topic Re: sports photography with the 7d. in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

sports photography with the 7d.

Stew9 — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:44:55 GMT

I am new to the 7d and canon all together. I am trying to take pictures of my sons baseball games and I cannot get the bat or ball to be clear. I want to be able to see the seams of the ball and the name on the bat. However I have to admit I am a little intimaidated by the 7d as I am not a professional by any means but wanted to good camera, now I am wondering if I made the right choice since I am a little confused.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Skirball — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:53:16 GMT

If you really want to completely freeze the action of the bat and ball you need a fast shutter speed. I'd say at least 1/1000, and probably 1/2000 just to be safe. If you’re not very experienced in Photography then I’d use the Tv setting and set the shutter speed. If it’s sunny out you can get about 1/1600 at a ISO 400 and f/8. So if you’re shooting in Tv, set the shutter speed to 1/1600, the ISO to 400 and the camera will set the aperture to get the correct exposure. Turn it to manual focus (on the lens) and set the focus for where the ball and bat are (hint: use auto-focus to lock on the batter, switch to manual, and adjust if necessary).

If there’s not enough sun the camera is going to open up the aperture, which shrinks the area that’s in focus. Although it can look very nice, if the area in focus is too ‘shallow’ then you’re not going to get your shot.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Skirball — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:55:03 GMT

Also, you mentioned just getting the 7D. Not to push you into buyers remorse, but you got a lot of camera for a beginner. It's fine if you can afford it, and the 7D is a great camera, but I feel like salemen and the internet push people into getting much more camera than they need. A rebel could do everything I described above just as well as the 7D.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

7D5D — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:28:38 GMT

Stew9,

No doubt the 7D is a lot of camera and is primarily aimed at sports and wildlife photographers. You have a great camera and probably got a great deal. Enjoy your new camera and don't allow it to overwhelm you. Taking great photos is about technic and skill, your camera is just a tool. Keep things simple, practice and experiment, follow forums like this, and maybe join a local photography club or take a course. There are a ton of how to videos and books. Hang in there and you will get some great photos of your son's games. BTW, I actually like blurred balls and bats, it shows motion.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

JoelS — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:38:05 GMT

The 7D should be a great camera for sports photography. That's the main reason I purchased mine.

Here are some of my camera setting to give you an idea where I normally start:

Lens 70-200mm, Tv mode, shutter priority AE, 1/1000sec. or higher to freeze action, ISO 400 or higher, AI servo mode, high speed burst (7 frame sec), spot metering.

This works well for daylight conditions, but I'll adjust as needed. The 7D is a fast focusing camera, but you may want to use a monopod and manually focus on your subject before you take the pictures. Then when you're ready to capture the action, hold the shutter down for 6 frames or more at a time. I usually take a lot of pictures just to come up with a few good shots, but practice helps. Have fun with your 7D

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

cicopo — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:10:48 GMT

I think you made a good choice thanks to it's great AF system & the Quick Control dial on the back The learning curve isn't that different between any of them when it's a first DSLR. Also agree with the recommendations including the monopod if the camera starts getting too heavy to have full control of while shooting. What lens are you using?

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

LucaDianaPhoto — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:41:59 GMT

Don't be afraid of the 7D, it's a camera that gives a lot but take that as an incentive to learn. Subscribe to a few magazines (like Popular Photography), buy some books and learn how to use it properly.

I've got a lot of skiing photos published and all taken with the 7D, none of them could be taken with my old 5D Mark II or even my new 5D Mark III, that's why I'm keeping both. If you're looking for speed the 7D delivers.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

fwgj — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 02:27:43 GMT

Stew9,

I'm an amateur sports photographer myself, shooting with a 50D since 2008 and a 7D since 2010. Like an earlier poster, I am curious what glass (lenses) you are using. When I started, I got mediocre results with "kit" glass during the day and absolute garbage at night. I had to invest in higher quality f/2.8 lenses for nighttime varsity football and indoor track. If you are shooting daytime baseball, your results may differ, but knowing what lenses you are using would help frame any advice I could give.

Here are a few samples of recent daytime and indoor shots I have on my SkyDrive to show what a 7D is capable of. All shot with 7D and 70-200mm f/2.8 II either with or without 1.4X Extender II. I believe I used a polarizing filter on the outdoor Penn Relay shots as well.

http://sdrv.ms/10awSsY

http://sdrv.ms/12EzQHI

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Stew9 — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 03:50:38 GMT

I am using an ef 70-300 mm f/4-5.6 is usm. I am willing to learn but I feel like it's gonna take me forever. I looked into an online course to help me. I had a sony A350 prior to this and it took good photos but I heard this canon was much better with sports photography. And my sony had the settings and so I didn't have to really set too much. So, this I feel like I'm starting over 🙂

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

amfoto1 — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 05:10:02 GMT

The 7D is not an ideal camera for a beginner, but if you are determined and persevere you can learn to use it.

