topic Re: Just ordered a 5d4 in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Just ordered a 5d4

ScottyP — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 13:54:09 GMT

The two big camera houses were in a pre-black-Friday price war and I finally couldn't resist. In 5-7 business days I will have the camera, a battery grip, an extra Canon battery, a Pixima printer, a couple reams of photo paper, a 64gig SD card.

Now of course this forces me into a distasteful dilemma. I have Lightroom 5, and never upgraded to version 5.7. I don't want to fiddle around with a separate RAW converter or TIFF files or anything. I either need to buy the soon-to-be-discontinued LR 6 stand-alone or else I need the stupid Adobe everything subscription just to rent Lightroom, since I don't use a single one of the other programs in their bundle.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

TCampbell — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 14:43:44 GMT

Congrats on the new camera. I think you’re going to love it.

As for Adobe... they have two bundles. The “everything” bundle is (if I recall) $50/month. But the “photography” bundle is $10/month (minimum 1 year terms) and includes Lightroom and Photoshop on your computers as well as Lightroom mobile for phone/iPad, etc. Although they’ve had a bit of a name change so now the good version of Lightroom is called “Lightroom Classic CC” and the program they used to call “Lightroom Mobile” for tablets is now called “Lightroom CC” and they have a desktop version of it as well.

Honestly I looked at what they now call “Lightroom CC” and I think Apple’s “Photos” app is serious competition (and Apple “Photos” is free). This isn’t to say how great I think Photos is... it’s to say how limited I think Lightroom CC is. I cannot imagine any serious photographer using it. “Lightroom Classic CC” is what everyone is using.

A company called Serif makes a Photoshop alternative called Affinity Photo ($50 one-time ... not a subscription) and it’s really good. I first saw it demo’d In one of Apple’s product launches for the iPad (oh yeah... it runs on Windows, Mac, and iPad) and it knows how to read and write .PSD files.

Now if only they’d come out with digital asset management software so I wouldn’t need to use Lightroom.

One deliberate choice I made (after reading an article about it) was to NOT let Lightroom convert my RAW files into .DNG files. The photographer who wrote the article did that and regretted it... said it basically trapped him in the Adobe world because while .DNG is available to anyone, it’s also a roach-motel (it’s a one-way conversion... you go “in”.... you never get them back “out”). This means if an Adobe alternative comes along and you’d like to jump ship... you can’t really bring your .DNG files with you. So I configured Lightroom to leave my .CR2 files as .CR2 files and that means I can import them into anything that supports my cameras.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

shadowsports — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 14:47:44 GMT

Scotty,

Congrats! Good move. You're like me, not afraid to buy Sigma or Tamron lenses. I like Canon in the majority of cases, but there are some great lenses out there.

Try Canon DPP. Its free. I'm learning to work with it because I don't want to "rent" software either like Robert always says.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

jrhoffman75 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 14:53:06 GMT

Luminar 2018 is looking like a good option to Lightroom. Its releasing a DAM system in 2018.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ScottyP — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 14:58:25 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
Congrats on the new camera. I think you’re going to love it.

One deliberate choice I made (after reading an article about it) was to NOT let Lightroom convert my RAW files into .DNG files. The photographer who wrote the article did that and regretted it... said it basically trapped him in the Adobe world because while .DNG is available to anyone, it’s also a roach-motel (it’s a one-way conversion... you go “in”.... you never get them back “out”). This means if an Adobe alternative comes along and you’d like to jump ship... you can’t really bring your .DNG files with you. So I configured Lightroom to leave my .CR2 files as .CR2 files and that means I can import them into anything that supports my cameras.

Huh. I didn't know that. Has Lightroom 3 and Lightroom 5 been doing that dng conversion to me or is that a new nefarious Adobe atrocity in their subscription/cloud model?

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ScottyP — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:04:15 GMT

Maybe I need to look at DPP again. Part of the reason I got into Canon was the fact Consumer Reports said Canon's processing program (DPP) was a lot better than whatever you get with Nikon, etc. But then I opened the program about twice and never used it for anything.

I know now it won't help organize my images but would it process photos as well as Lightroom?

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

TCampbell — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:05:30 GMT

When you're looking at the "import" panel, there are options at the top to "Copy as DNG" vs. "Copy" (there's also "Move" and "Add") I do "Copy" but not "Copy as DNG" (which converts your RAW files into Adobe .DNG files).

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

diverhank — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:05:36 GMT

Check into Luminar 2018. From what I heard it's a replacement for both PS and LR. There's a black Friday going on right now ($69)...I haven't used it (I'm sticking with Photoshop) but heard all good things about...you will get to keep of the Photoshop plugins you have (compatible with Luminar)

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:29:43 GMT

Be forewarned, the Pixma Pro-100 is big and heavy. It weighs in at over 40 pounds, and you need to allow for over an extra foot of space on the front side for the printed output.

I use it as a temporary desk. Seriously, it is a great printer.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 16:33:51 GMT

Well Scotty you have just turned me green with envy. If I were to buy a new camera today it would be the 5D Mk IV. What's not to love?

