topic Re: Upgrading, any recommendations? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Upgrading, any recommendations?

photocat93 — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 13:49:57 GMT

So, I've been using my little entry-level 450d now for the last 9 years. I prefered to just invest in lenses rather than new bodies and thus far it has served me well.

However, I'm really starting to notice it struggle recently; had some auto focus issues and the quality is really starting to show. I'm also using it for some part-time photography jobs at the moment which has really made the decision to upgrade important.

Any recommendations?

5d mark IV would be a dream but it's a little out of my price range. I've looked at two full frames: the 6d and the 5d mark iii and even looked over the 80d but I can't make a decision.

Before you ask, yes I shoot in manual and yes I have invested in EF lenses.

Thanks! 🙂

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

Waddizzle — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 14:58:27 GMT

The 6D is a wonderful camera body. It is really great in low light situations. The full frame sensor captures images that seem to have lower noise than APS-C sensor bodies. I have found it great for stills, but not as good as other camera bodies with more AF points for tracking subjects in AI Servo mode.

The 5D Mark III is workhorse that is popular among super enthusiasts and professionals alike. It combines low light performance, advanced AF performance, and a full frame sensor into one water and dust resistant camera body.

The 80D is probably the current best buy in the current Canon DSLR lineup. It uses an APS-C sensor, but it has an advanced "Dual Pixel" image sensor that produces low noise images that rival a full frame camera like the 6D. This camera has an AF system that has many features found in Canon's flagship 1D Series. The camera body build is comparable to the 6D, and is not as well sealed as the 5D Mark III.

Another choice you failed to mention, is the 7D Mark II, which is a favorite among bird photographers. It is built like a tank, and incorporates one of the most sophisticated AF systems found in any Canon DSLR. Canon has published a 50+ page instruction manual on just how to use the AF systems.

So, which camera to buy? That depends upon your budget, and what you want to photograph. The 80D is the best buy. The 5DIII is the best all-around performer. The 7DII is the best APS-C sensor body. The 6D is a great entry level, full frame camera body that can capture some really impressive images, especially stills.

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

RobertTheFat — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 22:54:00 GMT

@photocat93 wrote:
So, I've been using my little entry-level 450d now for the last 9 years. I prefered to just invest in lenses rather than new bodies and thus far it has served me well.

However, I'm really starting to notice it struggle recently; had some auto focus issues and the quality is really starting to show. I'm also using it for some part-time photography jobs at the moment which has really made the decision to upgrade important.

Any recommendations?

5d mark IV would be a dream but it's a little out of my price range. I've looked at two full frames: the 6d and the 5d mark iii and even looked over the 80d but I can't make a decision.

Before you ask, yes I shoot in manual and yes I have invested in EF lenses.

Thanks! 🙂

The 5D III started its life at about the same price as the 5D IV. But it's now about $1000 cheaper, which makes it a pretty good value. Maybe even a better value if you can find it refurbished at the Canon store.

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

ebiggs1 — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 14:47:59 GMT

" I've been using my little entry-level 450d now for the last 9 years."

If I woke up this morning and found myself in your shoes, it would be the 7D Mk II all the way. Also I might ask where did I get these shoes?

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

RobertTheFat — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 15:53:18 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
" I've been using my little entry-level 450d now for the last 9 years."

If I woke up this morning and found myself in your shoes, it would be the 7D Mk II all the way. Also I might ask where did I get these shoes?

I almost never argue with Ernie. But I don't altogether agree with him on this one. The 7D2 is a fine camera. My wife has one and gets very good results with it. But for someone who is leaning towards going full-frame, isn't in a position to shell out for a 5D4, and already has a collection of EF lenses, I think the 5D3 may be the better choice.

OTOH. if the choice were between the 7D2 and the 6D, I might go with the 7D2. And I'd certainly prefer the 7D2 over the 80D or any Rebel.

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

ebiggs1 — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 20:23:49 GMT

Robert,

" I think the 5D3 may be the better choice."