7D is Canon's most pro-oriented APS-C format camera. What that means is that the designers sort of assume most buyers will be experienced and fairly advanced... will want to make all their own settings all the way from before taking the shot to finishing the images on their computer in post-production, will need access to a lot of "tweaks" to fine tune the camera for special situations and can deal with a lot of additional complexity, aren't looking for a lot of automation.

I am not knocking 7D at all... In fact I've been shooting with a pair of them for nearly four years now and they are an excellent sports/action camera.... for an experienced user. But, even with experience, there is a whole additional layer of complexity in the 7D's AF system. It was brand new four years ago and there was little info from Canon or other users, so it took a while to to learn to use it well. I almost gave up and went back to the 50Ds I'd used previously. Today there is more 7D-specific support and tutorials out there... folks have figured out what works in different situations and share their experiences on forums and websites, so now it's easier to get up to speed using the camera (and avoiding some of the mistakes!).

But, once learned, 7D can really do you proud. Just don't look for the point n shoot automation of some of the other models. It ain't there. Instead you get user programmable custom profiles and assignable buttons, to tailor the camera to your own uses (assuming you know what you are doing).

To start, I would encourage you to learn to use the camera as simply as possible. Eventually you can experiment with some of the more advanced settings and see what works and what doesn't, a little at a time. With moving subjects, you generally need to use AI Servo focus mode (an exception is noted below). I'd suggest selecting only the center AF point and just working to keep that on the point right where you want the lens to focus.

Baseballs and bats move very quickly when a batter is swinging, so you are going to need a very fast shutter speed if you really want to freeze the action to the point you can see the seams on the ball and logo on the bat (which, if you think about it, is very unrealistic). I would try for 1/2000 or even faster shutter speed. Don't hesitate to use ISO 800 in sunlight. The 7D can handle it well. In shade, use ISO 1600 or possibly even higher, except you might need to apply some noise reduction to images later.You also might try some slower shutter speeds so that there is some motion blur from the ball and bat... that sometimes looks more "real". Experiment with different shutter speeds (setting the ISO and aperture as needed to accomodate the shutter speed).

Go to this web page and read about Back Button Focusing. It's a technique many sports photographers use (and one reason so many sports photogs use Canon). What you do with this technique is start focus tracking your subject and follow them for a while, concentrating on keeping the AF point right where you want the camera to focus, and then take the shot (or repeated shots) at the peak moment of action. Keep both your eyes open so that you have an idea what's happening outside the viewfinder area, but keep one eye glued to the viewfinder.

It's not specific to the 7D, but you would also do well to view this video on Youtube posted by B&H Photo. It's the first of three half hour videos about the Canon AF systems. Watch all three.

I'd also encourage you to get "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. It's an excellent book that will be a big help, learning to handle many situations with a fairly advanced camera... not just exposure but many other related factors as well. This is not specific to 7D or Canon for that matter, so I'd also suggest you get one of the guide books specific to the camera, to help you learn to use it well more easily and quickly. There are a number of different 7D guide books on Amazon. Over the years I've gotten various guide books written by Charlotte Lowrie, David Busch and Michael Guncheon, and feel comfortable recommending any of those. Others may be good too, so spend some time reading reviews.

Online classes might help, but a local class may be better if you can find one in your area. Maybe it's just me, but somehow an actual class and instructor always seems to make learnin' come easier.

In good light your zoom lens should be fine for your purposes. Remove any filter and use a lens hood with it. It is a good idea, as previous suggested, to stop down a bit to around f8. This gives greater depth of field, which can help cover some minor focus error.

7D can shoot at 8 frames per second. Use that if you wish... however don't become dependent upon it. You still need to time your shots if you want to catch that fraction of a second when a ball and bat come together. You will have a lot of misses no matter what camera you are using... can't be helped. Everything is moving so fast.

Using Canon cameras pretty simply as described above, the autofocus systems of 7D can track a base runner and even faster subjects quite well. But tricks such as pre-focusing (as someone suggested above) migtht be necessary with extremely fast movement such as a pitched ball and bat swing. In this case, you might want to switch back to One Shot mode (usually used for stationary subjects only, but when pre-focusing on a player at bat, you can treat them as if they were stationary).

