topic Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Mpls_Funk — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:43:10 GMT

Hi all,

Brand new to the forum. Looking forward to learn from all of you. I'm looking for some advice, and I'm sure this is hot debate!

I have been using a T2i for several years. It was my first DSLR. I mainly use it with the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 and the Canon 55-250 IS (first version), and sometimes the "nifty fifty." The majority of my pictures are of our kids playing sports. I have two girls playing volleyball (indoors) and a son playing lacrosse (usually outdoors, but sometimes indoors). Obviously the indoor sports is a bit of a challenge. I typically have to shoot ISO 1600 or 3200 with shutter speeds ~1/160 to maybe 1/320 if I'm lucky. I get "decent" results. Meaning, most of the other parents are impressed with the pictures. And sure, they are a lot better than in iPhone.

However, I am noticing that I'm missing more shots. I pretty much have to guess at the timing for VB since my burst rate is only 3 fps and that's too slow. So I do my best to guess when the ball will impact or whatever. Sometimes I get lucky. I also still get some motion blur as 1/250 just isn't fast enough in several instances. I also find the camera just doesn't focus fast enough in some cases.

So, I'm looking to upgrade. I orginally had my sights on the 7D mk ii, primarily due to it's great 10 fps. It is also just a better built camera and has better image quality and much better focusing than my T2i. But then I started researching the 80D. From what I read, it probably has even better image quality than the 7D mk ii, but does not have as fast of burst rate (7 fps) and the autofocus system probably isn't as good as the 7D mk ii.

Keep this in perspective - I am not a professional! I am not selling any of my pictures. They are already good enough to impress most of the other parents and the kids. I have never done video with my camera. That's not to say I never will, but, I probably won't. I do like to take pictures of nature...landscapes, trees, leaves, water falls, etc.

So - what camera should i upgrade to? I'm wondering, since I'm not professional, will I notice the improved focus system of the 7D mk ii over the 80D? Is it that much better? If not, then is the only advantage of the 7D mk ii that of the faster burst rate? And if I then say I can live with the 7-8 fps of the 80D, but get cleaner images both now and when doing nature stuff...is that the right move? Or, in reality, is the image quality of the 80D not that much better than the 7D? so then, I should opt for the faster burst and better focus system?

Hope this make sense - I look forward to your suggestions. Seems like I can get either camera used for about the same price right now. I also plan to get the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 VC to replace my Canon 55-250. I might also get the Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC to replace my Tamron 15-50 f/2.8.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Waddizzle — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:14:11 GMT

Quick word about your lenses. Buy Canon lenses, whenever possible. The only non-Canon lenses that I have are lenses that have no direct Canon equivalent. Lenses that fill holes in Canon’s lineup, like a Sigma 150-600mm “C” super telephoto, for example.

I also prefer Canon lenses, simply because Canon’s DPP, Digital Photo Professional, software can perform lens correction only with Canon lenses. I prefer to shoot RAW, which allows greater flexibility in processing image, particularly in the are of noise reduction. If you shoot JPEGs, you can download lens correction to your camera. But, once again, you can only do this for Canon lenses, not third party lense.

As for your lens upgrade ideas, I like the idea upgrading the 55-250mm to a constant f/2.8 aperture, medium telephoto lens. Almost any lens in that range sold today will focus faster than the 55-250mm. Having a 70-200mm f/2.8 aperture makes it even better for shooting sports. If there was one “all-purpose sports lens”, then a 70-200mm zoom gets my vote. I would prefer any of the Canon 70-200mm over a third party 70-200mm zoom, though.

