topic Re: Why is this happening? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Why is this happening?

Karinia — Mon, 29 May 2017 11:17:23 GMT

Hello,

I was shooting a wedding and then my camera started to do this black line through my photos. Its random, shows up both mostly horizontal, but have seen a few vertical ones. Sometimes it will happen and sometimes it will be fine. Anyone seen this before? I cannot figure it out for the life of me. Do you think there is something wrong with my shutter?

My camera hardly has as much use on it. I use my camera around once a year. I am severly upset.

I have a Canon 6D. I also was using 3 different lenses.

Re: Why is this happening?

Waddizzle — Mon, 29 May 2017 12:00:02 GMT

Let's hope it is something other than a failing shutter. Were you using a flash?

The 6D cannot compensate for flickering light emitted by fluorescent and solid state lighting, either. But, I have never seen it look that bad before.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:28:37 GMT

I was using a flash, and the flash as well was causing me issues by not firing in sync with the camera, however would it really cause random lines throughout the images? If it missed fired, I would think the images would just be dark. The last image I shared was actually a miss fire and I jacked up the exposer in lightroom so you can see what it was doing. However, the ring shots, was a fairly nice light room (same room as the other picture just mid-day and not night) and had no issues with miss fires at that point. Also sometimes the flash did not even go off. I couldnt tell you what images those were though. Its not like flash was going off more then once to get the weird lines? Also I would think if it was a a broken shutter, it would be in the same spot every time? It shifts a little bit, but does tend to keep on the bottom. Maybe they are getting stuck?? :[

Anyone know canon's general pricing to get your camera looked at?

Re: Why is this happening?

Waddizzle — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:37:15 GMT

Bad shutters tend to be sharper lines. I suspect that you're having an issue with your flash. What type of flash is it? It may not be set properly, or not fully recharged between shots.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:46:38 GMT

It's just weird because we never really had issues with the flash before like this. I did try flipping through almost every setting, when I was getting really frustrated. I am becoming more and more convinced its the flash. Which is great!...in a way....I rather it be that then having to get my shutters replaced haha. I can handle getting a new, better flash.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:54:32 GMT

I have an event I am going to next weekend where I can take some really nice pictures outside. It will be my own thing, so I can test things out. If it still does it without the flash, I guess we will have my answer. I will update this thread with what I find out in case someone needs.

I just remembered.

This was happening for video as well.....

You can view it here:

https://www.facebook.com/SarahNMead/videos/vb.1301922652/10212964394526884/?type=2&theater&notif_t=video_processed&notif_id=1496066057146487

Re: Why is this happening?

ScottyP — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:56:30 GMT

I had something similar once with my 6d and a 3rd party speedlite. Actually the problem wasn't with either. The flash had slid backwards in the hot shoe, just a fraction of an inch so you wouldn't notice. It was enough to disturb the contact between the pins on the flash and the camera and I was getting dark lines like that.

I pushed it forward and locked it and it and it went away.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:58:49 GMT

Thats incrediblely frustrating....

Did you know if it cause the line through the video as well?

Re: Why is this happening?

Waddizzle — Mon, 29 May 2017 14:25:55 GMT

@ScottyP wrote:
I had something similar once with my 6d and a 3rd party speedlite. Actually the problem wasn't with either. The flash had slid backwards in the hot shoe, just a fraction of an inch so you wouldn't notice. It was enough to disturb the contact between the pins on the flash and the camera and I was getting dark lines like that.

I pushed it forward and locked it and it and it went away.

Didn't the flash have a locking slider on the mount? My Canon 600EX has one, so I would assume other speedlites would, too.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Mon, 29 May 2017 14:31:30 GMT

Mine does. I make sure its tight and doesn't move as well. My other camera friends are telling me thought its most likely not a flash issue if its doing that in the video as well too. (check past post if you had not seen it)

Its not doing it this morning though?? I can't get it to do it again, which is good, but scares me too....

Re: Why is this happening?

Ray-uk — Mon, 29 May 2017 14:33:36 GMT

@Karinia wrote:
Thats incrediblely frustrating....

Did you know if it cause the line through the video as well?

No, if you have similar fault during video then iy has nothing to with the flash and must be a problem with the camera body.

If that was the case then it should also show up when you are doing still photography without flash.

Re: Why is this happening?

TCampbell — Tue, 30 May 2017 14:42:46 GMT

Specifically which flash are you using?

