topic Re: Advice on Upgrade in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Advice on Upgrade

mstu33 — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:54:19 GMT

Hello, I am looking for some professional advice on upgrading my camera. I am currently shooting on a t3i I purchased in 2013. I have a 18-55mm kit lens, 50mm 1.8, 70-300mm Sigma zoom, and a 24-80mm older Canon lens I found at work.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I spent 3 years as a reporter for a community newspaper shooting sports, events, etc with my t3i. Now I work in a marketing and communications position for an international school, and part of my job is taking photos on campus for the web and marketing materials. I am also going to Hawaii in August and would like to take my camera.

I have been looking at the 80D as an upgrade option, but I am also considering the 5D Mark iii or iv, though they are pricey. What are the benefits of the full-frame camera? What would you recommend for my work?

Also, are there any lenses I should invest in for general school photography?

Thanks!!

Re: Advice on Upgrade

diverhank — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 00:46:41 GMT

Advice on upgrade is always really tough...Here are my 2 cents, for what it's worth...

The jump from t3i to 80D is quite a leap technologically and I think you will be pleased...even though, to many, you are better off upgrading your lenses, instead. But that is not what you're asking...so...

If you have been happy with the cropped sensor format - then you're not really missing much. A full frame camera has a larger sensor so the immediate effect is that, for the same lens focal length, the view/picture is 1.6 times wider. With the sensor being larger, generally the full frame picture quality tends to be better than a cropped sensor camera.

I have a 7D Mark II (cropped sensor) and a 5D Mark III (full frame) and I prefer using the 5D Mark III for everything except for taking pictures of wild life where the 7D Mark II enjoys a 1.6x magnification.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

RobertTheFat — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 01:40:07 GMT

@mstu33 wrote:
Hello, I am looking for some professional advice on upgrading my camera. I am currently shooting on a t3i I purchased in 2013. I have a 18-55mm kit lens, 50mm 1.8, 70-300mm Sigma zoom, and a 24-80mm older Canon lens I found at work.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I spent 3 years as a reporter for a community newspaper shooting sports, events, etc with my t3i. Now I work in a marketing and communications position for an international school, and part of my job is taking photos on campus for the web and marketing materials. I am also going to Hawaii in August and would like to take my camera.

I have been looking at the 80D as an upgrade option, but I am also considering the 5D Mark iii or iv, though they are pricey. What are the benefits of the full-frame camera? What would you recommend for my work?

Also, are there any lenses I should invest in for general school photography?

Thanks!!

It might help if we had a look at your Web site, assuming it's already up and running. Seeing what kind of photography you're doing might give us some hints as to how to advise you.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

mstu33 — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 01:44:34 GMT

Sure! Probably the best way to see my current photos is on Facebook. Search Rabun Gap-Nacoochee School.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

ScottyP — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 02:40:10 GMT

If you go full frame your 18-55 general purpose lens cannot be used. I think your other lenses are compatible, though I am not sure about the 70-300 Sigma. In any event with a 5d3, your existing lenses would not be as good as your camera.

If you go full frame will you also also have the budget for some lens upgrades?

looking at your photos on the school's FB page I see a lot of shots taken in dim light. Theaters, plays, speeches, indoor sports. That is a challenge for inexpensive lenses that don't open up to large apertures. I think you need better lenses either way you go with the camera choice. The full frame will give you better image quality than a crop camera in dim light, but you must have some moneyleft in your budget after buying whichever camera you choose to also buy a good lens or two.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

mstu33 — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 02:57:36 GMT

Thanks for your input! I haven't set a budget yet, but looking at lens prices, I probably won't be able to purchase a full frame and high quality lens together.

