topic Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:40:42 GMT

First let me familiarize you with my back ground a bit. I have enjoyed photography off and on for some time. However, my previous camera was a 2003 Canon 10D. I really decided to take a bit of a step up when purchasing a new 1D X MKII, the above listed lense as well an EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM lense. I purchased a nice gimble, a shoulder rig, 4 large C-Fast cards, extra batteries, etc...

The 4K 60 FPS videos are spectacular through this setup (could do without the Motion JPEG Codec for sure), and the functionality is a breeze.

But I am far more interested in the still photography side of my Canon 1D X MKII and lenses. I have read the ebtire manual several times and the on-line available AF setup guide from Canon. My camera and both lenses, as well as my older Canon lenses, have no prblems when auto focusing on STILL objects, but as soon as there is movement such as a large water bird flying by my position, then I cannot get this camera to focus AT ALL. I have no issues when maintaining the bird (as an example) in the focus area of the lense, then activating the back button focus while depressing the photo button. Even at 14 frames per second I end up with zero shots in focus! I have tried almost every AF area selection mode and all 6 of the Focus Cases along with everything else that a very inexperienced novice such as I can think of. I really hope that I am simply missing something that someone here can help me uncover. I am so frustrated at this point that I am willing to pay someone who owns a similar setup to walk me through their 1D X MKII setup to hopefully get to the bottom of my issue. Unfortunately I cannot find anyone in my area and we no longer have any camera shops around.

Thank you very much for you help and and understanding in advance.

Lance A.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

cicopo — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:56:01 GMT

Have you set the AF to AI Servo? You use that setting plus a half press of the shutter button (or preess the rear AF button) to start & to continue tracking the moving target. This allows the AF algorithm to calculate where your AF needs to be thinking the target is moving in relation to current position.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:31:38 GMT

First, Thank you very much for your help. Yes I have the AF set to AI Servo and I have set the AF-ON back button to perform focus. I have disables the shutter buttons focus ability. So, I first focus on my subjest, usually just prior to movement, (mostly wld life so far), by depressing and holding down the back button. Wnen the large bird begins to take off, I then press the shutter down and follow the animal with the lense keeping the bird as centered as possible. I keep the back focus buttun depressed during the entire shoot. As of now not one single shot has been close to in-focus.

Lance A.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

cicopo — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:44:50 GMT

I shoot action with lesser cameras than yours but I never liked back button focus so why not abandon it for now & assign AF to the shutter button. Less to remember to do & easier (for me) to start shooting at the critical time. What shutter speed are you using & how well can you pan? IS switch in mode 2 or 3 on the lens? (I don't have it but have the older version). Are you trying to zoom in or out as you shoot? Also based on my bodies there should be a custom menu feature that can be set to shoot without focus lock which I do not recommend.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 02:00:28 GMT

Yea, I think that if your camera is newer and more advanced than my old Canon 10D, then you are way ahead of me regardless of my new camera. I went to back button focus to try and make things easier, but I agree with your opinion and will undo what I have done. However, I had the moving object focus issue prior to going to back button focus. No, I am not zooming while shooting. I am not that capable yet. I am not versed in the focus lock yet.

Lance A

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

Waddizzle — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:22:12 GMT

@LanceA wrote:
Yea, I think that if your camera is newer and more advanced than my old Canon 10D, then you are way ahead of me regardless of my new camera. I went to back button focus to try and make things easier, but I agree with your opinion and will undo what I have done. However, I had the moving object focus issue prior to going to back button focus. No, I am not zooming while shooting. I am not that capable yet. I am not versed in the focus lock yet.

Lance A

I think part of your problem could be lens settings. I used to get OOF shots until I began paying attention to the focusing range switch. The IS mode has less impact than focusing range.

You also need a very fast shutter speed, at least 1/2000, to capture birds-in-flight. Don't be afraid to raise the ISO, either.

Ai Servo takes some practice to use well. Try taking a few shots in One Shot mode, and rely on DOF. Separate the camera from the lens, to see which is the problem. I think it is as simple as lens settings. One Shot mode should prove it to you.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

jrhoffman75 — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:05:43 GMT

Thats an excellent suite of gear.