But, I think upgrading a 17-50 f/2.8 lens to 24-70 f/2.8 lens seems like you’re approaching the point of diminishing returns to me. Yes, it fills a gap between 55 and 70mm, but how often do you shoot in that range? How often do you shoot at the 17mm end of the zoom range? A 24-70 would be duplicating most of the range of your 17-55mm. I prefer that my zoom lenses have some overlap, so that i don’t get “stuck between clubs”. But, not in this case, not unless there was some problem with the 17-55mm lens.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Waddizzle — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:50:48 GMT

The choice between the 80D and 7D Mark II can be a hard one. It really depends upon YOUR needs, not someone else’s priorities and preferences. The 80D is the “best buy” in the current Canon lineup, period. The 7D Mark II has long been regarded as far, and away, the best APS-C body in Canon’s lineup, period.

When it comes to AF performance, the question becomes which is better at tracking subjects in AI Servo mode. When the subjects are humans, the 80D is VERY good at tracking subjects. It is at least as good as the 7D2, and may be better in some ways. The 7D2 has only one AF point that is sensitive at f/8, while the 80D has 27 f/8 AF points. The more sensitive AF points become important in low light shooting situations.

The 7D2 has 65 AF points, to the 45 AF points in the 80D. The 7D2 many be better at tracking narrow profile subjects like birds in flight, but the 80D is just as good at tracking much larger humans. The frame rate differences are almost negligible for most sports, IMHO. It would make a difference to a professional, but not to the average consumer, or even many photo enthusiasts.

The 7D2 has a little bigger, heavier body than an 80D. While both have weather sealing, the 7D2 has a better shell, and better weather sealing. The 7D2 offers a built-in GPS, so that professionals can document where they are shooting, without going the extra step of adding it to their photos, which I rarely used because I am not a spelunker. The 80D offers built-in Wi-Fi, which i rarely used, because I shoot mainly RAW. My son loves the Wi-Fi, because he uses the 80D as a substitute for the camera in his smart phone, an iPhone 6s.

If video is a potential interest, then the 80D is the clear choice on this front. While both bodies use “Dual Pixel CMOS” sensors, the 80D has a more advanced version, which allows the camera to auto-focus when shooting video MUCH faster and more accurately than previous Canon bodies. While the 7D2 can shoot video, it is not one of the camera’s strongest feateries.

The 7D2 offers dual card slots, including a slot for CF cards, which can be faster than SD cards. The faster slot plays a role in the higher 7D2 having a higher frame rate. Having the ability to automatically backup shots to a second card is more desireable to a professional than the average consumer.

Overall, pound for pound, the 7D2 is probably the better choice for professional photographers. The 80D is probably the better choice for consumers, especially if you have any potential interests in shooting video. My choice is the 80D, which I think has slightly better performance at ISO settings between 1600-6400. However, both camera bodies benefit from shooting RAW, and post processing the images. The 80D just produces better looking JPEGs, IMHO.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ScottyP — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:38:44 GMT

I was surprised to see the price difference is only $250.00 though you can find 80d discounted another 100 bucks.

I dont see weathersealing applying much to your uses and in any event your lenses are not weathersealed so that would at least partially defeat the point of body weathersealing.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

StanNH — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:29:00 GMT

I upgraded from my T6S to the 80D because of the really fine deals offered at Canon's online refurb store. I had already concluded that the 80D offered me all I needed for the types of photography I do, and when they listed the 80D with an 18-55mm STM kit lens for $779.95, that clinched the deal for me.

I do some BIF, and lots of wildlife photography, and have been very happy with this camera's overall performance. I shoot mostly RAW, but have been pleasantly surprised at how good OOC jpeg files look. Size and weight are about as big as I want to carry, so the 80D, for me, has been a very good choice.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Mpls_Funk — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:47:36 GMT

Thank you all for this great information so far! Couple comments to your comments. First, the WiFi doesn't do anything for me (from what I hear, it allows you to transfer files to your mobile device...these files are too big. I have not heard that you can transfer files to your computer/NAS drive...that I might use...but still not a big deal to me). The GPS stuff is of no value to me either. The weather sealing...well, nice I guess. But truely, I doubt I would ever be out in the rain or blowing dust. If it means the camera is just plain more robust and might last longer, that's fine...but again, I'm not a professional and if it's raining, the camera stays inside.