If I do decide on getting a lens, which would you suggest? I have looked at the 70-200 mm 2.8.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

ScottyP — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 03:03:46 GMT

The 70-200 f/2.8 L IS 2 is a lovely lens. A crop camera gives it a narrower field of view, giving the appearance of being 1.6x "more telephoto" than what you see on full frame, but you are already used to that from your T3i. It will be good for sports and portraits when you have some room to step back.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

RobertTheFat — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 06:31:26 GMT

@mstu33 wrote:
Thanks for your input! I haven't set a budget yet, but looking at lens prices, I probably won't be able to purchase a full frame and high quality lens together.

If I do decide on getting a lens, which would you suggest? I have looked at the 70-200 mm 2.8.

I think you're going to conclude at some point that you need a 5D (Mark III or Mark IV) for its low-light capability if for no other reason. So I guess I'd recommend that you buy only lenses that are full-frame compatible (i.e., EF rather than EF-S if you're buying Canon). The 70-200 f/2.8 is a fine lens that many of us in this forum have; be sure to get the IS II version.

Since you're buying equipment for a school, try to take advantage of educational discounts. Those are often available, but rarely well advertised. It never hurts to ask; and because some of the biggest and best stores sell on-line, it's not much of a pain to shop around. And at a private prep school, alumni can be a resource. If you have any who are professional photographers, maybe they can advise you or even throw some used equipment your way.

And look at your students as potential assistants at events, etc, if you're not already doing so. Prep school students are typically smart and highly motivated, and some of them are certain to be interested in photography. I have some knowledge of the subject: my daughter and her husband met as students at a private prep school.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

Waddizzle — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 15:51:51 GMT

@mstu33 wrote:
Thanks for your input! I haven't set a budget yet, but looking at lens prices, I probably won't be able to purchase a full frame and high quality lens together.

If I do decide on getting a lens, which would you suggest? I have looked at the 70-200 mm 2.8.

You might swing if you purchased a 6D full frame camera body, instead of a 5D Series camera body. For the type of photography that you're doing, the 6D can probably do everything that you need just as well as a 5D Series camera.

If you go for a full frame body, then I recommend that you look to purcahse a lens to replace your EF-S 18-55mm wide angle lens, which would not mount properly on a full frame body. I would recommend the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM, but if you're limited to just one high quality lens, then I would recommend a faster lens, or perhaps even a fast wide angle prime [24mm or 35mm] to stay within your budget.

Re: Advice on Upgrade

ebiggs1 — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 17:10:03 GMT

"What are the benefits of the full-frame camera?"

For your situation....none. Full frame is just a word. Crop sensor is also just a term that was made up to identify something. That's all. All cameras, any camera should be judged on its entire spec package.

An 80D would work well for you just as a 6D or a 5D Mk IV will. You are really let down by your lens package. Purchasing any of these wonderful new cameras should include an upgrade in lenses. The lens makes the photo, not the camera.

I am not familiar with a Canon 24-80mm? There was a ef 24-85mm but it is obsolete now. The only lens you have that I would take along with a new camera is the 50mil and I wouldn't like doing that! A top of the line lens will breath new life in that T3i, too, consider that. Perhaps a new lens should be your first upgrade?

Re: Advice on Upgrade

Waddizzle — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 17:39:06 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"What are the benefits of the full-frame camera?"

For your situation....none. Full frame is just a word. Crop sensor is also just a term that was made up to identify something. That's all. All cameras, any camera should be judged on its entire spec package.

An 80D would work well for you just as a 6D or a 5D Mk IV will. You are really let down by your lens package. Purchasing any of these wonderful new cameras should include an upgrade in lenses. The lens makes the photo, not the camera.

I am not familiar with a Canon 24-80mm? There was a ef 24-85mm but it is obsolete now. The only lens you have that I would take along with a new camera is the 50mil and I wouldn't like doing that! A top of the line lens will breath new life in that T3i, too, consider that. Perhaps a new lens should be your first upgrade?