Actually, most Canon cameras used this way.... AI Servo, center AF point only, Back Button Focusing.... are quite capable of capturing fast moving action. I used 50D and before them 30D with a lot of success. 7D are better, but not hugely when used this way. It's the difference between me getting acceptible focus on 92% of my shots with 30D, 94% with 50D and around 96 or 97% with 7D. 60D, T4i, T5i all have AF system that's quite similar to my 50Ds. If you find 7D overwhelming, don't hesitate to "downgrade" to an easier-to-use model, with more automated settings to help inexperienced users (or people who simply don't want to learn all the details of using a more sophisticated, pro-oriented camera).

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

travischance — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 13:04:37 GMT

Yes, the 7D is a great "prosumer" camera that was designed & marketed for action. I've owned them in the past & they did great when shooting sporting events (they were my bread & butter until I upgraded to Mark IV's).

To freeze the player & ball is very simple; set your camera into Shutter Priority Mode (TV) at a minimum of 1/500 second. Depending upon your lens & available light, the camera may "stop" the lens down from it's maximum aperture to achieve that shutter speed. Depending upon your level of expertise, I'd also recommend placing your camera in "Auto ISO". If your are moving up & down the field or the sun is moving in & out of the clouds, the ISO will definitely change throughout the day.

By setting the shutter speed & using auto ISO, the camera will select the aperture required. Personally, I'm not a fan of shutter priority but I'm a sports shooter with experience. But using these settings will get you started. I hope this helps!

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

cicopo — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:25:55 GMT

There is a learning curve to the AF compared to most of Canon's other DSLR's BUT it has been recommended that for this situation it be set to Manual Focus & I agree with that. As for Sport mode on all the cameras that have it well it's a handy feature but it's a compromise because it has no idea of what sport you're shooting nor the intentions of the photographer. The cameras had to capture the scene in the same way the 7D will but the operator now has full control over how the scene is captured.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Stew9 — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:32:19 GMT

Thank you everyone for your time and great advice. Very much appreciate it!

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

amfoto1 — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:12:23 GMT

Using AF, Back Button Focusing, and Single Point along with AI Servo is very similar to manual focusing - puts the photograhper back in command - except it's far faster and much more accurate than you or I would ever be able to do consistently with manual focus. Heck, I shot with strictly manual focus gear for more than 20 years... including a lot of sports. Since converting to the Canon system in 2001 and learning to use its AF effectively in various situations, I get a much, much higher percentage of "keepers" than I ever could manage with manual focus.

IMO, learn to use the technology to your advantage... don't just defeat it. Learning Back Button Focusing and Single Point and AI Servo makes all the difference in the world and puts the photographer in charge of AF, rather than leaving it up to the camera to choose.

Also, today's cameras.... especially crop sensor DSLRs... simply are not very manual focus friendly. Smaller viewfinders, no manual focus indicators such as split image and microdiaprism rangefinders, and other factors make manual focus more difficult with a modern camera. With stationary subjects you can switch to Live View, use the rear LCD, focus manually or with contrast detection and zoom in to check focus... and it's highly accurate. But this isn't practical or possible when shooting sports/action. So, again, my vote would be to learn to use the AF system.

I shot a sporting event on Sunday and am post-processing the images right now. As of now I've edited the first 1000, out of around 2700. I always mark my missed focus shots in Lightroom with a "rejected" flag. So far, out of 1000 I've marked two images for missed focus (I've rejected a whole lot more for other reasons... bad timing or closed eyes or lousy composition, poor exposure, etc.). I know there will be a few more and I also recall a couple images that were questionable... focus isn't perfect but is good enough to be usable for smaller prints. I was shooting with a pair of 7Ds - mostly using the simple method I recommended above - and lenses were 24-70/2.8, 70-200/4 IS and 300/4 IS. I wouldn't expect anywhere near such consistent focus accuracy with manual focus, so I generally don't recommend it for sports (I do use MF for other things... landscapes, macro, some portraiture, etc.). But my point is that I challenge anyone to get close to that level of consistency manual focusing. I know I couldn't, and I was **bleep** good and fast with MF.

A key reason I wouldn't use MF shooting a baseball game is that, while it might work okay for the pre-focus situation of the batter at the plate, chances are you're going to see other action around the field and will want to quickly change your point of focus. With the right lenses and AF techniques on 7D, this can be done nearly instantaneously. There is no way you or I could MF fast enough and we also wouldn't have time to switch AF back on. We'd miss a lot of opportunities trying to use MF.