Birds in fklight (BIF) is very challenging.There is a difference between motion blur and out of focus; as Wadizzle said you need a fast shutter speed to freeze the motion.

If you are panning to keep bird in frame (which it sounds like you are) be sure to turn off or select the panning mode for Image Stabilization.

Practise on easier subjects. Maybe theres a youth soccer games or even softball where subject motion is slower.

I have found that back button focus (and disabling shutter button focus) is good for situations where you want to achieve and freeze focus at a particlar location, say first base at a ball game, when a player appear and disappear - it stops the camera from refocusing and you just control exposure with shutter button.

When following a moving object combined focus/exposure with shutter button seems best for me.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

ebiggs1 — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:23:46 GMT

Lance,

IMHO, I would start at the very beginning. No BBF and no Ai-Servo. Use One Shot and the normal shutter button. Don't try adding the 'extra helper' buttons until you better understand what is going on. Remember KISS ?

You do need certain settings to help. Like suggested above a higher ISO and a pretty fast SS. Stop the lens down at least one stop, maybe two. Don't start at the long end at first either. Concentrate more on focus than composition for now.

Keep in mind AF stops when you press the shutter button half way in this case. Take several, many, single shots at first. Later, add the high speed frames per second. BIF is one of the more difficult tasks to master so don't worry. It will come with practice.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

Ray-uk — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:56:27 GMT

Rather than practising on BIF or sports, just try sitting at the side of a road and capture the passing traffic.

The cars move in a predictable way and they have lots of detail and sharp edges will show any blur due to camera shake much more than fur or feathers will.

Pick your position well or you might get some funny looks from the drivers.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

TTMartin — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:09:46 GMT

Add me to the list of those that don't use BBF.

If you use BBF you have to keep pressing the back button for continuous focus.

So if you are shooting a sequence of action shots (moving subject) you have to press both the shutter and the back button at the same time.

Instead of BBF, I reprogram the AF ON button to be AF OFF, and leave focus start on the shutter button.

That gives me the ability to press the 'back button' when using AIServo when I need to temporarily suspend focus.

I find that the times I need to suspend focus are a lot less than the times I want continuous focus. So for me BBF would just mean having to press two buttons (back button and shutter button) most of the time. Where having the AF OFF button available just means I occasionally have to press two buttons (back button and shutter button).

As a sports and wildlife photographer I want continuous focus most of the time. I only want to stop focus on rare occasions. So I'm going to have to press two buttons most of the time, so on rare occasions I can remove my thumb and stop focus? Seems silly to me. Why would you want to have to press two buttons most of the time?

Those two are the last of about a sequence of 6.

As Art Morris says, 'when something happens press the shutter button'. I'd rather be able to do that then have to do a two button sequence.

By setting up the AF ON button to AF OFF you don't have to deal with the camera refocusing when you don't want it to as you can simply press the back AF 'OFF' button to stop it from refocusing. Times when I don't want continuous AF like focusing on a bird sitting on a branch through other branches of a tree, those then to be more laid back occurrences. I have the extra time to focus on the bird, either manual focus or slight focus and recompose, while pushing the back AF 'OFF' button.

Two more examples of tracking a bird moving towards the camera.

Glossy Ibis photobomb (near midair collision)*.

Another Great Egret gets photobombed, this time by a Great Blue Heron*

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:32:06 GMT

That is such good advice which I have already began to follow. Back to useing the shutter button the way that it was intended, at least until I gain the experience needed to better work with custom settings.

Thanks a bunch!

Lance A.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:41:41 GMT

I definately considered that, but considering my Florida address, I felt that sitting on the side of the road with a camera and long lens might just get me killed.

I am working on a continuous automatic flight pattern for one of my Drones. My DJI Phantom 4 Pro + has such features and the capability to shoot back at my location with 4K 60 FPS or the same 20 mgp stills as my 1D X MKII. However, I am not so impatient that I cannot wait for some largish water birds to arrive (three acre pond in my back yard), but then I also need lots and lots of practice to get to where the majority of this forum's contributors would consider the basics.

Thanks again, with this type of help and understanding, I will get there.

Lance A.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:53:06 GMT

Thank you very much.