The shape of the issue doesn't match the sort of thing I'd expect to see with a sticky shutter blade - so I don't think that's it. Also, a sticky shutter blade wouldn't show in live video (the shutter opens and remains open the entire time).

When this used to happen in the days of film, we would suspect it was an actual shadow ... e.g. a camera strap had partially covered the flash so it wasn't really giving even lighting... that sort of thing. But I noticed this happens in both horizontal and vertical shots but the shadow always runs in the wide direction. So I doubt it's something so obvious.

I am wondering if possibly the flash was trying to use high-speed sync mode. And I suppose that might actually be the problem (it would certainly be worth checking). If I flash is in high-speed sync mode, then instead of waiting for the shutter to open completely, it fires "pulses" of light as the shutter opens and then closes again. If it misses a pulse of light, then you'd get this sort of issue.

The fact that the band of darkness has "soft" edges does suggest the shutter is in motion when this happens (in other words, in my view this perfectly fits what I would expect to see if one of the "pulses" of light failed during high-speed sync mode.)

But as I look at some of these shots, the ambient lighting suggests that the shutter speed was likely slow enough that high-speed sync mode wouldn't have been needed (of course, that doesn't mean that HSS wasn't enabled anyway -- so I'd check on that.)

I was not able to look at the video you linked (I get a facebook error page when I try to view the link.)

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Tue, 30 May 2017 14:57:24 GMT

Yeah, I turned off public view for the video post since no one seemed to be looking at it. (I do not like to keep things public on my facebook) I have changed it back so you are now able to look at it. I will keep it there.

Here is the link again: https://www.facebook.com/SarahNMead/videos/vb.1301922652/10212964394526884/?type=2&theater

Its definitely not a strap. When you see the video as well, you will know that its also not just something in the way haha....its something far more.

I do not have the flash on me currently so I cannot give you brand and model, but I can tell you its not a top notch one (like $500+). It was about $250ish.

High-speed sync mode, sounds more like what might be happening...however... I was not using the flash when I did the video, so I am not sure why the same problem is presisting in the video. I am so glad I checked the video setting too because I feel like we can get deeper to the problem then just thinking it might be flash syncing problems when it can be more.

I really want to hope its just the flash, and not something mechincally wrong with my body.....Its not an old camera at all. 2014 and used only a handful times a year.

I sent RAWs and the video to Canon this morning. So I am hoping they can give me an answer as well.

Re: Why is this happening?

TCampbell — Tue, 30 May 2017 15:40:17 GMT

Ok, I saw the video. Wow! That's definitely the first time I've seen anything like that. I was particularly puzzled that it was a double-band and it slowly migrates upward.

Can you easily reproduce this problem or is it hit & miss as to whether it happens?

What batttery are you using in the camera?

I ask because it almost looks as if the camera is having a problem when it's reading out the pixels from the sensor. This makes me wonder if there isn't some sort of power-related issue.

Can you easily reproduce it using only original Canon equipment (the Canon battery, not a third party)? Make sure there are no third party accessories attached (e.g. if you have a 3rd party battery-grip, remove it... also remove any 3rd party flash, etc.) and see if you can reproduce the issue when only genuine Canon gear is attached. That may sound strange, but I've seen topics here where someone had an issue with theiir camera... but only when a third party accessory was attached (in their case it was a battery grip).

If you can reproduce it using only original Canon equipment on the camera, then I'd contact Canon support and have the camera evaluated.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Tue, 30 May 2017 16:59:00 GMT

The next morning I tried to reproduce it and I cannot. Which is kinda frustrating since it happened in a middle of a wedding....

I did think, 'maybe its the memory card,' but again, I cant get the problem to reproduce when I thought about that the next morning. On the same memory card too....

I use all authentic canon products. Especially batteries. I only use authentic batteries. I dont need one melting in my camera. The battery that was in there was actually the battery that came with the camera. The only thing that was not canon brand was the flash. I had the flash attached all night, however I could not tell you what photos I had it on or off for. The video I might have had it turned off? Because at that point I was just frustrated and was slowing turning things off/on.

Another thing that kept happening was that I had to turn off and on my camera a ton because it would seem to lock up. I have an event this weekend I planned on bringing my camera too. I am going to play with it and see reproduces again. I will keep the flash off...

This is what the canon rep is saying so far:

"Thank you for your continued correspondence and for supplying the sample images from your EOS 6D camera.