I could live with either choice. But I lean towards the 7D Mk II having already owned a 5D Mk III. Small differences that give the 7D2 a slight edge.

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

photocat93 — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 19:20:23 GMT

Wow, this is a great overview. Thanks Waddizzle!
Can’t believe I missed the 7d mark ii!

I guess for me I’m tempted by either the 6d or the 7d Mark II, both of which are more in my ideal price range.

6d for the image quality of the full frame sensor as most of my paid work involves portraits and events. I’ve done some product photos just for a small, local business. Nothing high speed whatsoever.

But on the flip side, I love doing wildlife photography in my spare time where a crop and the focussing would definitely benefit me.

Two completely different types of photography but then I guess it’s not the wildlife that pays the bills!

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

photocat93 — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 19:24:41 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
But I lean towards the 7D Mk II having already owned a 5D Mk III. Small differences that give the 7D2 a slight edge.

Please share 🙂

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

photocat93 — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 19:32:30 GMT

I've heard great things about the 5d mark iii. I guess for me as I do photography mostly part time it's whether I could justify the price for the return I'd get.

...though I haven't completely taken the 5d mark iii off my radar yet! XD

Sound advice though, Robertthefat, thank you!

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:16:40 GMT

"Please share "

OK, I will.

First if the choice is now between the 6D and the 7D Mk II there isn't any doubt. Go 7D Mk II all the way.

Sensor Resolution
20.2 Million 6D
20.2 Million 7D Mk II

Base ISO
ISO 100 6D
ISO 100 7D Mk II

Native ISO Range
ISO 100-16,000 7D Mk II
ISO 64 - 5,600 6D

Continuous Shooting Speed
10FPS 7D Mk II
4.5fps 6D

Buffer Size
31 RAW 7D Mk II
16 RAW 6D

Max Shutter Speed
1/8000 7D Mk II
1/4000 6D

The EOS 7D Mk II is built around a durable magnesium alloy body that has pro level weatherproofing to keep the camera protected in the worst conditions. The EOS 6D body also has a magnesium body like the 7D Mk II but the top plate is polycarbonate.

The 7D Mk II comes with a 65 cross type AF point system. The same system that is used on the 1D X. The Canon 6D has a much less complex AF system. It only has 11 cross type AF points.

A better low light performance is the only spec where the 6D bests the 7D Mk II.

Do not fall in to the crop sensor trap. You will hear guys tell you that you can't shoot certain things with a certain body. That is total BS. The only thing that has any impact on any of this is pixel size. Not sensor size. Consider this;.............

If you notice the 6D and 7D Mk II have the same number of pixels, at 20 mp. The ones on the 6D are going to be larger because they have to cover more real estate. Therefore they can gather more light. If the 7d2 had the same size pixels instead of the same number, it would do as well in low light situations. Of course this is very elementary because newer sensors tend to out preform older ones but it is a general rule. Plus a newer body usually gets better electronics. The 7D Mk II is newer !

The smaller pixels do offer you something in return and that is higher resolution. IMHO, go for the 7D Mk II and don't look back.

How's that for sharing?

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:24:10 GMT

If you were still considering the 5D Mk III the main advantage is the 7D Mk II is way cheaper to buy. That is number one, isn't it?

Most of the other stuff still applies to the 7D Mk II that does vs the 6D but it will be less. The 7D Mk II also has newer features like GPS. It is much faster. Its electronics are several years newer. Like I said the 5D Mk III vs the 7D Mk II, I could be happy with either but I give the edge to the 7D Mk II.

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

Suraj-Sun — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 01:07:28 GMT

Check out the 5D Mark iii

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

photocat93 — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:28:15 GMT

Straight to the point! 😄 Thank you ebiggs1!

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

ScottyP — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 14:43:44 GMT

Picking a camera body is hard if it will be your only camera. It forces you to really decide what matters most to your particular uses, and there will be a tradeoff required.