I needed to first understand what "I" was likely doing wrong/not understanding, to at least attain a fair percentage of focused shots with moving subjects. Then at least I will KNOW that it is not faulty equipment and I can move on with my education, for which I could not be more gratefull to this forums' contributors.

Lance A.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

LanceA — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:04:01 GMT

So, I had made a novice/stupid assumtion that allowing this big pro camera to automatically set basic features such as; shutter speed, aperature etc....., would be safe for capturing some moving subject stills, I was wrong. My cameras' shutter speed was set to 1/80. I reset to 1/1000 while at 400mm on moving birds. I have yet to capture a lager subject flying by at a closer range, but I have captured several smaller (Kites) subjects at a bit of distance. Every photo, set to HS, came out clear!

Thanks a bunch for pointing me in the right direction. Oh, I also disabled my lenses' IS for moving shots. I have sooooo much more to learn and understand.

Lance A.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

kvbarkley — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:51:01 GMT

@LanceA wrote:

. Oh, I also disabled my lenses' IS for moving shots.
Lance A.

Unless you are on a tripod you want IS on. What you want is to make sure the IS is in Panning Mode. Some lenses switch automagically, some have an off/IS On/IS Pan setting and some have off/on/horiz pan/vert pan setting.

Though they are usually called modes, and not "pan settings".

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

TTMartin — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:16:52 GMT

@LanceA wrote:

Oh, I also disabled my lenses' IS for moving shots. I have sooooo much more to learn and understand.

Lance A.

For the EF 100-400 L IS II, leave the image stabilization ON, but, use Mode 3 for moving shots.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

ebiggs1 — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:34:02 GMT

"... allowing this big pro camera to automatically set basic features..."

As a rule of thumb, the more advanced and professional camera you choose the less it does for you automatically. That is the way it should be. Keep it basic until you learn and progress and you will be fine.

I am a keep IS 'on' person. However, it is not impossible to shoot very nice shots without IS. In fact the faster your SS the less you need IS. Remember at one time there was no IS on any tele. We did managed in spite of that. Amazing, I know!

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

RobertTheFat — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 19:39:26 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"... allowing this big pro camera to automatically set basic features..."

As a rule of thumb, the more advanced and professional camera you choose the less it does for you automatically. That is the way it should be. Keep it basic until you learn and progress and you will be fine.

I am a keep IS 'on' person. However, it is not impossible to shoot very nice shots without IS. In fact the faster your SS the less you need IS. Remember at one time there was no IS on any tele. We did managed in spite of that. Amazing, I know!

Ernie makes a good point. But the way I'd put it is that the more advanced the camera, the more difference there is between what it can do automatically and what it can do in the hands of a skilled, experienced photographer. The principal difference between a 1DX2 in auto mode and a cell phone is that the former has a better lens and a better sensor. Everything else requires skill and understanding on the part of the user. But you appear to realize that, so I think you're on the right track. You're at least as well equipped as most of us are, so you should fit right into the group, should you elect to do so.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

ebiggs1 — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:04:27 GMT

"...you should fit right into the group, should you elect to do so."

Say, hey! Ditto. Another 1 series guy.

Re: Cannot take ANY focused moving object photos using my new 1D X MKII and my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.

Waddizzle — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:49:24 GMT

@LanceA wrote:
So, I had made a novice/stupid assumtion that allowing this big pro camera to automatically set basic features such as; shutter speed, aperature etc....., would be safe for capturing some moving subject stills, I was wrong. My cameras' shutter speed was set to 1/80. I reset to 1/1000 while at 400mm on moving birds. I have yet to capture a lager subject flying by at a closer range, but I have captured several smaller (Kites) subjects at a bit of distance. Every photo, set to HS, came out clear!

Thanks a bunch for pointing me in the right direction. Oh, I also disabled my lenses' IS for moving shots. I have sooooo much more to learn and understand.

Lance A.

Take note of the focusing distance switch on the lens. It really can make a big difference.

When your shutter speed is pushing 1/2000, or higher, I'm not sure how useful IS can actually be. I would not worry about turning of IS with that combo. I'd worry more about which IS mode to use.

Kites are good subjects to use for practice, and to hone your tracking skills. I find birding is a lot like fishing. You have to find a good time to go to a good spot, and wait it out.