extremely little". I didn't get that reading the OP's post...I find your condescension very offensive...especially based on your posts, your photography knowledge may pale in comparison in many posters you're arguing with. I usually don't confront people publicly and I will apologize to you up front. This will be the last "personal" post I'll share.

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

kvbarkley — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 23:29:42 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:

You can't do much about the amount of light outside... the Sun is lighting that up and we can't control the Sun.

You can wait for an eclipse! 8^)

Re: Interior shots, but view out windows washed out/over exposed

ebiggs1 — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 02:33:10 GMT