This is very unusual. It is possible to see a banding in video and in still images when shooting under certain gas vapor lights such as fluorescent, or sodium vapor lights. In this case, the light actually cycles on and off at 60 times per second. The camera camera sensor can pick this up when shot at certain shutter speeds. However, usually the results are not as defined as what we see in your video clip. You would typically see a slightly darker band with feathered edges or transition closer to what you sent in the ring shot image. You can view an example of this at the link (http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/photos/articles/eos5ds-eos5dsr-eos5dmarkii/04_eos5ds-eos5dsr-whatsnew-antiflicker.shtml), where there is a sample of a camera not using Anti-flicker technology. Do you recall if there were any special lights being used in the venue; LED's or fluorescents?

The fact that you cannot reproduce this makes it more challenging. Did this occur at the end of a day of shooting where heat could have built up in the camera? Did this happen all day? Did it occur during outdoor shots? Lastly, was the ring shot taken in the same venue and was it taken near a window?

I would suggest trying some additional shots to try and replicate the issue. If you have access to the same room and could take a shot, that would be very helpful. If you can reply to the questions I have asked, we can determine the next step.

We can always send the camera to the service center for evaluation, but I would like to know a bit more information first.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Canon."

The video specs were:

Exposure: 1/197sec at f/2.8

Focal Length: 25mm

ISO 0

If it does end up being the lights.....I have shot at many locations with crappy hotel lighting and other weddings before (With DJ lights like at this event) and never had an issue like these. I guess it will be a very good lesson haha.

Re: Why is this happening?

TCampbell — Tue, 30 May 2017 17:28:51 GMT

One reason I tend to not think it's lights is because it's just to well-defined (the banding issue). If there was just ONE single light flickering, then I might consider that it is caused by lights. But in a venue like this, there are probably numerous lights contributing to the light in the room and they'd all have to flicker at precisely the same rate. I'm not sure that's possible.

But there is another possibility... and that's LED lighting.

Due to the way the diode works, the LED is either "on" (full) or "off" (full)... there is no semi-on state for a diode. It's digital. So to produce a dimmable LED, the diode is technically flickering on & off very fast... and your eye perceives this as being solidly "on" ... but "dim" (you don't notice the flicker). Also since LEDs tend to just go instantly "on" and instantly "off" (the brightness doesn't gradually ramp up and ramp down like it does for other types of lights) then it's possible to get banding. Particularly because when shooting video, your Canon camera uses a "rolling" shutter (it doesn't read the entire sensor at once... it reads the data row by row. So if the light happens to flicker "on" for a few rows and then "off" for a few rows, I can imagine it could produce banding that resembles what you see.

So I suppose if the venue uses dimmable LED lighting... then it might manifest in a condition that looks like what you see in your shots (in which case there isn't much you can do about it other than bring your own lighting.)

I can't be sure if this is what's happened to you... but I suppose it's plausible.

Re: Why is this happening?

kvbarkley — Tue, 30 May 2017 17:34:05 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
But in a venue like this, there are probably numerous lights contributing to the light in the room and they'd all have to flicker at precisely the same rate. I'm not sure that's possible.

It is absolutely possible. They are all connected to the same AC line which will flicker at the same rate and at the same time, though some might be 180 out of phase.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Tue, 30 May 2017 17:39:39 GMT

They might have actually had dim lighting. The lights were dimmed when the recepetion started, however it was not dimmed when I took those ring shots (now that I think about it). hmmm. 😕 well I will update this thread if I have a break through with the Canon Rep.

I would also like to add that my friend was shooting with me. She has a Canon 5D Mark III and had absolutely no issues. Its all really strange...

Re: Why is this happening?

Waddizzle — Tue, 30 May 2017 18:15:59 GMT

@Karinia wrote:
They might have actually had dim lighting. The lights were dimmed when the recepetion started, however it was not dimmed when I took those ring shots (now that I think about it). hmmm. 😕 well I will update this thread if I have a break through with the Canon Rep.

I would also like to add that my friend was shooting with me. She has a Canon 5D Mark III and had absolutely no issues. Its all really strange...

I questioned the lighting in my original post. A 5D Mark III has the ability to compensate for light flicker, while th 6D cannot.

Re: Why is this happening?

Karinia — Tue, 30 May 2017 18:28:47 GMT

Hmmm. That is interesting. Well that sucks, maybe its time to upgrade lol