The 7d2 is a great rugged tank with a super complex autofocus. If my use was hiking and rock climbing, in the rain, and I had a tendency to drop my camera or bang it on rocks I might need that durability and weather sealing. Or if my use was a lot of fast sports outdoors in daylight I might gravitate towards 7d for that. If that was my general shooting style, but I was a couple notches less hard core, I'd probably go for the 80d to save some money for lenses.

If, on the other hand, I was shooting indoor events I would seriously consider going full frame. The 6d on a budget or the 5d3 if I had a bigger budget and also wanted to keep my sports/rock-banging/rain shooting options open.

Low light performance was most key key to me personally, so I went for the 6d and had money left over for good glass. Look at the DXO ratings for the maximum ISO at which each camera gives good image quality:

450d. ISO 692

7d2. ISO 1082

5d3. ISO 2293

6d. ISO 2340

Although DXO can be faulted for its seemingly arbitrary overall rankings, this low light score is pretty straight-forward. You can argue what image quality level equals "good" but at least their number seems to measure the cameras against each other apples to apples on this particular metric.

I got out of crop sensors because cause I felt my shots were unacceptable by ISO 800, and this seems to bear my judgment out. Yes, you can use noise reduction but NR comes at the expense of resolution. As you apply NR you lose resolution, and you already have reduced resolution at higher ISO settings. And yes, you could print a 5x7 or even 8x10 and not see a lot of that loss of quality but the reality is most of us nowadays don't print more than a small small fraction of what we shoot, and when we look at our photos it is not on a small print but on a 30" monitor.

I will say I occasionally find the 6d AF a bit limiting on moving targets. I may look at the 6d2 when it comes out, or possibly a 5d3 or 5d4. Another strategy would be to keep the 6d for most shooting but to pick up an 80d as a second camera for daytime sports, wildlife, etc.

Re: Upgrading, any recommendations?

Waddizzle — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:01:19 GMT

@ScottyP wrote:
Picking a camera body is hard if it will be your only camera. It forces you to really decide what matters most to your particular uses, and there will be a tradeoff required.

The 7d2 is a great rugged tank with a super complex autofocus. If my use was hiking and rock climbing, in the rain, and I had a tendency to drop my camera or bang it on rocks I might need that durability and weather sealing. Or if my use was a lot of fast sports outdoors in daylight I might gravitate towards 7d for that. If that was my general shooting style, but I was a couple notches less hard core, I'd probably go for the 80d to save some money for lenses.

If, on the other hand, I was shooting indoor events I would seriously consider going full frame. The 6d on a budget or the 5d3 if I had a bigger budget and also wanted to keep my sports/rock-banging/rain shooting options open.

Low light performance was most key key to me personally, so I went for the 6d and had money left over for good glass. Look at the DXO ratings for the maximum ISO at which each camera gives good image quality:

450d. ISO 692
7d2. ISO 1082
5d3. ISO 2293
6d. ISO 2340

Although DXO can be faulted for its seemingly arbitrary overall rankings, this low light score is pretty straight-forward. You can argue what image quality level equals "good" but at least their number seems to measure the cameras against each other apples to apples on this particular metric.

I got out of crop sensors because cause I felt my shots were unacceptable by ISO 800, and this seems to bear my judgment out. Yes, you can use noise reduction but NR comes at the expense of resolution. As you apply NR you lose resolution, and you already have reduced resolution at higher ISO settings. And yes, you could print a 5x7 or even 8x10 and not see a lot of that loss of quality but the reality is most of us nowadays don't print more than a small small fraction of what we shoot, and when we look at our photos it is not on a small print but on a 30" monitor.

I will say I occasionally find the 6d AF a bit limiting on moving targets. I may look at the 6d2 when it comes out, or possibly a 5d3 or 5d4. Another strategy would be to keep the 6d for most shooting but to pick up an 80d as a second camera for daytime sports, wildlife, etc.

Interesting. Those DXO numbers seem to agree with my observations of the 80D having less noisy images compared to the 7D2. The 80D is rated by DXO at 1153. BTW, I went for the 6D for similar reasons as ScottyP. The full frame images are on an entirely different level when it comes to noise and details.