Your comments about the AF systems was very helpful. Yes, I am tracking humans. Whether it's my kids dancing or playing, or bigger kids playing sports. I am not typically tracking birds in the sky (although a random shot of an eagle is always cool, it's the rare exception for me). So, if you are saying the AF system on the 80D is as good or better than the 7D2, that means a lot to me.

The touchscreen - my gut says I wouldn't use it much. However, nearly every review I read says the same thing - that they didn't think they would use/like it, and then find out how much they do. Is this a deal-breaker...probably not. If I end up chosing the 80D, then I guess it's a bonus.

Today I don't do much (any?) video...I can appreciate that the flip-out screen (and touchscreen) would be great for that - but I just don't do it today anyway.

Of course there is always just wanting to take nice portraits, or landscape shots too. Which camera would give me the better image quality for that?

Your comment that the 80D gives better jpeg is interesting. Honestly (don't hate me), I shoot 99% jpeg. Why? I just can't imagine how much time it woudl take to go through 100-300 pictures from a tournament and open each one and make adjustments and then save as jpeg to be able to share them with friends. It already takes me quite a bit of time to go through them, delete the blurry/bad ones, and do some simple cropping of others. Maybe I'm just dumb and there are easy ways and I just need to learn? There is also the considerable amount of storage space required...

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

StanNH — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:09:39 GMT

“ Honestly (don't hate me), I shoot 99% jpeg. Why? I just can't imagine how much time it woudl take to go through 100-300 pictures from a tournament and open each one and make adjustments and then save as jpeg to be able to share them with friends. It already takes me quite a bit of time to go through them, delete the blurry/bad ones, and do some simple cropping of others. Maybe I'm just dumb and there are easy ways and I just need to learn? There is also the considerable amount of storage space required...”

RAW versus JPEG is an endless discussion. I shoot JPEG when I want quick and easy images that will likely wind up on FaceBook or as smaller prints. However, you can recover more detail in blown highlights with the additional data in a RAW file. These larger files also seem to hold up better to cropping and retention of fine detail is also better. The processing can be simple or elaborate, and I often find that nothing more than simple adjustments in a native program like Apple's Photo is fine. I also use Polarr, as well as DPP, and you really can set your own level of complexity as far as how far you want to go with post processing. Having said that, Canon does very well with its in camera JPEG processing and they really can look great. I find I do better if I reduce sharpening in camera, because Canon's sharpening can produce halo effects if overdone. I also back off on contrast to help preserve highlights. Then, you can adjust sharpening and light in pp to suit your own taste.

There is no right or wrong way ... just what works for you and gives you the results you're looking for.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Waddizzle — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:45:34 GMT

Which is better, 80D or 7D2, at taking portraits and landscape shots?

It’s a tie, for the vast majority of those shooting scenarios. For arguments’ sake I am going to say at least 90% of the time, you would not tell a difference. Landscapes, without any people moving around, are quite easy to do, but deceptively difficult to do well.

However, portraits can be a different story. There are just as many ways to shoot portraits as there are grains of sand on a beach. Both camera bodies can shoot still subjects very well. When it comes to portraits, the biggest differences will come down to how much available light do you have. IMHO, the newer 80D bests the older 7D2, when it comes to noise.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ebiggs1 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:39:43 GMT

"RAW versus JPEG is an endless discussion."

Yes it is and the only answer is, if you are satisfied with what you are getting from your jpg, than stay with them. If you want more, than go Raw. The truth of the matter is, Raw can make better photos but not necessarily. Do you prefer to do your settings in the camera or in post? That is the question.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ebiggs1 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:43:09 GMT

"... what camera should i upgrade to?"