Another consideration... if you are using a zoom, the vast majority today are "varifocal". This means the lens does not maintain focus when the focal length is changed. Back in the good/bad old days of film and manual focus, more zooms were "parfocal" design... maintaining focus when zoomed. But with AF cameras, it's not necessary and varifocal designs are less expensive and easier to correct for higher image quality... might be smaller and lighter, too. So with today's zoom lenses, with any change in focal length you need to refocus. If using AI Servo autofocus, this is happening continuously and automatically. I don't know about you, but when I'm working with a zoom I am constantly changing the focal length and image composition. So this is another reason I'll keep using AF.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Corneliussen — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 21:28:54 GMT

I had a EOS 30D recently stolen and thought I would upgrad to the 7D. My kids play a lot of sports and this is what I mainly use the camera for. The 7D seems so much different and there is not a sports mode on it. That is all I use to shoot in. I also have the EOS Rebel SR1 are you saying that I can take just as good of sports pictures with this camera with less headache? Do you know what is the largest lens I could put on the rebel for a sports shot?

Thank you

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Corneliussen — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 21:30:49 GMT

This is gonna sound dumb. But how do I change shutter speed? Trying to take action shots with the 7D and it will only take one shot at a time.

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Corneliussen — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 21:33:14 GMT

I have a 7D with 55-250 lens. Trying to take daytime baseball shots. Any advice would help I know nothing about this camera.

Thank you!!

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

cicopo — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:22:55 GMT

You set the camera to Tv mode to control shutter speeds. Using the manual set the AF to AI Servo & the drive to multiple shot mode & if I remember correctly there is 2 selectable settings so you can hive High (more frames per second) & low (less frames per second but more than single shot mode)

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

amfoto1 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 01:14:04 GMT

You would probably get more responses if you started a new thread, rather than tagging onto this post from November of last year.

Did you read the info above? It pretty much tells you how to use 7D to shoot sports.

As mentioned before, 7D is sort of pro-oriented.... It doesn't have the highly automated "easy" modes that some of the less expensive models do. The camera's designers appear to have assumed that most 7D buyers would be fairly experienced photographers who had little need for the extra automation. .

Regarding changing the drive mode.... I presume you got a manual with tthe 7D. If not, you can download one for free on the Canon website. Page 97 of the manual tells you how to change the drive mode from single shot to low speed continuous (about 3 frames per second) or high speed continous (about 8 fps). The same button and dial combo also give access to a 2 second self timer and a 10 second self timer.

For sports photography there are two primary considerations.... First, do you want to freeze the action, or do you want there to be some blur reflecting the movement? The shutter speed you select is the deciding factor. A slow shutter speed will allow blur, while a fast shutter speed freezes everything. 7D can shoot at up to 1/8000 second, but to freeze a ball in flight or a bat in a swing, you will probably be able to accomplish that with 1/1600, 1/2000 or so. Either set the camera to Tv or to M exposure mode, then select the necessary shutter speed. Tv is an auto exposure mode, where you select the shutter speed and the camera chooses an appropriate aperture. M is the camera's manual exposure mode, where you have to set both the shutter speed and the aperture. You will probably also need to adjust the ISO in either of those exposure modes, to get in the range allowed by your lens and the camera.

In either Tv or M exposure mode, you change the shutter speed with the top dial, right behind the shutter release button. To change the ISO, you press the ISO button first, then use the same top dial to select an ISO.

The other big consideration shooting sports is tracking moving subjects with the Auto Focus, such as a runner heading for home base. You need to set the camera to AI Servo, which is a focus mode designed for this purpose. To keep it simple, I suggest you also select a single AF point and keep that right on your subject while tracking, with the shutter button half-pressed so that AF operates continuously . If yours is the original 55-250mm lens, it isn't very fast focusing. The newer "STM" version is better, but still not as fast focusing as a USM lens such as the Canon 70-200 and 100-400 zooms. In a sense, you have "hobbled" a fast camera with a slower lens.

There are some other ways to set this up and some enhancements you can use when you get more comfortable and experienced with the camera. But the above should get you started.

I have to reiterate what I wrote early in respose to the previous poster.... Spend some time studying the manual to learn the controls of the camera. Besides the lack of a lot of highly automated stuff that most experienced photographers don't use, it's really much like any other Canon or, for that matter, DSLRs in general. It will seem overwhelming at first, so learn a little at a time.

You also might want to go to Amazon and get a guide book for the 7D. I also highly recommend the book "Understanding Exposure", by Bryan Peterson.

With some study and practice, you can learn to use the 7D and get proficient with it. If instead you really just want to pick up the camera, turn a single dial to some highly automated mode, and start taking snapshots, well - to be rather blunt - the 7D might be the wrong camera for you. A 60D or one of the Rebel series cameras would be an easier model to use, for example.

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM

Re: sports photography with the 7d.

Corneliussen — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 03:27:44 GMT

Thank you for the helpful advice. I agree about the post, I didn't realize I was on this feed.