Software? I hope you d/l the DxO Optics 11 for free? Another solution is to get a copy of Photoshop CS6. The last stand alone from Adobe. It works seamlessly with either DxO Optics or DPP4. CS6 (PS) has Bridge included for free. Bridge does most all the file control, ratings, etc, that LR does. Of course you can try to find a stand alone version of LR6. It has 5D4 support, but I am not sure it supports dual pixel.

Now one big reason to have CS6 is you also got the Pixma Pro 100 printer? One fantastic printer. I have had 6 Pixma large format printers. I am currently down to just one Pro 100. The Pro 100 is one of the reasons I suggested you check into CS6. Photoshop has more printer control, easier to get to than any of the other programs. It makes printing and life much less frustrating. With the Pro 100 you will need to learn ICC profiles which work seamlessly with PS. Mandatory you learn ICC profiles.

BTW, one more tip, have printing sessions in favore of a print here and a print there. Each time you print, turn the machine off and back on, the Pro 100 mixes the ink and cleans the nozzles. If you do a lot of single printing you will use a lot more ink.

One more, the Pro 100 is not a general office printer. Don't try to make it one. It is a photo printer.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 16:57:54 GMT

Tim said,

"...I looked at what they now call “Lightroom CC” and I think Apple’s “Photos” app is serious competition (and Apple “Photos” is free). This isn’t to say how great I think Photos is... it’s to say how limited I think Lightroom CC is. I cannot imagine any serious photographer using it."

I don't really understand this statement. "I cannot imagine any serious photographer using it." Any serious photographer that doesn't use LR CC Classic or will use Photos? There is no top quality, pro shop, I have ever been in, been in a lot, that didn't use Adobe products. PS and/or LR. These two are the standards of the industry.

“Lightroom Classic CC” is what everyone is using." Absolutely, like it or not. It's a fact. If I were still in full time business I would be right there. The ability of LR CC is blurring the line between it and PS CC. The new range mask for instance. The need to go to PS is becoming less and less. Most of the time LR CC is going to produce a fine finished print. I wonder how far Adobe wants to take that?

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

jrhoffman75 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 18:51:09 GMT

Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC are two entirely different programs. Thanks to Adobe for confusion. Lightroom CC is not a pro tool.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ScottyP — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 19:48:54 GMT

If they had a Lightroom-only subscription it wouldn't be so bad. Instead of $120/year for LR + PS+ 4 other things why can't I just give them $60/year and they can keep all the other stuff?

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

jrhoffman75 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 20:05:29 GMT

Because it isn’t the cost as much as the aversion some people have to the subscription model. “I don’t rent software “ mantra.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

TCampbell — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 20:11:09 GMT

Ernie, they introduced a new product with the old name and the old product got another name.

Lightroom CC is now called Lightroom Classic CC

Lightroom Mobile is now called Lightroom CC

There’s also a version of “Lightroom CC” for use on desktop/laptop — but that’s not to be confused with “Lightroom Classic CC”

There were a lot of comments about their whole renaming and the confusion it created.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 20:49:38 GMT

Oh, I did not understand correctly. Getting more common these days.

You didn't mean pros were avoiding LR altogether. You just meant the new LR CC. Yeah it is pretty much a waste of time. But the new LR CC Classic is very good. It has some good new features and it is way faster. It will still be King of the Hill and rule the industry. I just wish I needed it. I don't !

Truth of the matter everybody compares to PS or LR. No matter what they claim it always ends up with them saying, "It's almost as good as LR/PS." "Does almost as much as LR/PS." "I can do everything that LR/PS does except ...x..."

Now guys that 'hobby' at photography can get by with almost. And they can say, "I don't rent software." But when your job, your livelihood is on the line, you don't want the one that is almost as good.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 21:17:36 GMT

@ScottyP wrote:
If they had a Lightroom-only subscription it wouldn't be so bad. Instead of $120/year for LR + PS+ 4 other things why can't I just give them $60/year and they can keep all the other stuff?

AFAIK, the “new” Lightroom CC product is available by itself through a subscription. I am shopping, actually keeping an open eye and just observing, for future alternatives.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

jrhoffman75 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 21:57:56 GMT

Lightroom CC is currently a limited capability product.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

StanNH — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 22:17:43 GMT

“Luminar 2018 is looking like a good option to Lightroom. Its releasing a DAM system in 2018.
John Hoffman
Conway, NH”

I just got the Luminar 2018 download a couple of days ago. I'm using an iMac and the installation went well, and it did set up as a Photos extension. My initial reaction is that it is a flexible and potent editing app, with tons of presets as well as a very complete editing feature set. It's also a lot of fun to use. It has any easy layers and masks function, and a variety of brushes and clone/touch up tools.

There have been reports of some issues with the Windows version, and some minor bugs even with the Mac one. I haven’t had any problems yet so, so far all is well. It seems like quite the bargain for its $59 price.

Re: Just ordered a 5d4

ScottyP — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 23:24:43 GMT

Adobe let me upgrade from LR5 to LR6 for $79.00 so I did. I figure that buys me years of use as I don't see myself pawning the 5d4 when 5d5 comes out, and my lens collection is fairly complete now.

Maybe Adobe's competition will continue to improve in the interim and either get my next bit of business or else pressure Adobe into offering LR alone.