The only answer to your question on either the 80D or the 7D Mk II is build. Do you want a pro-level built camera or are you OK with an enthusiasts camera with less build quality. Either is going to make gorgeous pictures.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ebiggs1 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:54:44 GMT

"Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 and the Canon 55-250 IS (first version), and sometimes the "nifty fifty." "

If you are truly serious about upgrading, I would consider your lens inventory. IMHO, none of these is worthy of a 7D MkII.

Instead of Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 get the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens.

The Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Lens is a much better lens than the 1st version however in your case I would buy the Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM Lens.

Instead of the Canon 55-250 IS (first version) get the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Contemporary Lens for Canon EF.

Yeah, I know that a lot of money. If it is too much right off get the Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM Lens first. On a 7D Mk II or 80D it will be very difficult to top it with any camera/lens combo. Plus you can sell your old lenses but don't expect too much for them.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Mpls_Funk — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:45:50 GMT

Hi ebiggs1,

Thanks for the suggestions. I agree that my lenses need upgrading as well! My plan was to upgrade my 55-250 with a Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 VC model. I realize as another poster said, that it would be best to stick with Canon, but it's hard for me to justify the price difference. I can get a nice used Gen 1 of the Tamron for $700 as compared to the Canon for $1500+? Just seems like the right decision for me.

Then, I would likely look to upgrade my Tamron 17-50 (I thought it was a good lense when I purchased it...now learning that it does not get great reviews) to the Tamron 24-70 f/2.8. These seems to get MUCH better reviews than mine. I rarely use the 17mm end of my lens, and then the 24-70 would match up to the 70-200 range.

Thanks for the thought on the 35mm...I feel like that won't give me enough reach. I kinda like my 50mm (even if it's not the best quality). I know they have better 50mm versions out there.

So - I think I'm leaning toward the 80D at this point...

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 11:07:49 GMT

Mpls_Funk,

Your images will never be better than the quality of your lens. Your current lenses would have been great 10-15 years ago, and could use an upgrade. An 80D, or 7D2, would only reveal the shortcoming in your current lenses, especially if you switch to shooting RAW, and post processing your shots.

BTW, if want to shoot with Tamron lenses, then I suggest that you consider buying an Adobe Lightroom, or Photoshop, subscription. The free software that comes with the camera, Canon’s DPP4, does not perform lens correction on non-Canon lenses.

I think you have yet to experience the difference between a pretty decent lens, and VERY good lens. Tamron makes some pretty good lenses. Canon makes some VERY good lenses. The EF 35mm f/2 IS STM is a VERY good lens. It could be one of the sharpest lenses Canon sells. I think it is one of the rare gems in Canon’s lineup, especially if you shoot RAW, and use lens correction in Canon Digital Photo Professional software. See below,

I can guarantee you that the EF 35 f/2 IS USM will make you retire your current EF 50mm f/2.8 II lens.

I think any of the Canon 70-200mm lenses is better than the Tamron 70-200mm you listed. The top-of-the lens Canon 70-200mm is very sharp, and one lens every owner says. Is worth every penny. It is! It has image quality similar to the above photo. And, the 70-200mm baby brothers are every bit as good under most shooting scenarios.

Finally, you are much better off spending money on one VERY good lens, than two or three pretty decent lenses.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ebiggs1 — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:36:55 GMT

" My plan was to upgrade ... with a Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 VC model." (and) " ... the Tamron 24-70 f/2.8."

I have both. I have had them for some time now and have used them extensively. They are not Canon "L" but they are very good. If I couldn't have the Canon "L" versions the Tamron would be it. But I do have the Canon "L" and let me say nothing, no where seconds them. They truly are the best there is. IMHO, I would buy a used Canon "L" if that meant I could have it over any other lens made.