If you keep your T3i, then a good lens upgrade path might look like this:

EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM [or the EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM ] [or the EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM]

430EX III-RT

Lightroom 6

Re: Advice on Upgrade

amfoto1 — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 04:36:19 GMT

Some advantages/disadvantages of full frame and APS-C "crop" cameras are:

- Full frame generally offers better low light/high ISO performance. FF image usually show less image noise because the much larger sensor is less crowded, making for less heat and crosstalk, both of which tend to cause noise.

- Less magnification needed for enlargements with FF cameras, as well as larger pixel sites capable of capturing more fine detail will generally make full frame a better choice for really big prints. Up to about 13x19" it will not be very apparent, but any larger than that you'll likel start to see some differences. If you never print large, or if you never print at all, only share images online or as email attachments, the differences won't be apparent. But if you do print big (or heavily crop), it will be more obvious.

- Full frame cameras allow wide angle lenses to be truly wide. But they also demand longer telephotos which will be a lot bigger, heavier and considerably more expensive.

- Full frame offers a bit more control over depth of field. DoF doesn't actually change from one sensor format to the next... However, because when using FF we need to either move closer or use longer focal length lenses (both of which do directly effect depth of field), larger aperturess appear to give stronger blur effects. At the other extreme, because FF are a little less susceptible to diffraction, somewhat smaller apertures are possible too. The difference is about a stop's worth, at each extreme. Also, FF cameras often seem to give smoother gradations (less "banding"), which can make the transitions from sharp to blurred appear "smoother".

- A disadvantage is simply that full frame cameras require full frame lenses. That gives you a little less choice. I'd guesstimate about 1/4 of Canon's lens line-up are "crop only". Also, because they need to produce a larger image circle to fully cover the bigger sensor, full frame capable lenses are necessarily larger, heavier and typically more expensive. Of your current lenses, only one (the 18-55mm) appears to be a "crop only" lens that would definitely need to be replaced, if you choose to go with a full frame camera model. But you probably use the EF 50/1.8 as a short telephoto/portrait lens now, and might need to replace that with an 85/1.8 for similar purpose... Or if you frequently use the 300mm end of your tele-zoom you will need a more powerful telephoto of some sort. I hesitate to make more specific lens recommendations, because we all have our own likes and dislikes. For example, I use a 24-70/2.8 lens that might be similar to your mid-range zoom, but when shooting portraits I like it best on a crop-sensor camera. On FF it just seems a little "short" for portraits (I mostly use 85/1.8 and 135/2... or if I need a zoom a 70-200mm).

- APS-C cameras have a "free 1.6X teleconverter" effect, making any lens behave as if it's 1.6X longer focal length without the light loss "penalty" such as is inherent in an actual teleconverter. This is great for telephoto work... but not so much for wide angle shooting. Many "crop only" lenses offer particularly wide angles of view, for this reason.

For your primary stated purposes, a high quality crop-sensor camera such as the 80D would likely be more than adequate. You would be able to make excellent images to illustrate marketing materials and certainly for online uses. However, for some other things you may prefer full frame... Personally I use both formats: Crop cameras for sports & wildlife... Full frame for portraits, landscapes, architecture. I've used both for macro and close-up work.

Are you also shooting the videos on your school's website? Most Canon DSLRs are capable of video, but there may be some minor differences that you should research and compare. There's more of a difference when it comes to lenses for video work, depending upon the techniques you use. For example, STM lenses are quieter and smoother focusing and preferred for video. However, several recently introduced lenses use a new "Nano USM" form of focus drive that's not only faster than STM (better for any sort of action photography), but also are optimized for video work. One of those is the EF-S 18-135mm IS USM that's often found in kit with the 80D. Also, Canon is offering a PZ-E1 Power Zoom module especially for that "crop only" lens, that videographers might appreciate. (Two other "Nano USM" lenses are full frame capable: EF 24-105mm f4 IS USM "Mark II" and the EF 70-300mm IS USM III... There isn't a power zoom module made for them and Canon doesn't promote these for video in the same way, but I suspec they'd have the same benefits as the new 18-135mm.)

Hope this helps with your decision!

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
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