But you must do as you see fit.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

gdonoghue20 — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:42:07 GMT

7D MK ll hands down. Great for sports or wildlife shooting. I gave mine to my nephew regrettably though. I also have a 5d MK IV which I use. Considering the new 6D Mark ll as a back up because it is full frame. Problem is it does not take CF cards, which is why I have not purchase one.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

shadowsports — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 22:00:37 GMT

Like others, my vote would be for the 7D2. Dual digic's and better 65 point AF. Given your fast action requirements, I think you will appreciate and benefit more from the faster FPS and better AF tracking, and will not miss the 4 less MP on the 7D2 from a IQ perspective.

Also agree that lenses do matter. I own 2 non canon lenses, one APS-C and one FF. I love them both and have zero regrets. But taking platform and standardization into consideration, I'm going to purchase Canon going forward. This is because I use DPP for post processing and don't want to buy a Tamron Tap connector and Sigma USB dock... plus manage 2 software installs on top of DPP not supporting 3rd party lens data. Or I add Lightroom and be on my way. Sticking with one makes life easier IMO.

Cheers

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Mpls_Funk — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:48:21 GMT

Hi all,

thanks again for all of your input. I am still struggling on the camera decision to be honest. Uggg.

Regarding lenses - I have no doubt that the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II is the best. However, even used it's $1700 or so. I considered getting the Canon 70-200 f/4 IS (probably can get used for $700 or so), but I really think the extra 2.8 light will be beneficial in my application (indoor sports). So then you look at the 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS, but most people think you really need IS, especially if much of the shooting will be at the farther end of the range. So that quickly argues into the 70-200 f/2.8 IS which is really expensive. I feel like I can get the Tamron 2.8 VC for far less money and be better off than any of the other 3 Canons (get the extra stop at 2.8 over the Canon f/4 IS, and get IS over the Canon 2.8 non IS). Is it as good as the Canon, no. But, I feel like this would be a huge upgrade over my current Canon 55-250 IS (original version) until I can save more for the "best" Canon version. Make sense? Or am I off-base?

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

Waddizzle — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 22:48:16 GMT

@Mpls_Funk wrote:
Hi all,

thanks again for all of your input. I am still struggling on the camera decision to be honest. Uggg.

Regarding lenses - I have no doubt that the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II is the best. However, even used it's $1700 or so. I considered getting the Canon 70-200 f/4 IS (probably can get used for $700 or so), but I really think the extra 2.8 light will be beneficial in my application (indoor sports). So then you look at the 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS, but most people think you really need IS, especially if much of the shooting will be at the farther end of the range. So that quickly argues into the 70-200 f/2.8 IS which is really expensive. I feel like I can get the Tamron 2.8 VC for far less money and be better off than any of the other 3 Canons (get the extra stop at 2.8 over the Canon f/4 IS, and get IS over the Canon 2.8 non IS). Is it as good as the Canon, no. But, I feel like this would be a huge upgrade over my current Canon 55-250 IS (original version) until I can save more for the "best" Canon version. Make sense? Or am I off-base?

Like I’ve said, any of the Canon 70-200mm lenses is better than the Tamron f/2.8. Of course, the choice is yours.

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 06:18:57 GMT

"I feel like I can get the Tamron 2.8 VC for far less money and be better off ..."

The flat out truth of the matter? 90% of the time you will not be able to tell the difference. A considerable expense of the Canon L lenses is build. The Tamron simply isn't built as well. If you don't need that part, then the Tammy will serve you nearly as well.

"...get the extra stop at 2.8 over the Canon f/4..."

You said it. It is just one stop. Think about it. Not a deal breaker or maker is it?

Re: Help me pick 80D vs 7D mk ii

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 06:25:30 GMT

"... I add Lightroom and be on my way. Sticking with one makes life easier IMO."

Yes, I suppose it does but that is impossible depending on how involved you are in to photography. Adding Lightroom or better use it instead of DPP has more benefits than simply lens correction. And adding Photoshop to LR has even more potential. But in the end it is how far you want to go.

Myself, I currently use five post editing software packages. DPP as a general working tool is not one of them.